What Is the Price of Free Speech?

TemplarKormac

Political Atheist
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
43,847
Reaction score
8,439
Points
2,040
Location
The Land of Sanctuary
No, this isn't another thread about Duck Dynasty, just to get that out of the way. This thread is about the value of free speech. In April of this year, UB Students for Life; a Pro-Life student group at the University of Buffalo was charged $650 in "security fees" to hold a debate on abortion on campus, and are in the midst of a lawsuit against the school for placing unfair burdens on their rights to free speech. So, what is the price of free speech? What is the price of holding on to an ideal or view you hold dear? What is the price of defending what you believe is right and true? If this case is any indication, we're about to find out.

How much does free speech cost?

The University at Buffalo charged a pro-life student group nearly $650 in “unconstitutional fees” to exercise its freedom of speech during an event in April, a lawsuit alleges.

UB Students for Life, an official student organization at the school since 2012, held a pro-life abortion debate on April 18 and were instructed by school officials to hire university police to attend the event since it involved “controversial” expression. School officials later charged the group $649.63, or $150 more than the group’s entire annual Student Association funding even though one of the officers sat outside and read the newspaper.

“A public university is commonly known as the ‘marketplace of ideas,’” according to the 33-page lawsuit, which was filed Friday in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York. “That marketplace depends on free and vigorous debate between students — debate that is silenced when university policies regulate speech based on content and viewpoint and vest administrators with unbridled discretion to impose fees for the exercise of speech.”

More than 200 people attended the debate and no major disruptions were reported. At the same time, however, two other student groups — the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and UB Freethinkers — hosted a debate between a Christian and an atheist and were not levied security fees by university officials.
University at Buffalo charged pro-life student group $650 in 'unconstitutional fees,' lawsuit alleges | Fox News
 
Last edited:
  • Thanks
Reactions: 007

MACAULAY

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
5,312
Reaction score
2,997
Points
1,055
A very Wise man once said:

"The liberty of discussion is the great safeguard of all other liberties."

And so perhaps the better question is: What is the price of denying our freedom of speech?

Which is what the New England Political Correctness Nazis are determined to do.
 

Wacky Quacky

Gold Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,103
Reaction score
377
Points
130
The university was definetly in the wrong, and should return the money they charged the group. But this Is not a constitutional issue.
 
Last edited:

MACAULAY

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
5,312
Reaction score
2,997
Points
1,055
Political Correctness is not new...and it originated in New England.

With the Puritans precisely who first spread their influence over Massachusetts; then over all of New England; and finally into cities they founded as they migrated West....like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland.

The Puritans arrived in Massachusetts and immediately declared themselves the "Elect of God" which imbued them with moral and intellectual superiority. (They were copying the old Hebrews)

They found that Control was the best instrument for exercising this self-declared superiority. And soon, they were hanging women in Boston Commons for being Quakers instead of Puritans...and then hanging young people as witches for nonconformity; and then putting people in jail under the Sedition laws for criticizing President Adams from Braintree, Massachusetts.

Jefferson pardoned them all as soon as he was elected, but it has not taught these highbrow assholes not to: Always look down their noses at the folks in the Heartland of this country.

These people, pinheads, have now dispensed with God, but not their presumption of superiority and definitely not of Control....which they have learned to love.

The price to be paid for the freedom to express opinions different from these Jackasses in New England, and their dispersed spawn.....is to be marginalized as a bigot by these mean-spirited people who are certain that the right to opine stops as soon as you disagree with them...and since they control the mainstream media, it is a dangerous thing.

But, it is well with the fight. Its not a new fight....and neither is the enemy.
 

Wacky Quacky

Gold Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,103
Reaction score
377
Points
130
The university was definetly in the wrong, and should return the money they charged the group. But this not a constitutional issue.
Then why the lawsuit? Is the University not bound by the law?
The university should be charged with discriminating against the group. But the group holding the debate was not charged with a crime for what they did, so it's not a freedom of speech issue.
 

gallantwarrior

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
25,491
Reaction score
7,133
Points
280
Location
On my own 200 acres of the Frozen North
No, this isn't another thread about Duck Dynasty, just to get that out of the way. This thread is about the value of free speech. In April of this year, UB Students for Life; a Pro-Life student group at the University of Buffalo was charged $650 "security fees" to hold a debate on abortion on campus, and are in the midst of a lawsuit against the school for placing unfair burdens on their rights to free speech. So, what is the price of free speech? What is the price of holding on to an ideal or view you hold dear? What is the price of defending what you believe is right and true? If this case is any indication, we're about to find out.

How much does free speech cost?

The University at Buffalo charged a pro-life student group nearly $650 in “unconstitutional fees” to exercise its freedom of speech during an event in April, a lawsuit alleges.

UB Students for Life, an official student organization at the school since 2012, held a pro-life abortion debate on April 18 and were instructed by school officials to hire university police to attend the event since it involved “controversial” expression. School officials later charged the group $649.63, or $150 more than the group’s entire annual Student Association funding even though one of the officers sat outside and read the newspaper.

