What is the U.S. goal in Ukraine?

[AntonToo]

Wrong.
That is totally ignorant.
When Russia gave the Ukraine its independence in 1992, it was under the conditions that the Ukraine "never join an alliance hostile to Russia", and that Russia was to always have access to Sevastopol.
In 2014, the Ukraine violated both those terms of the treaty that gave them sovereignty

You are an idiot peddling blatant falsehoods. By now that much is firmly established and anyone reading this should not take a single word of yours without backup.

USSR charter clearly stated it's states can leave at will and Russia was in fact FIRST OUT of it, forming Russian Federation with borders that clearly didn't include Ukraine.

Cite the 1992 agreement.

NATO never attacked or planned to attack Russia, it's core mission a DEFENSIVE alliance. NATO members had broad range of economic investments in Russia prior to Russian invasion. It's never been Russia's enemy and it would be all but absolete by now if it wasn't for constant Russian invasions of it's neighbors.

Russians had a lease in Sevastopol, subject to expiration. Not only that, NO ONE LIMITED THEIR ACCESS TO IT when they decided to launch a military operation to take over Crimean Parliament and annex Ukranian territory.

 

[Ringo]

You actually believe someone will read your tripe and not eye-roll at the insanity.

I bet you surround yourself with idiots like this.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Aside from "making the world safe for democracy" or some similar claptrap, what is the specific goal of U.S.policy towards Ukrainian territory? Is it to restore Ukrainian sovereignty over its 2020 borders with Russia, or is it to restore its sovereignty over Crimea, which was "annexed" by Russia in 2014? Or are we simply giving a blank check to Ukrainian President Zelinsky to do whatever he wants?

Well, it's not about oil, or for Biden to leave billions of dollars of weapons behind again, so not entirely sure but my guess would to be that it's against Russia.

 

[Ringo]

Russians had a lease in Sevastopol, subject to expiration. Not only that, NO ONE LIMITED THEIR ACCESS TO IT

Just as everyone promised that NATO would not move eastward to Russia's borders. Western politicians are scoundrels and liars. Only the traitors who destroyed the USSR could believe them.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Just as everyone promised that NATO would not move eastward to Russia's borders. Western politicians are scoundrels and liars. Only the traitors who destroyed the USSR could believe them.

No one ever made such a promise

 

[Ringo]

The "leaders of democracy" from Ukraine have voiced the price of continuing to fight Russia - in their fevered imagination, the entire West must pay a "tax" of 1% of its GDP in aid of Ukraine.
And that, is half a trillion $ a year, four times more than the whole UkroGDP

 

[Ringo]

No one ever made such a promise

And the U.S. did not blow up Nord Stream either.

 

[Soupnazi630]

And the U.S. did not blow up Nord Stream either.

Yes that is correct.

 

[AntonToo]

Just as everyone promised that NATO would not move eastward to Russia's borders.

Made up bullshit.

NATO has always had an open charter, subject to meeting certain conditions. Gentlemen's agreement with Gorbachev (not treaty) was about NATO not putting weapons in Eastern Germany, and NATO didn't.


It's not NATO's fault Russia scares countries into a defensive aliance, it the fault of Russia's military aggression towards it's neighbors.

 

[Ringo]

Russia scares countries into a defensive aliance,

Poor babies...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What is the U.S. goal in Ukraine

1. Give the defense industry copious amounts of money with which to enrich the executives and line the pockets of politicians via kickbacks.

2. Funnel money through the corrupt elite in Ukraine so that you get a return down the road.

3. Ensure that Russia becomes our mortal enemy like the fucking retards we are.

 

[AntonToo]

Poor babies...

No moron, they are smart adults that well understand that Russia invading and annexing their lands is a clear threat.

If Ukraine was smart it would have joined NATO in the 90's along with other Baltic countries. They were indecisive with their crazy bear neighbor and are now paying a price for it.

All Putin's Russia ever really respects is brute force, nothing else.

 

[Ringo]

 

[AntonToo]

The "leaders of democracy" from Ukraine have voiced the price of continuing to fight Russia - in their fevered imagination, the entire West must pay a "tax" of 1% of its GDP in aid of Ukraine.
And that, is half a trillion $ a year, four times more than the whole UkroGDP

Ludicrous nonsense. Aid to Ukraine is purely voluntary and everyone understands that except for idiots like you. They ask for help defending themselves and they receive it.

Compulsory will be Russian reparations for the destruction and death they've brought to Ukraine.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Ludicrous nonsense. Aid to Ukraine is purely voluntary and everyone understands that except for idiots like you. They ask for help defending themselves and they receive it.

Compulsory will be Russian reparations for the destruction and death they've brought to Ukraine.

You're wrong on both counts.

Ukraine is DEMANDING money and equipment of others as if they are entitled to it.

Russia like most nations will pay NOTHING for their conquest outside of the blood and treasure they're spending now.

You have partisan blinders on and it makes you look quite the fool.


FUCK RUSSIA AND UKRAINE. There is ZERO national security at risk for us un the border squabble.

 

[AntonToo]

You're wrong on both counts.

Ukraine is DEMANDING money and equipment of others as if they are entitled to it.

HOW? How the hell can they demand anything when their entire statehood depends on the aid? Ukraine has ZERO leverage except the good will of people stepping up to help them.

Use your damn head.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

HOW? How the hell can they demand anything when their entire statehood depends on the aid? Ukraine has ZERO leverage to demand anything.

Use your damn head.

You obviously have not been paying attention to Zelinski's world tours have you? The guy acts like a fucking rock star because we were stupid enough to elevate him to that status.

He doesn't ask, he DEMANDS

 

[AntonToo]

Russia like most nations will pay NOTHING for their conquest outside of the blood and treasure they're spending now.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Short of some sort of sudden regime change Russia will be isolated from the western world for decades. They have projectiled themselves back into 90's and many of Russian elites that know better are headed for the exits.

Russia is facing nothing but decline as far as the eye can see and their path back will be through reparations to Ukraine and generational acceptance of guilt, just as it was with Germany.

 

[AntonToo]

You obviously have not been paying attention to Zelinski's world tours have you? The guy acts like a fucking rock star because we were stupid enough to elevate him to that status.

He doesn't ask, he DEMANDS

1. Again that is silly, there is zero leverage to demand anything in Ukraine's position. Without foreign aid Zelensky's government will be gone in a month and Ukraine will fall.

2. QUOTE HIM.