What is Wrong with Voting Requirements?

[jillian]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

they let you vote. i think that speaks for itself.

 

[jillian]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

I did a google on it and you have been misinformed.

And, NONE of the cases touted initially could have or would have, been stopped by a gvt issued Photo ID. NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NIENTE, ZILCH.

North Carolina Republicans last year passed a sweeping and restrictive voting law, which is currently being challenged by the U.S. Justice Department. The law’s voter ID provision would likely have done nothing to stop the double voting being alleged here, but solid evidence of illegal voting could still bolster the state’s case that the measure is justified. It could also make it easier for the state to remove from the rolls voters who are thought to be registered in two states—raising concerns that legitimate voters could wrongly be purged.

But Republicans and conservative media, predictably, aren’t waiting for the results of the probe. Instead, they’re already shouting voter fraud. “N.C. Board of Elections audit finds up to 35,750 instances of ‘double voting’ (voter fraud) in the 2012 election,” tweeted Republican National Committee spokesman Sean Spicer Wednesday. A headline at National Review made the same claim. In a statement, state Sen. Thom Tillis, the frontrunner for the GOP Senate nomination, pointed to “alarming evidence of voter error [and] fraud.”

The notion that the board found over 35,000 cases of voter fraud—or even one case—is flatly false. With the investigation not yet even underway, the board, headed by Kim Strach, hasn’t come close to concluding that any specific case involved double voting.* And there are very good reasons why it’s held off.

First, it helps to understand statistics. The political scientist Michael McDonald and election law scholar Justin Levitt have shown in a detailed statistical study that the number of people who share a name and birthdate is much higher than it might at first appear. (Just for fun, take the RNC’s Spicer. Though his name is less common than many, online records show 20 different Sean Spicers who were born on September 23rd, his birthday.) That statistical reality, McDonald and Levitt conclude, has big implications for how to treat potential cases of illegal voting.

“I would be very interested indeed in how many of the 35K alleged double voters are the results of mistakes or mistaken assumptions,” Levitt wrote Wednesday in an email to a group of election lawyers. “I’m going to bet on the vast majority evaporating upon closer scrutiny.”

But that still leaves those 765 cases—not as eye-popping a number as 35,000, but still significant—in which the last four digits of a voter’s Social Security number also matched that of someone who voted in another state. Statistically, the chances of a false positive are much, much smaller under this scenario.

Even here, though, there are plenty of explanations beyond deliberate fraud. Election experts point to the high frequency of data errors by poll-workers, a possibility that doubles, of course, when matching voters across two states.

Consider the recent experience of North Carolina’s southern neighbor. Last year, South Carolina’s DMV used Social Security matches to help find more than 900 people listed as dead who had voted in recent years, setting off a spate of hand-wringing about fraud. Attorney General Alan Wilson, a Republican, used the findings to argue for the state’s strict voter ID law—which was later softened after the Justice Department objected. But state law enforcement ultimately found not a single person who deliberately cast a ballot in the name of a dead person.

Nearly half the cases were the result of clerical errors by poll-workers. Others were attributed to DMV officials finding that Social Security numbers matched but not making sure that names did, among several problems. (About 45,370 people have been assigned by the Social Security Administration to each four-digit combination of numbers.)

It's all bull crud that the ID will stop voter fraud, it simply won't, but it will disenfranchise tens of thousands of citizens from their vote, so what precisely is your goal?

the only real voter fraud was republican activists registering people and throwing out dem registrations.

i know... shocking.

 

[hortysir]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

I did a google on it and you have been misinformed.

And, NONE of the cases touted initially could have or would have, been stopped by a gvt issued Photo ID. NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NIENTE, ZILCH.

North Carolina Republicans last year passed a sweeping and restrictive voting law, which is currently being challenged by the U.S. Justice Department. The law’s voter ID provision would likely have done nothing to stop the double voting being alleged here, but solid evidence of illegal voting could still bolster the state’s case that the measure is justified. It could also make it easier for the state to remove from the rolls voters who are thought to be registered in two states—raising concerns that legitimate voters could wrongly be purged.

