What is a saved job?

[Chris]

The stimulus kept a recession from becoming a depression.

And all of it was caused by Phil Gramm's deregulation of the financial system which created a $516 TRILLION DOLLAR derivative bubble.

 

[eagleseven]

The stimulus kept a recession from becoming a depression.

And all of it was caused by Phil Gramm's deregulation of the financial system which created a $516 TRILLION DOLLAR derivative bubble.

If you say it enough times, people might even believe you.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I see them every day.

Without the stimulus the housing industry and the automobile insdustry would be in much worst shape.

Tough to admit you are wrong, eh?

GM filed bankruptcy anyway. In the end all it did was to prolong the pain at the taxpayers expense.

Wrong.

The government kept a recession from becoming a depression.

Thanks all go to Bush...it was the TARP that saved us.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The stimulus kept a recession from becoming a depression.

And all of it was caused by Phil Gramm's deregulation of the financial system which created a $516 TRILLION DOLLAR derivative bubble.

You're a fricken dumbass!!!! Here's what caused the problems....Greenspan, Summers, Rubin...shitbag Democrat fiscal ineptitude.

 

[JW Frogen]

And all of it was caused by Phil Gramm's deregulation of the financial system which created a $516 TRILLION DOLLAR derivative bubble.

Am I the only person who thinks Phil Gramm is an escaped Galapagos tortoise from the Island of Doctor Moreau?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Yes I understand that someone who is not fired has a saved job, but how do you calculate those people? It's impossiable.

Which is exactly why this admin insists on using the term.

A saved job?

Easy.

Had the States not gotten additional help from the FEDS they'd be firing even more people then they are right now.

So those people they did not have to fire (like teachers, cops and so forth) still have jobs thanks to the bailout.

The bailout isn't a success, but it's not entirely a failure either.

If it isn't a success than what is it?

It's a fucking waste of money . . . . but it makes the Dems feel oh so good.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What is a saved job? How does one tell if a job is saved?

At the end of the academic year at my institution, multiple people were told that thanks to a lack of support from the state jobs would be terminated. In particular, their jobs. Our institution applied for, and received, stimulus money. Not every job put on the line was saved, but many all over campus were.

Those are saved jobs. If you want to track saved jobs, follow the money and look at the payrolls. How short was the company or institution prior to stimulus money, and how many jobs would have had to be terminated in order to cover that shortage.

Yes, the stimulus saved jobs.

 

[Zoom-boing]

What is a saved job? How does one tell if a job is saved?

At the end of the academic year at my institution, multiple people were told that thanks to a lack of support from the state jobs would be terminated. In particular, their jobs. Our institution applied for, and received, stimulus money. Not every job put on the line was saved, but many all over campus were.

Those are saved jobs. If you want to track saved jobs, follow the money and look at the payrolls. How short was the company or institution prior to stimulus money, and how many jobs would have had to be terminated in order to cover that shortage.

Yes, the stimulus saved jobs.

Stats? Links? I've been looking and haven't found any concrete proof.

There is only one necessary data point to make the "jobs-saved" claim: an accurate measure of expected employment levels in the future. That baseline data is critical to measure what the employment level would be in the absence of the stimulus. Unfortunately for the White House, they cannot possibly know that measurement within any degree of confidence -- and they know it.

To understand just how unknowable this data point is, it's not necessary to be an economist, a mathematician or a statistician.

You only need to know this: the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) - thousands of the most professional and rigorous counters and analyzers of labor data in the history of mankind - makes TWO revisions of employment data for their ESTIMATE of the PREVIOUS month! And even then the reports are mere estimates - an annual benchmark survey is required to reset the nation's payroll baseline.

That is, the best employment statisticians the world has ever known, people whose lives are dedicated to employment data, conducting labor surveys and research, constantly refining their complex models, have a difficult time telling you how many jobs were created in the PAST!

