What objection can there be to solving simple poverty in a market friendly manner?

[danielpalos]

Name the corporation that pays $7 bucks an hour and I will link the job boards proving you are a liar .

It was a generalization not an exact statement. If we went by your standard; right wingers have nothing but fallacy not Any valid arguments.

 

[danielpalos]

We need a minimum wage of $1,999 an hour, to qualify for food stamps would be $1,999 an hour think of all the foreign products people could buy. A take over of private property by the government..


A dream come true we would all be rich.

Simply making stuff up and expecting to get paid for it? Are you a CEO of a "successful firm"?

From 1978 to 2018, CEO compensation grew by 1,007.5% (940.3% under the options-realized measure), far outstripping S&P stock market growth (706.7%) and the wage growth of very high earners (339.2%). In contrast, wages for the typical worker grew by just 11.9%.

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978: Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

The latest report in EPI’s annual series analyzing current and long-term trends in CEO compensation.

www.epi.org

 

[Blues Man]

Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Depends. How much value do they add?

That’s what I’m asking

If you add less than $7/hr in value, paying $7 is too much.

What would an example be of a job that is valued at less than $7 an hour. Note we are talking about a corporation making millions in profit

Stuffing greasy french fries into paper bags

For perspective we are talking about somebody standing in a kitchen serving people food for 8 hours a day. Walking with about $50 a day, $250 a week, $1000 a month, $12,000 a year. That’s what this full time employee will have to support themselves. Meanwhile the restaurant is making millions. Sound good to you?

Since when is any job wage based on what it costs for a person to support himself?

And FYI no single franchised fast food store makes millions a year.

In fact most franchise owners make less than 100K a year

And a person sells his labor to an employer and that labor is only worth what the market will pay for it. If a person wants to get more for the labor he is selling then he has to make his labor worth more by increasing its value to an employer.

This is what entry level jobs are for.

Your first question is at the crux of the debate. The concept of a living wage is that if a person is working full time then that time should be compensated enough for them to support themselves without the need of welfare.

Why should a salary be based on anything but the value of the labor to the employer or to the market in general?

As a person asking another for employment your labor is your product and you are asking an employer to buy that product at either and hourly wage or a salary.

What the person who is selling his labor pays for rent is not part of the equation nor should it be.

 

[danielpalos]

No--not a cost savings at all---------it would only grow the welfare class and
Since anything that the government subsidizes grows---more would be doing drugs, collecting welfare, instead of contributing.

Time for you to grow up and support yourself-------

Don't really believe in Capitalism? Raise wages if you want people to work.

 

[Wyatt earp]

They promote business friendly policies and the reduction of government.

How do they do that with poverty wages that may require those actually employed to seek social services and that form of Big Government nanny-Statism? Are you sure you are simply being a right winger about this? Raising the minimum wage can actually help lower the cost of Government while generating more tax revenue in the process.

I agree that a fully employed person should be making a living wage for the area they live in. And for places that don't do that I would absolutely support raising the min wage.

gee----I started babysitting ----saturday nites---for 50 cents per hour at age 14. I was
DESPERATE for a job of ANY KIND. If those people who hired me had to pay me 15 dollars per hour-------it wouldn't happen and I would not have a dime. Believe it or not --MY DESPERATION for a job was for the sake of ------saving for college---paying for the
SAT exams-----and........ buying a bit of clothing from the "AS IS" and "seconds" and
''damaged" store up the block. All of my four brothers went to college (like me) on
scholarship, loans and minimum wage jobs. (at 19 I got a job as a clerk type thing in
a hospital at a WOPPING 175 per hour. NOT ALL WORKING PEOPLE CAN GET A JOB THAT PAYS FOR A HOUSE AND A CAR five kids, AND WEEKLY TRIPS TO THE HAIR SALON. The "system" cannot support it. AOC cannot "make ends meet" on 175 thousand dollars per year. ---------

Sorry, I'm not talking about people paying neighborhood kids cash for babysitting. I'm talking about functioning businesses that hire full time employees. Sorry if I was confusing

OK----at age 18, I had a minimum wage job in a large department store----1.25 per hour----------I worked 20 hours per week ---senior year in High School. I NEEDED that one too.
Employees get around that one by hiring PART TIME ONLY

These kinds of jobs are called entry level jobs for a reason. They give young people a chance to enter the work force. At 14 I was a waitress for 50 cents an hour. I was overjoyed to get a raise to 75 cents an hour. There are no more entry level jobs. All jobs are expected to pay enough to support a family of four.