“A public university is commonly known as the ‘marketplace of ideas,’” according to the 33-page lawsuit, which was filed Friday in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York. “That marketplace depends on free and vigorous debate between students — debate that is silenced when university policies regulate speech based on content and viewpoint and vest administrators with unbridled discretion to impose fees for the exercise of speech.”

More than 200 people attended the debate and no major disruptions were reported. At the same time, however, two other student groups — the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and UB Freethinkers — hosted a debate between a Christian and an atheist and were not levied security fees by university officials.
University at Buffalo charged pro-life student group $650 in 'unconstitutional fees,' lawsuit alleges | Fox News
It would depend, is this fee required of all other "controversial" groups? If applied equally to all, I'd say it's appropriate, serving as insurance against violent disruptions.
 
OP
TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

Political Atheist
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
43,847
Reaction score
8,439
Points
2,040
Location
The Land of Sanctuary
No, this isn't another thread about Duck Dynasty, just to get that out of the way. This thread is about the value of free speech. In April of this year, UB Students for Life; a Pro-Life student group at the University of Buffalo was charged $650 "security fees" to hold a debate on abortion on campus, and are in the midst of a lawsuit against the school for placing unfair burdens on their rights to free speech. So, what is the price of free speech? What is the price of holding on to an ideal or view you hold dear? What is the price of defending what you believe is right and true? If this case is any indication, we're about to find out.

How much does free speech cost?

The University at Buffalo charged a pro-life student group nearly $650 in “unconstitutional fees” to exercise its freedom of speech during an event in April, a lawsuit alleges.

UB Students for Life, an official student organization at the school since 2012, held a pro-life abortion debate on April 18 and were instructed by school officials to hire university police to attend the event since it involved “controversial” expression. School officials later charged the group $649.63, or $150 more than the group’s entire annual Student Association funding even though one of the officers sat outside and read the newspaper.

“A public university is commonly known as the ‘marketplace of ideas,’” according to the 33-page lawsuit, which was filed Friday in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York. “That marketplace depends on free and vigorous debate between students — debate that is silenced when university policies regulate speech based on content and viewpoint and vest administrators with unbridled discretion to impose fees for the exercise of speech.”

More than 200 people attended the debate and no major disruptions were reported. At the same time, however, two other student groups — the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and UB Freethinkers — hosted a debate between a Christian and an atheist and were not levied security fees by university officials.
University at Buffalo charged pro-life student group $650 in 'unconstitutional fees,' lawsuit alleges | Fox News
It would depend, is this fee required of all other "controversial" groups? If applied equally to all, I'd say it's appropriate, serving as insurance against violent disruptions.
Read the bolded, [MENTION=31362]gallantwarrior[/MENTION]
 

gallantwarrior

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
25,491
Reaction score
7,133
Points
280
Location
On my own 200 acres of the Frozen North
No, this isn't another thread about Duck Dynasty, just to get that out of the way. This thread is about the value of free speech. In April of this year, UB Students for Life; a Pro-Life student group at the University of Buffalo was charged $650 "security fees" to hold a debate on abortion on campus, and are in the midst of a lawsuit against the school for placing unfair burdens on their rights to free speech. So, what is the price of free speech? What is the price of holding on to an ideal or view you hold dear? What is the price of defending what you believe is right and true? If this case is any indication, we're about to find out.



University at Buffalo charged pro-life student group $650 in 'unconstitutional fees,' lawsuit alleges | Fox News
It would depend, is this fee required of all other "controversial" groups? If applied equally to all, I'd say it's appropriate, serving as insurance against violent disruptions.
Read the bolded, [MENTION=31362]gallantwarrior[/MENTION]
In that case, I hope this group wins its lawsuit. I am sick and tired of selective enforcement, depending on how PC, or not PC some group may be. Freedom of speech should not be an issue of dunning one group in order to bully them into silence using prohibitively expensive "fees".
 

Amelia

Rookie
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
21,830
Reaction score
5,441
Points
0
Location
Packerland!
The university was definetly in the wrong, and should return the money they charged the group. But this not a constitutional issue.
Then why the lawsuit? Is the University not bound by the law?
The university should be charged with discriminating against the group. But the group holding the debate was not charged with a crime for what they did, so it's not a freedom of speech issue.

I don't think anyone needs to be charged with a crime before they have reason to complain that a government-related group put undue constraints on their first amendment rights.
 

JakeStarkey

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
168,037
Reaction score
16,449
Points
2,165
This was selective discrimination by the university officials.

The money needs to be refunded by the university. The student group's attorneys need to be paid by the university for having to defend the students.

