What Leftism Does to People

[Luissa]

Like I keep telling you, Chuckles. If you want respect, you have to earn it. You can't just demand it. The more you talk, the less respect you deserve. And since I'm not a liberal, I don't feel the need to kiss the ass of anyone who happens to accidentally fall into having the same belief as me on something, with no frigging clue why or ability to explain it. Unlike some, I'm not desperate for approbation and agreement.

Oh, and it's not how you live your life that fills me with contempt. It's really just how incredibly stupid you are (which, admittedly, is often obvious in the shit sandwich that you've made of your life and how blind you are to the causality). You're a walking advertisement for "Men were right: women really ARE only good for sex." Those of us who pride ourselves on having more to offer the world than our coochies are really embarrassed by females like you.

And you just proved my point.
You know nothing about my life, but you seem to be the authority on it. Like I said, if someone does not think the way you do, you look down on them.
My life may not be perfect, but I have worked pretty hard to make my life better for child and me. And I know the only reason why most have such opinions of me is because I am a single mom. You assume I am a whore who lives off the government. To set the record straight, the only thing I receive from the government is health care and an education for my son who is DD. I have received help in the past, but I worked very hard to make it on my own. You being a judgmental bitch won't ever make me feel bad for doing things on my own, and the fact my son gets help from the government because he is DD.

I never claimed to know any more than you blurt out here on the boards. Like you just did. I think you're an ignorant trollop just for the stuff you say. I don't need any more.

Would you like to tell me anything you just said that's supposed to make me view you with less contempt than I do? And it's fairly obvious that I DO make you feel bad, or you wouldn't keep trying so hard to defend yourself.

Is that your goal? To make me feel bad about myself. Kind of seems that way.

I would rather be a whore, than someone who feels like she is better than everyone. It must be lonely in your world of self righteousness.

 

[logical4u]

"Do you have evidence/links of conservatives being as destructive/"disruptive" as the OWS group?"

How 'bout the total catastrophe of the Boooosh administration, or Voodoo economics' ruin of the non rich? How 'bout the lies and hatred spread by the Pub Propaganda Machine? OWS are a bunch of idealistic kids who are screwed by the Bush legacy- and demonized by the PPM, mainly for a few anarchist morons they have discredited themselves...not reported by the PPM- unknown by the dupes...

So.... that would be a big, fat NO, you don't have any evidence of conservatives being as destructive/disruptive as the OWS group. Thank you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Leftism will kill America and the Western World!

Funny. I could have sworn you said that about Islam.

 

[Luissa]

And to play your little game. I could assume you are unsatisfied woman who picked a man due to his bank balance rather than someone you love. And because of this you are lonely woman who has take out her sad existence on people who actually realize life is to short to settle.

 

[Sky Dancer]

To claim that "leftism" turns human beings into something less than human is hateful. Andrew Klavan and the OP ought to be ashamed of themselves.

We could be talking instead about how to solve some real problems in our country, instead of demonizing other citizens.

The OP pretends to want a serious discussion, but does nothing to make sure we have one. Starts flame threads like this.

Take any one citizen, conservative or liberal, and you will find nuances in our beliefs and positions on pending legislation.

I'm sick to death of flame threads like this.

What's important to you? Getting our country on track so that people work again? Or taking pot shots at people protesting.

We have a right of assembly. The OP has value judgments of which citizens the OP deems are worthy of having a voice.

The OP tells posters not to post in this thread unless meeting the OP criteria of "social acceptability".

What a haughty person. No, not a hawty, (like Sy or Luissa) but a genuinely snobby, sanctimonious, rigid, small minded person without a heart.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And you just proved my point.
You know nothing about my life, but you seem to be the authority on it. Like I said, if someone does not think the way you do, you look down on them.
My life may not be perfect, but I have worked pretty hard to make my life better for child and me. And I know the only reason why most have such opinions of me is because I am a single mom. You assume I am a whore who lives off the government. To set the record straight, the only thing I receive from the government is health care and an education for my son who is DD. I have received help in the past, but I worked very hard to make it on my own. You being a judgmental bitch won't ever make me feel bad for doing things on my own, and the fact my son gets help from the government because he is DD.

I never claimed to know any more than you blurt out here on the boards. Like you just did. I think you're an ignorant trollop just for the stuff you say. I don't need any more.

