What kind of a future does becoming North-Mexico have for us?

[emilynghiem]

When hispanics take over the political processes in a city it becomes like Bell, California. It becomes just as corrupt as any city in mexico or guatemala or any other latin american country. IF these corrupt city officials call themselves democrat, it's fine. It's good actually. The answer isn't to let more in, it's to get what we got out. That's not going to happen, so an individual learning to live in a nation rapidly becoming Juarez-North is to choose up sides as to which gang you will fight with and start defending what turf they let you have.

That is why we need to require education in Constitutional laws and ethics, and training/assistance in due process and conflict resolution. Not just for immigrants, but all citizens. Not just for govt but also corporations, for any large institution whether business, religious, or political party/union that could otherwise abuse collective authority/influence to bypass democratic due process and oppress dissenting citizens who are supposed to be protected equally under law instead of threatened by bigger bullies violating the laws.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, I see now. Included corporation right along with union and political party as entities that citizens' due process and equal access need to be protected against.

 

[emilynghiem]

You simply don't care if they transform us into a corrupt nation like Mexico. I get the idea of what you're saying.

What a future. Not one any of our founders would of wanted. I'm simply saying is that they don't believe in our culture or beliefs of human freedom.

Maybe a few do but overall they're a much more socialist people.

Dear Matthew: There is a way to prevent this dilution and corruption, but I am going to ask you to be strong about this, and not only take refuge in enforcing Constitutional principles central to America's history and future, but also to have ABSOLUTE FAITH that ALL PEOPLE want these same principles and strength. They just don't know how to access it, that is why they flock here. Matthew you must see and believe that Constitutional laws merely make statutory for the US what are already natural laws universal to all human beings. That is why America is so strong, we have both the best of Christian laws and heritage and the best of Constitutional and natural laws being enforced in our country, through education and culture. No other country in the world has this foundation of both church and state being independent institutions and yet being free to partner where the two laws agree. And yes, I agree with you we stand to lose these very foundations if we fail to teach people how to live by them and sustain them. The President is one of the worst example of how not to follow the Constitution, but to assume you need to bypass it to get things done. How sad, but maybe this is necessary to teach by example and comparison, so we learn the difference.

In truth, we get things done successfully by FOLLOWING the same process in the Constitution for govt as we do in our relations with others and with whole institutions and society. We exercise and respect free will and free speech; we petition one another to redress grievances and resolve conflicts in a system of democratic due process. We respect the right to assemble and associate freely, and if something threatens the equal peace and justice and consent of an individual or group, we respond by protest or petition to fix it.
Matthew, these are Natural laws, that all people are under and live by. And the US Constitution happens to put these in writing where people can be taught this system.

So what is missing is the lack of civics education to teach people to manage their own power and resources using the same checks and balances between the different roles we may play.

Ralph Nader believes in civics education. President Obama believes in civil rights education.

We just need to quit fearing that we need to abuse the system to bully another group before they bully us. that is the scarcity mentality, fearing we cannot have enough resources. But in truth everyone can have equal knowledge of the laws, and generate enough to sustain themselves without competing with someone else.

We need to set this up in an orderly fashion, and not have a school full of failing or disruptive students, crashing the system that other people have paid and invested resources and effort to build to run self-sufficiently. We cannot abuse the system to support unsustainable burdens while people learn the hard way who are coming up from behind on the learning curve.

As for poor Blacks and Latinos and also poor whites who are also on the welfare rolls,
so many people are clearly behind in the financial and political learning process,
including first time voters who have never had the thrill of feeling represented by ANYONE in their lives so of course Obama represents something emotional that others have become jaded about who know there is a lot more work involved than just voting someone in.

Instead of using prisons/detention center and even mental health facilities and housing as warehouses for all the people needing social help to become independent, we need to organize the given resources we have, public housing to prison and university/medical programs, to set up a tiered system of registering people under sponsoring schools to work their way up from education to independence, including work-study programs to track "credits" people may owe for criminal violations or for illegal status or employment.

This can be run by voluntary institutions or by mandatory restitution owed through govt, or probably a mix of schools and churches/businesses with govt handling security and military.
We can establish military bases, prisons and teaching hospitals along the border, and serve populations while re-investing restitution for past violations into developing campus communities where people can voluntarily receive or provide services without violating laws.

We can do this, but we need to work together, not compete to bully each other politically.
We will need the very best of the business leaders, govt leaders, and church/volunteers from the community, the strengths of both the conservative and the liberal activists, to make such a collaboration work, between the different institutions from private and public.