The university officials who required the fee to be paid should be given an opportunity to repair the damage, in part, by attending appropriate training so they don't do it again. Or, simply fire them.
 

whitehall

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
46,280
Reaction score
10,068
Points
2,040
Location
Western Va.
The radical left has been conditioned by generations of sub-standard union based education to actually believe that free speech was invented by the FF so that they could desecrate the Flag and Christianity and ridicule traditional values. Left wingers are shocked when they find out that the 1st Amendment works both ways and it's OK to ridicule the scruffy nut cases who burn the Flag and hairy sodomite men who pretend to be women.
 

JakeStarkey

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
168,037
Reaction score
16,449
Points
2,165
The reactionary FAR RIGHT students has been trained by cohorts of prejudiced HOME SCHOOL EDUCTORS to truly think that our Founders conceived the freedom of speech so that FAR RIGHT WING social Christianity could trample our American principles.
 

LoneLaugher

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
60,540
Reaction score
8,980
Points
2,040
Location
Inside Mac's Head
Interesting case.

But an observation:

It would be enormously beneficial to the credibility of the OP and other outraged nutters if one.....just one....of the cases you bring up did not involve a nutter or nutter group as plaintiff.
 

Pogo

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
116,586
Reaction score
18,590
Points
2,190
Location
Fennario
Political Correctness is not new...and it originated in New England.

With the Puritans precisely who first spread their influence over Massachusetts; then over all of New England; and finally into cities they founded as they migrated West....like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland.

The Puritans arrived in Massachusetts and immediately declared themselves the "Elect of God" which imbued them with moral and intellectual superiority. (They were copying the old Hebrews)

They found that Control was the best instrument for exercising this self-declared superiority. And soon, they were hanging women in Boston Commons for being Quakers instead of Puritans...and then hanging young people as witches for nonconformity; and then putting people in jail under the Sedition laws for criticizing President Adams from Braintree, Massachusetts.

Jefferson pardoned them all as soon as he was elected, but it has not taught these highbrow assholes not to: Always look down their noses at the folks in the Heartland of this country.

These people, pinheads, have now dispensed with God, but not their presumption of superiority and definitely not of Control....which they have learned to love.

The price to be paid for the freedom to express opinions different from these Jackasses in New England, and their dispersed spawn.....is to be marginalized as a bigot by these mean-spirited people who are certain that the right to opine stops as soon as you disagree with them...and since they control the mainstream media, it is a dangerous thing.

But, it is well with the fight. Its not a new fight....and neither is the enemy.
That's absolutely absurd. You're suggesting the Puritans invented self-righteousness and before that it didn't exist?

Bull SHIT.
 

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
58,308
Reaction score
5,090
Points
245
The university was definetly in the wrong, and should return the money they charged the group. But this Is not a constitutional issue.
How is it not a constitutional issue when a government funded group denies a basic right?
 

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
58,308
Reaction score
5,090
Points
245
No, this isn't another thread about Duck Dynasty, just to get that out of the way. This thread is about the value of free speech. In April of this year, UB Students for Life; a Pro-Life student group at the University of Buffalo was charged $650 "security fees" to hold a debate on abortion on campus, and are in the midst of a lawsuit against the school for placing unfair burdens on their rights to free speech. So, what is the price of free speech? What is the price of holding on to an ideal or view you hold dear? What is the price of defending what you believe is right and true? If this case is any indication, we're about to find out.

How much does free speech cost?

The University at Buffalo charged a pro-life student group nearly $650 in “unconstitutional fees” to exercise its freedom of speech during an event in April, a lawsuit alleges.

UB Students for Life, an official student organization at the school since 2012, held a pro-life abortion debate on April 18 and were instructed by school officials to hire university police to attend the event since it involved “controversial” expression. School officials later charged the group $649.63, or $150 more than the group’s entire annual Student Association funding even though one of the officers sat outside and read the newspaper.

“A public university is commonly known as the ‘marketplace of ideas,’” according to the 33-page lawsuit, which was filed Friday in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York. “That marketplace depends on free and vigorous debate between students — debate that is silenced when university policies regulate speech based on content and viewpoint and vest administrators with unbridled discretion to impose fees for the exercise of speech.”

More than 200 people attended the debate and no major disruptions were reported. At the same time, however, two other student groups — the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and UB Freethinkers — hosted a debate between a Christian and an atheist and were not levied security fees by university officials.
University at Buffalo charged pro-life student group $650 in 'unconstitutional fees,' lawsuit alleges | Fox News
It would depend, is this fee required of all other "controversial" groups? If applied equally to all, I'd say it's appropriate, serving as insurance against violent disruptions.
The Supreme Court would disagree. Any restriction based on content of speech, even a security fee, would violate the 1st Amendment.
 

Pogo

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
116,586
Reaction score
18,590
Points
2,190
Location
Fennario
The university was definetly in the wrong, and should return the money they charged the group. But this Is not a constitutional issue.
How is it not a constitutional issue when a government funded group denies a basic right?
Because there's no denial of that right. When you don't have a premise you can't have a conclusion.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top