Would you like to tell me anything you just said that's supposed to make me view you with less contempt than I do? And it's fairly obvious that I DO make you feel bad, or you wouldn't keep trying so hard to defend yourself.

Is that your goal? To make me feel bad about myself. Kind of seems that way.

I would rather be a whore, than someone who feels like she is better than everyone. It must be lonely in your world of self righteousness.

I would much rather be someone "socially unacceptable", according to the OP, than a self-righteous, smug prig.

 

[Avatar4321]

To claim that "leftism" turns human beings into something less than human is hateful. Andrew Klavan and the OP ought to be ashamed of themselves.

We could be talking instead about how to solve some real problems in our country, instead of demonizing other citizens.

The OP pretends to want a serious discussion, but does nothing to make sure we have one. Starts flame threads like this.

Take any one citizen, conservative or liberal, and you will find nuances in our beliefs and positions on pending legislation.

I'm sick to death of flame threads like this.

What's important to you? Getting our country on track so that people work again? Or taking pot shots at people protesting.

We have a right of assembly. The OP has value judgments of which citizens the OP deems are worthy of having a voice.

The OP tells posters not to post in this thread unless meeting the OP criteria of "social acceptability".

What a haughty person. No, not a hawty, (like Sy or Luissa) but a genuinely snobby, sanctimonious, rigid, small minded person without a heart.

You dont have the right to riot though. Nor rape. Nor shoot up on drugs or deal drugs. or pimp young girls out.

Outsourcing our personal responsibilities to the government creates people who do the above. People who expect a government to take care of them are selfish people.

OWS isn't supposed to fix the nation. It's supposed to create a crisis and create violence on the streets. Shocking, it has. And it's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Top down, bottom up, and inside out. overburden and then collapse the system. This is precisely what the revolutionaries on the left have been working towards for well over a hundred years.

And they are those rigid, sanctimonious, small minded people you were talking about.

But they've already lost. We live in a day and age where we will see prophecies fulfilled and people liberated. And then left can't stop it. Nor can fools on the right.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Well since I am obviously the 'uppity one' and the only one "forcing my opinion' on others by expressing what I think or believe, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. Silly me, I thought message boards were to discuss topics and I honestly don't know how to do that without expressing opinions. I suppose I could go the route some do and just personally insult people, but alas, I find that really boring and not something I would enjoy doing just to fit in. Oh well.

I would encourage Luissa to look up the definition for Classical Liberal though. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good one and I have shortened and condensed that into the definition I now use to save time. Geez, surely a leftist who is so much better than me can learn something.

But anyway, I guess I am so flawed that I think Klaven's thesis was right on. And so far nobody, and I do mean nobody, has offered ANY kind of argument to challenge it.

Actually, when making the comment I wasn't really thinking of you.
I have never liked Cecile MO, she always speaks down to people including some who share her same beliefs. That is my biggest issue with conservative women. If we do not live the way they do, and share their same beliefs they treat us like we are less of a person.

I don't have any reason not to take you at your word on that despite your less than complimentary judgments of me in the past. But I think the problem is that conservative women know what they believe, why they believe it, and can articulate it. I think the leftists probably intuit more without complete clarity and that makes it more dfficult to articulate an opinion. It is why Tea Partiers are so clear in what their goals are and why the Occupy groups are far less clear on what they want or why they want it or who they want it from.

That is not making anybody less of a person. And it is no different than the leftists telling we conservatives that we want to ram religion down people's throats or force women to be enslaved to unwanted children or take away lunches from school kids or any of the other ridiculous things we are accused of.

Those who insult people, unless it is the typical USMB food fight, are treating people as less than people, however, and both sides do it.

To disagree with somebody does not treat anybody as less of a person. To presume to judge them does.

Do you think that calling leftists, "awful people" isn't insulting? Why did you start this flame thread?

 

[Cecilie1200]

And you just proved my point.
You know nothing about my life, but you seem to be the authority on it. Like I said, if someone does not think the way you do, you look down on them.
My life may not be perfect, but I have worked pretty hard to make my life better for child and me. And I know the only reason why most have such opinions of me is because I am a single mom. You assume I am a whore who lives off the government. To set the record straight, the only thing I receive from the government is health care and an education for my son who is DD. I have received help in the past, but I worked very hard to make it on my own. You being a judgmental bitch won't ever make me feel bad for doing things on my own, and the fact my son gets help from the government because he is DD.