So please Matthew, take the values you hold most dear about America, our Constitution and all the things that make our country great, and recognize there is a way we can structure an educational and mentorship system that RESPECTS the laws and principles without compromise, but also opens the door for law-abiding citizens to work their way up. it does NOT have to be this wild lawless chaos we see happening now for lack of enforcement.

Please do not let that scare you Matthew, but motivate you to work with all the parties trying to address this. The Tea Party, the Occupy, the Latino and anti-trafficking coalitions. The Christian groups and the secular humanist peace and justice groups, all seeking solutions to stop the violence and corruption escalating and compounding immigration/border issues.

By standing together on the Constitutional values that everyone wants as a human being, we can restore respect for our humanity and our heritage, without compromising either one.

Take care Matthew,
please pray and meditate on this, and do not give in to fears
and stress, but continue to work through all that to find the
focus and answers that give you peace without any negative interference.

When you find peace of mind, you can work with anyone or any group
you need to in order to put together solid solutions that everyone supports across the board.

These principles that God gave America will prevail.
We must let those guide the order and the reforms, and the chaos and abuses will stop
as more people come together to enforce laws instead of playing games with them.

I hope this helps you focus,
America needs that focus where we can unite and not divide into chaos.
Love,
Emily

 

[longknife]

LOL...

First, Ghook says Republicans should work with democrats to further the erosion of America's racial composition:

For better or for worse, this country is becoming more and more hispanic based. Republicans should take the ball and work directly with Democrats to come up with Comprehensive Immigration Reform!

Then he says they should concentrate on more important matters:

Just like gays in the military, let it happen and fight more important battles!

The most important battle of all is to save America from the multiracialist mental disease that's destroying the nation's european national identity, genius!!

WITHOUT ITS ETHNIC/NATIONAL IDENTITY THE REAL UNITED STATES WITH ITS OVERWHELMING EUROPEAN HERITAGE WILL BE DEAD AND BURIED AND THERE WILL BE NO OTHER ISSUE TO FIGHT FOR!!

Whoa Jose (also Matthew)

The most sensible way to "work together" is to bring together both conservative and liberal party and community leaders with each respective group (Black, Latino, Women, etc) and have the more seasoned business/political leaders mentor the upcoming members, to develop a sustainable system of addressing poverty and education factors WITHOUT depending on govt, but using a business training model so people become independent. They can learn to manage their own business, schools and health care/social services as in a community campus system instead of bogging down govt with policy and funding issues.

Because this would be based on TEACHING respect for the government and civil structures given to us by our Founding Fathers developed from European church-state institutions, the heritage of our American foundations would be preserved as the backbone per community. No matter how diverse the cultural representation is, the structures, the democratic process and redressing of grievances to manage self-government and business free enterprise would not only remain intact, but be taught and mentored so all populations can benefit by learning to exercise these skills.

Don't agonize, organize. All groups, all communities can benefit by organizing their resources and network using the same system of govt that America is famous for. Delegating tasks to people in a judicial, legislative or executive position; and working together to manage all issues in the community. So you become self-governing, based on our current system as a model. Localize the solutions to take massive burdens off federal govt, so we stop the deficit spending and overreliance, and keep accountability local.

Do you have the faintest idea of "the model upon which our government was founded" really came from?

The original Articles of Confederation were based broadly on a similar form of government from the Iroquois Federation!

The founders DID NOT want a European-style government. They wanted states to be supreme but generally confederated for mutual defense.

So, if you're gonna spout righteous comments about the subject; educate yourself.

 

[longknife]

When hispanics take over the political processes in a city it becomes like Bell, California. It becomes just as corrupt as any city in mexico or guatemala or any other latin american country. IF these corrupt city officials call themselves democrat, it's fine. It's good actually. The answer isn't to let more in, it's to get what we got out. That's not going to happen, so an individual learning to live in a nation rapidly becoming Juarez-North is to choose up sides as to which gang you will fight with and start defending what turf they let you have.

That is why we need to require education in Constitutional laws and ethics, and training/assistance in due process and conflict resolution. Not just for immigrants, but all citizens. Not just for govt but also corporations, for any large institution whether business, religious, or political party/union that could otherwise abuse collective authority/influence to bypass democratic due process and oppress dissenting citizens who are supposed to be protected equally under law instead of threatened by bigger bullies violating the laws.