In fact, monthly BLS revisions of past job creation estimates are routinely off by tens of thousands of jobs, and on occasion by more than a hundred thousand jobs. The annual benchmark surveys always reset employment levels by hundreds of thousands of jobs.

And we're supposed to believe that the Council of Economic advisors have acquired the clairvoyant ability to estimate payrolls in the future? Please.

Tony Fratto: The White House "Jobs-Saved" Deception - CNBC Guest Blog - CNBC.com

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Stats? Links? I've been looking and haven't found any concrete proof.

Here's one story on the topic:

Stimulus Eases Community College Budgets

This one chronicles multiple states and the fact that shortfalls in State budgets led to shortfalls in funding for higher education... shortfalls offset by Federal Stimulus money. In many states federal stimulus money couldn't cover all of the funds cut and people did lose jobs.

Jobs were saved and/or created by stimulus money. Measuring those saved is the tricky part.

 

[eagleseven]

Measuring those saved is the tricky part.

You cannot concretely measure such a thing, which is why Obama uses it. Since nobody can statistically measure a "saved job", only jobs lost, thus Obama can never be wrong.

If we had 90% unemployment, Obama could claim that his stimulus "saved" the remaining 10% of jobs. It's a classic cop-out.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Measuring those saved is the tricky part.

You cannot concretely measure such a thing, which is why Obama uses it. Since nobody can statistically measure a "saved job", only jobs lost, thus Obama can never be wrong.

You're saying "concretely", when I think you mean "accurately". You can provide concrete examples of jobs saved that would stand up to investigation, though such evidence will be considered ancedotal on a board like this.

What you can't do is say exactly how many were saved and lost. You can certainly give estimates, but that is all they will be, estimates.

 

[Darkwind]

I read in My local paper a story on how these alleged 'saved' jobs are counted.
The Story was an AP story and if I find it online, I'll post a link.

It seems that the current administration, in order to make the numbers look better, agreed to count, as a saved job, a salary increase to existing jobs.

There were other problems with the whole 'saved jobs' thing in GA and other places.

So much for honesty from this administration. No jobs are actually being saved and we had another half-million new filings for unemployment on top of that.


Here we go.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_STIMULUS_JOBS?SITE=MALOW&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

[Darkwind]

At Southwest Georgia Community Action Council, director Myrtis Mulkey-Ndawula said she followed the guidelines the Obama administration provided. She said she multiplied the 508 employees by 1.84 - the percentage pay raise they received - and came up with 935 jobs saved.

More saved jobs then there are jobs! Wow. Now thats some fun math!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Since no metric exist by which one can prove that the stimulus saved any jobs, And since it passed another few million people lost their jobs the notion that it created any jobs is also spurious if one looks at total numbers.

If a business was anticipating layoffs because of less future business and in the meantime got a federally funded contract that required retaining those employees, those would be saved jobs. So yes there are metrics to measure and prove that the stimulus saved certain jobs.

 

[kyzr]

Since no metric exist by which one can prove that the stimulus saved any jobs, And since it passed another few million people lost their jobs the notion that it created any jobs is also spurious if one looks at total numbers.

If a business was anticipating layoffs because of less future business and in the meantime got a federally funded contract that required retaining those employees, those would be saved jobs. So yes there are metrics to measure and prove that the stimulus saved certain jobs.

I disagree with this approach. For example:
"If you want this government contract, I want you to certify that it saves ____ jobs. yes or no, do you want the job?"

The standard metrics of unemployment rate, tax revenue, new unemployment claims, and non-farm payroll are all the statistics that matter. "jobs saved" means NOTHING.

 

[VodkaIce]

"saved job" ... GM was forced into bankruptcy back in July of 2009 ...Greg Palast's offers in his article:

..."Yesterday, Steven Rattner was forced to resign as Obama's "Car Czar" - awaiting possible prosecution for bribery.

6 weeks ago, we identified Rattner as the man who designed the GM bankruptcy to benefit his banker buddies at the expense of auto workers.