I never claimed to know any more than you blurt out here on the boards. Like you just did. I think you're an ignorant trollop just for the stuff you say. I don't need any more.

Would you like to tell me anything you just said that's supposed to make me view you with less contempt than I do? And it's fairly obvious that I DO make you feel bad, or you wouldn't keep trying so hard to defend yourself.

Is that your goal? To make me feel bad about myself. Kind of seems that way.

I would rather be a whore, than someone who feels like she is better than everyone. It must be lonely in your world of self righteousness.

My goal is to speak the truth as I see it. Running around in a frenzy over what other people think is YOUR schtick, not mine.

It's probably a good thing that you'd rather be a whore than superior, since the former is a more attainable goal for you than the latter.

And my world would only be lonely if everyone in the world was as pathetic as you are. Fortunately, such is not the case.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And to play your little game. I could assume you are unsatisfied woman who picked a man due to his bank balance rather than someone you love. And because of this you are lonely woman who has take out her sad existence on people who actually realize life is to short to settle.

Assume whatever you like. Your opinion and worldview have always been worthless twaddle in my eyes, so I can't imagine why you suddenly think that's going to change.

And you've obviously "settled" at least once for someone who thought life was too short to settle for YOU. Your projection is actually mildly entertaining, in a purely psych study sort of way.

 

[Avatar4321]

Pride is a sin that can readily be seen in others but is rarely admitted in ourselves. Most of us consider pride to be a sin of those on the top, such as the rich and the learned, looking down at the rest of us. There is, however, a far more common ailment among us—and that is pride from the bottom looking up. It is manifest in so many ways, such as faultfinding, gossiping, backbiting, murmuring, living beyond our means, envying, coveting, withholding gratitude and praise that might lift another, and being unforgiving and jealous. (Ezra Taft Benson - Beware of Pride)

Whenever I read accusations against people being proud, I think of the above quote and really the entire talk the quote comes from. Pride really is the universal sin. It's so easy to see in others and so difficult to see in ourselves.

It's probably the sin most prevalent on this board. In fact, I created a thread one point a while ago asking everyone why they posted here. Every single reason I was given, except maybe one, indicated that the people giving them were here to satisfy their own pride.

People want attention, they want to prove themselves right, they want destroy others in arguments, they want to show how much better they are than others, they wanted to be entertained by fools, so on and so on.

Humility is a virtue that is completely lost on us as a people and because of that we are going to suffer. It's a guarentee.

 

[L.K.Eder]

troll thread, and a really dumb one at that.

leeeeeeeftism

 

[Sky Dancer]

To claim that "leftism" turns human beings into something less than human is hateful. Andrew Klavan and the OP ought to be ashamed of themselves.

We could be talking instead about how to solve some real problems in our country, instead of demonizing other citizens.

The OP pretends to want a serious discussion, but does nothing to make sure we have one. Starts flame threads like this.

Take any one citizen, conservative or liberal, and you will find nuances in our beliefs and positions on pending legislation.

I'm sick to death of flame threads like this.

What's important to you? Getting our country on track so that people work again? Or taking pot shots at people protesting.

We have a right of assembly. The OP has value judgments of which citizens the OP deems are worthy of having a voice.

The OP tells posters not to post in this thread unless meeting the OP criteria of "social acceptability".

What a haughty person. No, not a hawty, (like Sy or Luissa) but a genuinely snobby, sanctimonious, rigid, small minded person without a heart.

You dont have the right to riot though. Nor rape. Nor shoot up on drugs or deal drugs. or pimp young girls out.Outsourcing our personal responsibilities to the government creates people who do the above. People who expect a government to take care of them are selfish people.OWS isn't supposed to fix the nation. It's supposed to create a crisis and create violence on the streets. Shocking, it has. And it's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Top down, bottom up, and inside out. overburden and then collapse the system. This is precisely what the revolutionaries on the left have been working towards for well over a hundred years.

And they are those rigid, sanctimonious, small minded people you were talking about.

But they've already lost. We live in a day and age where we will see prophecies fulfilled and people liberated. And then left can't stop it. Nor can fools on the right.

Listen chump. I'm not rioting, raping, shooting up or dealing drugs or pimping young girls out.

I want my tax dollars to go toward helping people, not killing them. I have no problem with seeing my taxes go to UI benefits and food stamps. If you want to call me selfish for wanting to help poor people and people out of work, so be it. Call me selfish.