How DARE you infer that the current education plans to improve self-image are NOT as important about actually learning something! How dare you?

 

[emilynghiem]

Do you have the faintest idea of "the model upon which our government was founded" really came from?

The original Articles of Confederation were based broadly on a similar form of government from the Iroquois Federation!

The founders DID NOT want a European-style government. They wanted states to be supreme but generally confederated for mutual defense.

So, if you're gonna spout righteous comments about the subject; educate yourself.

Hi LK: Yes, of course, since Constitutional laws are based on God of Nature and natural laws, then the Iroquois and other tribes would also follow the same. Even the college system of depts we use in schools has been credited to the African villages/tribes, while the Europeans made this system famous.

What I was referring to was putting in writing the basic laws or principles of democracy that all people have by design, by our human nature, which collectively becomes govt/society.

1. free will/free exercise of religion/executive power
We all have equal ability as the President, the military or police to defend the laws or our consent/will/contracts, to carry them out in the real world (to the extent we respect the same freedom/peace/justice or law/order for others, we cannot abuse our free will for harm). We may choose to delegate duties/authority to govt/police/military, but we all have the same capacities as human beings.
2. free speech/free press
We all have the capacity for expressing our contracts and beliefs, and interpreting these by our opinions, the same as any legislator, lawyer or judge on the bench. This collectively becomes the legislative or judicial power of govt, but we exercise this individual in our own domains every day that we either write, speak or communicate our interests to others. And we all are responsible for "checking and balancing" each other, to respect all views equally and not oppress or deny justice/representation by censorship or coercion.
3. the right to assemble and to petition for redress of grievances
We all practice some form of democratic/due process when we interact in relation with others, with institutions and society. When we run into conflicts, we negotiate to make sure our concerns and interests are addressed, and when wrongs occur we demand corrections or restitution to restore just relations and peace.

These rights, which collective correspond to the three branches of govt and the checks/balances between the separate powers, all happen to be listed together in the First Amendment. So when we teach people how to use these powers and authority we all have as human beings, in context with the laws and with the same rights/freedoms of other people, then we can exercise democracy within our realm of influence, and collectively establish the same standards of equal justice, due process and representation globally, too.

So the fact that these three levels or capacities we exercise as human beings are written into statutory laws of the US, where the 14th Amendment also protects these for all people within public jurisdiction, that is what I am talking about as unique to American govt/law.

We have the language to teach from, similar to how Christians/Muslims/Jews use the Bible which has the central laws and instructions to bring people together in agreement on them.

These laws exist naturally, and other tribes and people may teach and apply them. But in writing, and established practice, US laws have made them statutory in the most public way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We don't live in 1787, and the Founders, if alive today, would undoubtedly side with the narrow right of center to left of center and their positions, not yours.

LOL...

First, Ghook says Republicans should work with democrats to further the erosion of America's racial composition:


Then he says they should concentrate on more important matters:



The most important battle of all is to save America from the multiracialist mental disease that's destroying the nation's european national identity, genius!!

WITHOUT ITS ETHNIC/NATIONAL IDENTITY THE REAL UNITED STATES WITH ITS OVERWHELMING EUROPEAN HERITAGE WILL BE DEAD AND BURIED AND THERE WILL BE NO OTHER ISSUE TO FIGHT FOR!!

Whoa Jose (also Matthew)

The most sensible way to "work together" is to bring together both conservative and liberal party and community leaders with each respective group (Black, Latino, Women, etc) and have the more seasoned business/political leaders mentor the upcoming members, to develop a sustainable system of addressing poverty and education factors WITHOUT depending on govt, but using a business training model so people become independent. They can learn to manage their own business, schools and health care/social services as in a community campus system instead of bogging down govt with policy and funding issues.

Because this would be based on TEACHING respect for the government and civil structures given to us by our Founding Fathers developed from European church-state institutions, the heritage of our American foundations would be preserved as the backbone per community. No matter how diverse the cultural representation is, the structures, the democratic process and redressing of grievances to manage self-government and business free enterprise would not only remain intact, but be taught and mentored so all populations can benefit by learning to exercise these skills.

Don't agonize, organize. All groups, all communities can benefit by organizing their resources and network using the same system of govt that America is famous for. Delegating tasks to people in a judicial, legislative or executive position; and working together to manage all issues in the community. So you become self-governing, based on our current system as a model. Localize the solutions to take massive burdens off federal govt, so we stop the deficit spending and overreliance, and keep accountability local.