This change happened because of immigration. Adult immigrants started taking those entry level jobs. They didn't need money for school or go to a movie. They weren't saving for that first car. They had kids in school themselves. They have medical issues. They have spouses and sick parents.

That's how minimum wage got out of control.

Simple question. Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Yes. Of course. Entry level jobs are commonly not worth more than seven dollars an hour. Give the job to a teen who is just learning to show up on time.

Labor has a value. Each job is worth a dollar amount notwithstanding the corporation making millions of dollars an hour. If the job is worth 7 bucks an hour that's what it pays.

Interesting... and what would be an example of a job worth $7 an hour?

Massage Jenifer Aniston?

 

[danielpalos]

Yes. Of course. Entry level jobs are commonly not worth more than seven dollars an hour. Give the job to a teen who is just learning to show up on time.

Labor has a value. Each job is worth a dollar amount notwithstanding the corporation making millions of dollars an hour. If the job is worth 7 bucks an hour that's what it pays.

Neither are CEO jobs who's CEO's have had a bailout. Yet, CEO pay beats inflation by several orders of magnitude all the time.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Name the corporation that pays $7 bucks an hour and I will link the job boards proving you are a liar .

It was a generalization not an exact statement. If we went by your standard; right wingers have nothing but fallacy not Any valid arguments.

My standards are facts, you just post word salad

 

[Wyatt earp]

Yes. Of course. Entry level jobs are commonly not worth more than seven dollars an hour. Give the job to a teen who is just learning to show up on time.

Labor has a value. Each job is worth a dollar amount notwithstanding the corporation making millions of dollars an hour. If the job is worth 7 bucks an hour that's what it pays.

Neither are CEO jobs who's CEO's have had a bailout. Yet, CEO pay beats inflation by several orders of magnitude all the time.

Sooooooooooooo

 

[danielpalos]

Simple question. Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Simple question. If a potential employee agrees to work for $7 an hour, why shouldn't they be able to do that?

Because right wingers complain about taxes for social services. We have statutory minimum wages because Capitalism doesn't work as advertised. Tell right wingers to start loving the taxes they pay for our endless war on poverty merely so the Rich corporations can enjoy higher profits while having right wingers pay for it via taxes for social services. Or, they should just admit they are nothing but ignorant hypocrites like usual.

 

[Slade3200]

Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Depends. How much value do they add?

That’s what I’m asking

If you add less than $7/hr in value, paying $7 is too much.

What would an example be of a job that is valued at less than $7 an hour. Note we are talking about a corporation making millions in profit

Stuffing greasy french fries into paper bags

For perspective we are talking about somebody standing in a kitchen serving people food for 8 hours a day. Walking with about $50 a day, $250 a week, $1000 a month, $12,000 a year. That’s what this full time employee will have to support themselves. Meanwhile the restaurant is making millions. Sound good to you?

Since when is any job wage based on what it costs for a person to support himself?

And FYI no single franchised fast food store makes millions a year.

In fact most franchise owners make less than 100K a year

And a person sells his labor to an employer and that labor is only worth what the market will pay for it. If a person wants to get more for the labor he is selling then he has to make his labor worth more by increasing its value to an employer.

This is what entry level jobs are for.

Your first question is at the crux of the debate. The concept of a living wage is that if a person is working full time then that time should be compensated enough for them to support themselves without the need of welfare.