But Republicans and conservative media, predictably, aren’t waiting for the results of the probe. Instead, they’re already shouting voter fraud. “N.C. Board of Elections audit finds up to 35,750 instances of ‘double voting’ (voter fraud) in the 2012 election,” tweeted Republican National Committee spokesman Sean Spicer Wednesday. A headline at National Review made the same claim. In a statement, state Sen. Thom Tillis, the frontrunner for the GOP Senate nomination, pointed to “alarming evidence of voter error [and] fraud.”

The notion that the board found over 35,000 cases of voter fraud—or even one case—is flatly false. With the investigation not yet even underway, the board, headed by Kim Strach, hasn’t come close to concluding that any specific case involved double voting.* And there are very good reasons why it’s held off.

First, it helps to understand statistics. The political scientist Michael McDonald and election law scholar Justin Levitt have shown in a detailed statistical study that the number of people who share a name and birthdate is much higher than it might at first appear. (Just for fun, take the RNC’s Spicer. Though his name is less common than many, online records show 20 different Sean Spicers who were born on September 23rd, his birthday.) That statistical reality, McDonald and Levitt conclude, has big implications for how to treat potential cases of illegal voting.

“I would be very interested indeed in how many of the 35K alleged double voters are the results of mistakes or mistaken assumptions,” Levitt wrote Wednesday in an email to a group of election lawyers. “I’m going to bet on the vast majority evaporating upon closer scrutiny.”

But that still leaves those 765 cases—not as eye-popping a number as 35,000, but still significant—in which the last four digits of a voter’s Social Security number also matched that of someone who voted in another state. Statistically, the chances of a false positive are much, much smaller under this scenario.

Even here, though, there are plenty of explanations beyond deliberate fraud. Election experts point to the high frequency of data errors by poll-workers, a possibility that doubles, of course, when matching voters across two states.

Consider the recent experience of North Carolina’s southern neighbor. Last year, South Carolina’s DMV used Social Security matches to help find more than 900 people listed as dead who had voted in recent years, setting off a spate of hand-wringing about fraud. Attorney General Alan Wilson, a Republican, used the findings to argue for the state’s strict voter ID law—which was later softened after the Justice Department objected. But state law enforcement ultimately found not a single person who deliberately cast a ballot in the name of a dead person.

Nearly half the cases were the result of clerical errors by poll-workers. Others were attributed to DMV officials finding that Social Security numbers matched but not making sure that names did, among several problems. (About 45,370 people have been assigned by the Social Security Administration to each four-digit combination of numbers.)

It's all bull crud that the ID will stop voter fraud, it simply won't, but it will disenfranchise tens of thousands of citizens from their vote, so what precisely is your goal?

the only real voter fraud was republican activists registering people and throwing out dem registrations.

i know... shocking.

ACORN ring any bells?

 

[presonorek]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

Link to North Carolina having 726 of "these" cases, please.

My post contained a disclaimer. It was a sarcastic post. A link to the facts would detract from the sarcasm. You weren't supposed to take my post seriously.

 

[jasonnfree]

Still waiting for republicans to come up with evidence of people casting votes who are not eligible. And how can reducing the number of days allowing a person to vote , eliminate voter fraud? Anyway, on with the links of all these voters swinging elections. I really think it's just an excuse republicans can use when they lose elections.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

Great, so let's start a national ID program with government subsidies to make sure everyone can get one for free regardless of their ability to pay or to their ability find transportation to the offices where they would apply. I am quite sure you would be excited to have your tax dollars paying to pick up old folks in rural areas to bring them to the Federal National ID Office in the big city.

Glad we can agree on something.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Still waiting for republicans to come up with evidence of people casting votes who are not eligible.

I think in the past 5 years I have seen two examples presented of people who would have been caught by a voter ID act - one of them was a Republican - one a Democrat. So they fucking cancel each other's votes anyway.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

no, you're making it difficult for illegals to vote, and for Dem supporters to vote 10x each.

Why do you think of old black people as 'illegals' ?

 

[Care4all]

no, you're making it difficult for illegals to vote, and for Dem supporters to vote 10x each.

Why do you think of old black people as 'illegals' ?

It isn't just old black people, it's old white people too....my mother in law, who voted in every election since she was 18 until she passed away, and she was a solid Republican, never voted Dem in her life....not an ounce of dementia, even at 87....when she passed onward....she would be one disenfranchised too!