You don't know me at all. You don't know what work I do in the community, what my political activities are, what charities I support or anything else. To YOU and the OP, we're all the same. Scumbags. Socially unacceptable people.

Everyone on the left to you is a demon. That's divisive.

How you can live with yourself with that kind of attitude toward fellow citizens is beyond me.

I work every day with people of all walks of life and political persuasions and I don't think of any of them as less than me because of my political views.

This is a flame thread. I hope you feel superior, as was the point of this thread. To distance opponents, to dehumanize them, to make it seem as though America only belongs to RWNJ's.

 

[Luissa]

And to play your little game. I could assume you are unsatisfied woman who picked a man due to his bank balance rather than someone you love. And because of this you are lonely woman who has take out her sad existence on people who actually realize life is to short to settle.

Assume whatever you like. Your opinion and worldview have always been worthless twaddle in my eyes, so I can't imagine why you suddenly think that's going to change.

And you've obviously "settled" at least once for someone who thought life was too short to settle for YOU. Your projection is actually mildly entertaining, in a purely psych study sort of way.

While your worldview seems limited and a little impersonal to me. But what are going to do?

 

[Luissa]

I never claimed to know any more than you blurt out here on the boards. Like you just did. I think you're an ignorant trollop just for the stuff you say. I don't need any more.

Would you like to tell me anything you just said that's supposed to make me view you with less contempt than I do? And it's fairly obvious that I DO make you feel bad, or you wouldn't keep trying so hard to defend yourself.

Is that your goal? To make me feel bad about myself. Kind of seems that way.

I would rather be a whore, than someone who feels like she is better than everyone. It must be lonely in your world of self righteousness.

My goal is to speak the truth as I see it. Running around in a frenzy over what other people think is YOUR schtick, not mine.

It's probably a good thing that you'd rather be a whore than superior, since the former is a more attainable goal for you than the latter.

And my world would only be lonely if everyone in the world was as pathetic as you are. Fortunately, such is not the case.

What is more attainable to me is living a happy life where I actually help people, rather than put them down for their short comings. You will never have a happy life because you are to busy judging the people around you for what you think you know about them.

 

[Sallow]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

Why the heck do you "expect" to engage in civil discourse when you put up hyperbolic and insulting tripe like this?

This is really just spoiling for a fight. In other words..trolling.

 

[BDBoop]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised this is still in the political folder, really.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And to play your little game. I could assume you are unsatisfied woman who picked a man due to his bank balance rather than someone you love. And because of this you are lonely woman who has take out her sad existence on people who actually realize life is to short to settle.

Assume whatever you like. Your opinion and worldview have always been worthless twaddle in my eyes, so I can't imagine why you suddenly think that's going to change.

And you've obviously "settled" at least once for someone who thought life was too short to settle for YOU. Your projection is actually mildly entertaining, in a purely psych study sort of way.

While your worldview seems limited and a little impersonal to me. But what are going to do?

Continue to not give a damn what you think, as I always have.

 

[Luissa]

Assume whatever you like. Your opinion and worldview have always been worthless twaddle in my eyes, so I can't imagine why you suddenly think that's going to change.

And you've obviously "settled" at least once for someone who thought life was too short to settle for YOU. Your projection is actually mildly entertaining, in a purely psych study sort of way.

While your worldview seems limited and a little impersonal to me. But what are going to do?

Continue to not give a damn what you think, as I always have.

You probably don't give a damn about most things, do you? You seem like a "me" person.

 

[Foxfyre]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

Why the heck do you "expect" to engage in civil discourse when you put up hyperbolic and insulting tripe like this?

This is really just spoiling for a fight. In other words..trolling.

Trolling? If it is trolling, wouldn't you think at least one leftist would have come up with an argument to challenge Klaven's thesis? At least one leftist would have had a thought about why the thesis is incorrect rather than accuse me of trolling or slinging insults at whomever? But after repeated requests, alas, not even a nibble re the topic.

And civility is impossible if those on opposite sides of the issue disagree?

I really find that sad.

But the further the thread goes, yes some on the right are engaging in the inevitable food fight too, but the more the leftists are demonstrating Klaven's thesis.

The fact that the straw poll is running 5 to 1 in agreement with Klaven's thesis should illustrate pretty clearly that there is something to say for the thesis.