Why should a salary be based on anything but the value of the labor to the employer or to the market in general?

As a person asking another for employment your labor is your product and you are asking an employer to buy that product at either and hourly wage or a salary.

What the person who is selling his labor pays for rent is not part of the equation nor should it be.

Who determines what the value of labor is? You don’t think that the cost of living is a factor in the value of labor?

 

[danielpalos]

and if a person refuses that treatment?

Even if they have an income to help them?

Law enforcement would have an ethical and moral basis to enforce the law due to its majestic equality.

“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”

― Anatole France

 

[Papageorgio]

If the government decides they need money, for anything, they will fund it.

We don't have a general malfare clause, it is a general welfare clause. They can only fund anything that promotes and provide for the general welfare, and provide for the common defense.

That has nothing to do with what I said and i stand by what I said, if the government really wants money, they will fund it, one way or the other.

 

[danielpalos]

what fast food company ever got a bailout?

Special pleading?

If you include (forgivable) loans?

Main Street bailout rewards U.S. restaurant chains, firms in rural states

Over two frantic weeks, the U.S. government pledged $350 billion to Main Street businesses across America desperate for cash after coronavirus lockdowns.

www.reuters.com

 

[danielpalos]

For perspective we are talking about somebody standing in a kitchen serving people food for 8 hours a day. Walking with about $50 a day, $250 a week, $1000 a month, $12,000 a year. That’s what this full time employee will have to support themselves. Meanwhile the restaurant is making millions. Sound good to you?

Not when wages should have kept up with inflation.

 

[Blues Man]

Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Depends. How much value do they add?

That’s what I’m asking

If you add less than $7/hr in value, paying $7 is too much.

What would an example be of a job that is valued at less than $7 an hour. Note we are talking about a corporation making millions in profit

Stuffing greasy french fries into paper bags

For perspective we are talking about somebody standing in a kitchen serving people food for 8 hours a day. Walking with about $50 a day, $250 a week, $1000 a month, $12,000 a year. That’s what this full time employee will have to support themselves. Meanwhile the restaurant is making millions. Sound good to you?

Since when is any job wage based on what it costs for a person to support himself?

And FYI no single franchised fast food store makes millions a year.

In fact most franchise owners make less than 100K a year

And a person sells his labor to an employer and that labor is only worth what the market will pay for it. If a person wants to get more for the labor he is selling then he has to make his labor worth more by increasing its value to an employer.

This is what entry level jobs are for.

Your first question is at the crux of the debate. The concept of a living wage is that if a person is working full time then that time should be compensated enough for them to support themselves without the need of welfare.

Why should a salary be based on anything but the value of the labor to the employer or to the market in general?

As a person asking another for employment your labor is your product and you are asking an employer to buy that product at either and hourly wage or a salary.

What the person who is selling his labor pays for rent is not part of the equation nor should it be.

Who determines what the value of labor is? You don’t think that the cost of living is a factor in the value of labor?

No cost of living is not a factor.

And many factors contribute to what a person's labor is worth to an employer.

All products have a cost to bring to the market. The consumer's willingness to pay a price for that product is also relevant.

When the cost of bringing a product to the market exceeds the price a consumer is willing to pay then the business providing that product has 2 choices: Reduce the cost of production or close shop.

The cost of living has no bearing on the what it takes for a business to bring a product to the market but it might have an effect on how many people will pay for that product.

 

[Blues Man]

what fast food company ever got a bailout?

Special pleading?

If you include (forgivable) loans?

Main Street bailout rewards U.S. restaurant chains, firms in rural states

Over two frantic weeks, the U.S. government pledged $350 billion to Main Street businesses across America desperate for cash after coronavirus lockdowns.

www.reuters.com

The government forced those businesses to close so they should be compensated

 

[danielpalos]

So, basically, you're saying nothing when you say "employment is at-will". Employers are not responsible to take care of you if you don't work for them.