Do you have the faintest idea of "the model upon which our government was founded" really came from?

The original Articles of Confederation were based broadly on a similar form of government from the Iroquois Federation!

The founders DID NOT want a European-style government. They wanted states to be supreme but generally confederated for mutual defense.

So, if you're gonna spout righteous comments about the subject; educate yourself.

 

[Katzndogz]

There is good news. Once we become Juarez-North, there will be an unlimited supply of drugs brought to you by the Sinaloa Union, the Zeta Union and the Beltran Leyva Union. See how good that is, AND we'll be making sure those unions get all benefits.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then legalize drugs and regulate and tax them, like booze and ciggies, dude.

 

[emilynghiem]

How DARE you infer that the current education plans to improve self-image are NOT as important about actually learning something! How dare you?

When I first brought this idea of mass public education on civil laws, due process and conflict resolution for self-govt to a political science graduate in the Millions More Movement, he said the people weren't ready for that. They were still struggling and divided among themselves because of all the problems we know come from the lack of background in this.

He said the first step is to organize the unity and get people on the same page period.
And then after they are together, then the education can be done; but before that, they are not ready to receive it. Especially when they are still getting over the black vs. white issue, that is not the time to go introduce these Constitutional laws as universal to all people yet.

He did finally accept my urgency in pleading for this as the goal, as I would not let him off that easy. And I had to also accept people weren't there yet, especially those behind on the curve, who are still overcoming personal fears and injury from past oppression. That takes time to heal, and the emotions and reactions need to be in check, before minds can focus.

So for whatever reason, if it works better to get people excited and confident personally that they are included and can succeed, BEFORE introducing all the hard core lessons and training as to what it really takes to get there, then I have to accept where people are right now.

I just had this conversation with my bfriend last night, who can't tolerate it either. The news story of an Obama voter who forced a gun in a shop owner's face while he was robbing the store, demanding he better vote for Obama. Do we really need to put up with this learning curve, and forgive it until we can do better than this? How much does everyone else have to pay while the people behind get caught up with where they need to be in society?

But that is the reality, of Black Latino and other poor minorities who dominate the prison system without support to break out like Obama had. He is the first sign or symbol to many that there is even hope of using the system to get anywhere at all. And right now, yes, they are taking crazy shortcuts or thinking they can take shortcuts like Obama did, getting his record deferred and getting his education to Harvard paid for, which most people don't have. And I hate how long it will take to move from this stage to real independence, but that is where people are, and you can't rush people's learning curves who have been behind generationally if their parents or grandparents never owned houses or went to school. To break out of the cycle is going to take some work, so we need to set up the best way to do that without overtaxing the people who did nothing wrong and should not pay for people who do. The system needs to be fair, and put the burden on people who did break laws to take illegal shortcuts, and reward the ones who did things legally. It will take time to set this up, and to go through and assess all the work and who needs to pay to be fair.

If Obama takes more shortcuts, like he did with health care, he may just try to push a bill through Congress to appease the pressure, and keep charging all of this to the taxpayers and not want to sort out who had what violations for what length of time vs. someone else.

But I believe it would restore the integrity of the system and laws if we do require restitution in proportion to the time and degree of violations, so we reward law abiding conduct and require consequences for people who commit crimes, whether offenders born here, or illegal traffickers, or employers/businesses who exploited workers and owe restitution by investing resources into converting factories into schools and work-study programs to help stop labor abuses and start shifting production and economy into jobs with liveable wages.

I hope both parties can collaborate, and convince all constituents to follow a consistent system that is fair and will help everyone, will hold people accountable if they broke laws or not, and create jobs and student internships in education, health care and social services so we can cover all these costs of rebuilding the economy without creating new tax burdens.
We should reward lawabiding citizens who invest in rebuilding with tax breaks, and also require wrongdoers to pay restitution into such programs for past violations and debts.

If the liberals are good at all the cheerleading to pull people together to do this, then great.
And the work to actually organize and build the structures and infrastructures can follow.
We just don't have a lot of time, so I hope the shift from cheerleading to teamwork can be expedited. These stories I hear in the media look awful and sad to me; I don't know how to speed that up, it is like the grief process of anger/denial and bargaining/acceptance. But if the people who do see the bigger picture of where this is heading, can coach and mentor the others who don't get how much work this is going to take, maybe we can pull it off!

Go Team! Quit slamming people in the locker room, get on the field and go for the goals!
Let the cheerleaders cheer, let the coaches do their job directing different players in position. And let's not get those roles mixed up. The clock is running....