AS SHOWN in the op and by other R's in this thread, they simply believe they can pick and choose who THEY think should have the constitutional right to vote....

THIS IS ALL about stopping CITIZENS from voting, the op made it CLEAR AS DAY.

 

[Political Junky]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

Are you prepared to recite the Declaration of Independence to qualify?

 

[jwoodie]

If there was an authentic effort to decrease voter fraud the GOP would target absentee ballots, registration methods, or polling station officials. They really don't much at all, because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Instead they go after the form of voter fraud that is probably one of the LEAST common, and MOST risky, and already EASIEST to catch: In person voter fraud. In person voter fraud is repeatedly shown to be very, very rare and not even remotely a significant problem.

If what you say is true, why are you opposed to voter ID laws?

 

[Nyvin]

If there was an authentic effort to decrease voter fraud the GOP would target absentee ballots, registration methods, or polling station officials. They really don't much at all, because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Instead they go after the form of voter fraud that is probably one of the LEAST common, and MOST risky, and already EASIEST to catch: In person voter fraud. In person voter fraud is repeatedly shown to be very, very rare and not even remotely a significant problem.

If what you say is true, why are you opposed to voter ID laws?

For the reasons I said...it's extremely uncommon, it wouldn't reduce voter fraud by any noticeable amount, and it's part of a greater partisan agenda to scare/block people from voting.

 

[imawhosure]

Ridiculous assumption. Here you go, and I have many, many, many, more if you want to continue on with, "there is no proof!"













Or maybe you would rather read! Dems show Illegal Immigrants which States they can vote in

 

[imawhosure]

In any case, this fantasyland proposition by the liberal mouthpieces on here proves it is just about power. They do not care how they get it, and in fact must believe that if they do not cheat, they will lose! I believe them because pols consistently show, that Americans consider themselves over 60% conservative.

We are being led around by our noses, an kept quiet by insisting we be PC. Screw that! Either we are Americans, or we are not. And as an American I have the right to vote, and if you are not an American, conversely.......you do NOT!

Now go ahead and tell all of us.........you have 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11 million illegals here, and 1 candidate wants to make them legal, and the other wants to start clamping down and put up barriers to stop more.

What are the odds that only 10% of them try to vote, and if only 10% try and vote, you have cast almost 1,000,000 (let me spell that out for you...1 MILLION) illegal votes.

Who are you libs trying to kid? No more PC, you are phoney baloney good time rock-n-rollers who obviously care less what REAL Americans think!

 

[Staidhup]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

No, you're just ignorant of the law, the Constitution, and voting rights jurisprudence.

Whether a state issued photo ID is 'free' or not isn't the issue.

Many older African-Americans, for example, simply don't have the required documents needed to obtain such an ID. Born during segregation, many were not issued birth certificates, or those that were issued were not promulgated and not valid today.

Understand that these are voters who are currently registered to vote, voting for the last 30 or 40 years, participating in every election during that time. To compel these voters now to obtain a photo ID that comports with new state regulations manifest as an undue burden.

This in conjunction with the fact that there is no evidence of 'voter fraud' to the extent that the outcome of any election will be changed, there is simply no Constitutional justification to disallow citizens to exercise their fundamental right to vote because they cannot obtain a particular type of ID.

Now that is pure bullshit and you know it! If they had voted as many times as you state in your example, or have not, have had a job, or have not, and still have a valid social security number then one would assume they should be capable and able to secure appropriate ID. To go a step further, if one ever applied for or needed to obtain federal assistance one must have valid identification. In every developed country one must have valid identification to vote so why are your panties in such a wad?

 

[imawhosure]

If you ask people, (try it, just ask people you know) they are fed up. More and more are becoming independents because the 2 partys do not stand for what they claim to. People WANT to insure their vote counts.

You watch, this time around if someone stands for Americans and their rights, you are going to see a landslide of epic proportions. The only democrats who will vote for the democrats are real idealistic leftists, black people who have been convinced that all of this is an attempt to stop them from voting, and very few young people who think it is wise to get a leg up, while being denied all the further legs on the rung.

Of course, if it is Jebster, all bets are off. He is Hilly lite.

 

[my2¢]

Who thinks they look like their driver license photo?