UC is a specific program targeted to help specific people after they have been laid off from a job, that's it. Stop pretending that it applies to people who never worked a job, or walked off a job voluntarily, or were fired from a job for cause. It simply does not, and complaining that it's unequal protection under the law that you can't collect it is a FALLACY.

You miss the point with your annoying appeals to ignorance. UC is mostly funded by employers.

UC is only what you claim due to unequal protection of the law. We should have needed no expensive and endless, War on Poverty.

 

[Slade3200]

Do you think a corporation that makes many millions in profits every year should be paying workers $7 an hour?

Depends. How much value do they add?

That’s what I’m asking

If you add less than $7/hr in value, paying $7 is too much.

What would an example be of a job that is valued at less than $7 an hour. Note we are talking about a corporation making millions in profit

Stuffing greasy french fries into paper bags

For perspective we are talking about somebody standing in a kitchen serving people food for 8 hours a day. Walking with about $50 a day, $250 a week, $1000 a month, $12,000 a year. That’s what this full time employee will have to support themselves. Meanwhile the restaurant is making millions. Sound good to you?

Since when is any job wage based on what it costs for a person to support himself?

And FYI no single franchised fast food store makes millions a year.

In fact most franchise owners make less than 100K a year

And a person sells his labor to an employer and that labor is only worth what the market will pay for it. If a person wants to get more for the labor he is selling then he has to make his labor worth more by increasing its value to an employer.

This is what entry level jobs are for.

Your first question is at the crux of the debate. The concept of a living wage is that if a person is working full time then that time should be compensated enough for them to support themselves without the need of welfare.

Why should a salary be based on anything but the value of the labor to the employer or to the market in general?

As a person asking another for employment your labor is your product and you are asking an employer to buy that product at either and hourly wage or a salary.

What the person who is selling his labor pays for rent is not part of the equation nor should it be.

Who determines what the value of labor is? You don’t think that the cost of living is a factor in the value of labor?

No cost of living is not a factor.

And many factors contribute to what a person's labor is worth to an employer.

All products have a cost to bring to the market. The consumer's willingness to pay a price for that product is also relevant.

When the cost of bringing a product to the market exceeds the price a consumer is willing to pay then the business providing that product has 2 choices: Reduce the cost of production or close shop.

The cost of living has no bearing on the what it takes for a business to bring a product to the market but it might have an effect on how many people will pay for that product.

You might want to think that one through a bit longer. The cost of living is directly related to what you just described... the price consumers are willing to pay for products

 

[danielpalos]

And this is why no one takes the left seriously about economics, because they are ignorant of, and refuse to consider, the opportunity cost of taxation. They refuse to consider where the money will come from to create their socialist utopia. LOOK IT UP. Opportunity cost is a real thing, and you have to first STOP capital from circulating by taking it from someone who earned it in order to START it circulating by giving some of it to someone who didn't earn it.

Now, again I ask, where do you think the money will come from that you think will be circulating?

You appeal to ignorance of the multiplier generated by UC, 2. Most other government spending including defense spending only generates a multiplier of .8. And, I have answered this question several times. Only right wingers are annoying enough to continually appeal to ignorance instead of actually reading my mostly one liners or paragraphs, usually at most.

The money could come from general taxes so that anyone, even someone on unemployment can help contribute to that fund. The rest could come from relatively safe bond issues. Our welfare clause is General and must cover any given contingency in the particular manner implied by our Commerce Clause.

 

[danielpalos]

Since when is any job wage based on what it costs for a person to support himself?

And FYI no single franchised fast food store makes millions a year.

In fact most franchise owners make less than 100K a year

And a person sells his labor to an employer and that labor is only worth what the market will pay for it. If a person wants to get more for the labor he is selling then he has to make his labor worth more by increasing its value to an employer.

This is what entry level jobs are for.

Any time right wingers immorally and unethically complain about the cost of social services by holding the point of view you right wingers do.

Labor must be able to afford our first world economy so that a rising tide can lift all boats. That means wages keeping up with inflation.