 

[emilynghiem]

We don't live in 1787, and the Founders, if alive today, would undoubtedly side with the narrow right of center to left of center and their positions, not yours.

I think they would say: "We told you so. This is why we didn't want masses voting, only property owners who were educated and/or experienced." And Jefferson might be pushing plans to provide education to gradually bring the populations up to citizenship status, as he had a plan to gradually abolish slavery to prevent civil war. People, people, people!

 

[emilynghiem]

Then legalize drugs and regulate and tax them, like booze and ciggies, dude.

Jake: What do you think of the idea of states introducing a third level of law for individuals besides civil and criminal. And have "health and safety" standards they can "opt into" and mold/adopt per district or community by consensus on policy. So things like marijuana use, or prostitution could be decided as no longer a civil or criminal violation, but could be allowed as long as it does not violate health and safety standards. Relationship abuse and harassment that is not yet a civil/criminal violation could also be checked on this level, if it is already threatening to harm someone's mental or emotional health and security. So it would be a lighter level of policy, subject to "counseling and conflict resolution" until the cause of complaint is resolved. Disagreements about pitbull ownership could be addressed locally instead of pushing a global mandate outside that agreement within a single district. But if something works, then other homeowners/civic associations could adopt it in their districts.

What do you think?

 

[Unkotare]

You simply don't care if they transform us into a corrupt nation like Mexico. I get the idea of what you're saying.

What a future. Not one any of our founders would of wanted. I'm simply saying is that they don't believe in our culture or beliefs of human freedom.

Maybe a few do but overall they're a much more socialist people.

When hispanics take over the political processes in a city it becomes like Bell, California. It becomes just as corrupt as any city in mexico or guatemala or any other latin american country. IF these corrupt city officials call themselves democrat, it's fine. It's good actually. The answer isn't to let more in, it's to get what we got out. That's not going to happen, so an individual learning to live in a nation rapidly becoming Juarez-North is to choose up sides as to which gang you will fight with and start defending what turf they let you have.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k]Lighten Up Francis - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

The consensus on those issues are done at the federal level.

The states now can decide whether to start ACA at the state level or opt out and let the feds do it for them.

All the rest is already settled at the state and local level. Your pitbull is at the mercies of city and state officials, not the CIA.

Then legalize drugs and regulate and tax them, like booze and ciggies, dude.

Jake: What do you think of the idea of states introducing a third level of law for individuals besides civil and criminal. And have "health and safety" standards they can "opt into" and mold/adopt per district or community by consensus on policy. So things like marijuana use, or prostitution could be decided as no longer a civil or criminal violation, but could be allowed as long as it does not violate health and safety standards. Relationship abuse and harassment that is not yet a civil/criminal violation could also be checked on this level, if it is already threatening to harm someone's mental or emotional health and security. So it would be a lighter level of policy, subject to "counseling and conflict resolution" until the cause of complaint is resolved. Disagreements about pitbull ownership could be addressed locally instead of pushing a global mandate outside that agreement within a single district. But if something works, then other homeowners/civic associations could adopt it in their districts.

What do you think?

 

[Politico]

Does anyone have a quadruple facepalm?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Since it appears that we're going to get an amnesty and really become northern Mexico...Most of these people are socialist that live pretty poorly...There goes our first world status. This is what it means. A corrupt hole of a nation just like Mexico.

Goodbye America.

 

[Unkotare]

Since it appears that we're going to get an amnesty and really become northern Mexico...Most of these people are socialist that live pretty poorly...There goes our first world status. This is what it means. A corrupt hole of a nation just like Mexico.

Goodbye America.

What the fuck are you waiting for? Get the fuck out already.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Since it appears that we're going to get an amnesty and really become northern Mexico...Most of these people are socialist that live pretty poorly...There goes our first world status. This is what it means. A corrupt hole of a nation just like Mexico.

Goodbye America.

What the fuck are you waiting for? Get the fuck out already.

Go back where ever you come from. Thanks.

 

[Unkotare]

Since it appears that we're going to get an amnesty and really become northern Mexico...Most of these people are socialist that live pretty poorly...There goes our first world status. This is what it means. A corrupt hole of a nation just like Mexico.

Goodbye America.

What the fuck are you waiting for? Get the fuck out already.

Go back where ever you come from. Thanks.

I'm here and I love my country. YOU get the fuck out if you're so scared and unhappy, you fucking loser.