Good riddance to Stevie the Rat and here's why...


Screw the autoworkers.
They may be crying about General Motors' bankruptcy today. But dumping 40,000 of the last 60,000 union jobs into a mass grave won't spoil Jamie Dimon's day.

Dimon is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase bank. While GM workers are losing their retirement health benefits, their jobs, their life savings; while shareholders are getting zilch and many creditors getting hosed, a few privileged GM lenders – led by Morgan and Citibank – expect to get back 100% of their loans to GM, a stunning $6 billion.

The way these banks are getting their $6 billion bonanza is stone cold illegal." ...

Moreover, Obama placates the wound by affording this injury to the gainfully unemployed GM Workers, see below:

..."When a company goes bankrupt, everyone takes a hit: fair or not, workers lose some contract wages, stockholders get wiped out and creditors get fragments of what's left. That's the law. What workers don't lose are their pensions (including old-age health funds) already taken from their wages and held in their name.

But not this time. Stevie the Rat has a different plan for GM: grab the pension funds to pay off Morgan and Citi.

Here's the scheme: Rattner is demanding the bankruptcy court simply wipe away the money GM owes workers for their retirement health insurance. Cash in the insurance fund would be replaced by GM stock. The percentage may be 17% of GM's stock - or 25%. Whatever, 17% or 25% is worth, well ... just try paying for your dialysis with 50 shares of bankrupt auto stock.

Yet Citibank and Morgan, says Rattner, should get their whole enchilada - $6 billion right now and in cash - from a company that can't pay for auto parts or worker eye exams.

Preventive Detention for Pensions

So what's wrong with seizing workers' pension fund money in a bankruptcy? The answer, Mr. Obama, Mr. Law Professor, is that it's illegal." ...


Extrapolations is from Greg Palast's article: "Grand Theft Auto: How Stevie the Rat bankrupted GM"

 

[Darkwind]

Since no metric exist by which one can prove that the stimulus saved any jobs, And since it passed another few million people lost their jobs the notion that it created any jobs is also spurious if one looks at total numbers.

If a business was anticipating layoffs because of less future business and in the meantime got a federally funded contract that required retaining those employees, those would be saved jobs. So yes there are metrics to measure and prove that the stimulus saved certain jobs.

Wow. Thats a stretch, even for you.

The simple fact is, a raise in pay is NOT a saved job, if such a thing even exists. When the deceit is so great that they are claiming more saved jobs then there are actual jobs, you have to sit back and say to yourself, "What kind of political hackery exists in this administration that they would do ANYTHING to make themselves look good.

And today, I hear that the unemployment rose to 10.2 percent.

Saved jobs indeed!

 

[ThePickledPunk]

What is a saved job? How does one tell if a job is saved?

At the end of the academic year at my institution, multiple people were told that thanks to a lack of support from the state jobs would be terminated. In particular, their jobs. Our institution applied for, and received, stimulus money. Not every job put on the line was saved, but many all over campus were.

Those are saved jobs. If you want to track saved jobs, follow the money and look at the payrolls. How short was the company or institution prior to stimulus money, and how many jobs would have had to be terminated in order to cover that shortage.

Yes, the stimulus saved jobs.

How many were saved by the stimulus? Oh, you mean you have no way of knowing that?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Measuring those saved is the tricky part.

You cannot concretely measure such a thing, which is why Obama uses it. Since nobody can statistically measure a "saved job", only jobs lost, thus Obama can never be wrong.

You're saying "concretely", when I think you mean "accurately". You can provide concrete examples of jobs saved that would stand up to investigation, though such evidence will be considered ancedotal on a board like this.

What you can't do is say exactly how many were saved and lost. You can certainly give estimates, but that is all they will be, estimates.

You can certainly inflate the hell out of those estimates, too. Especially if you want to redirect the country's attention away from the unemployment rate. Its extremely dishonest- which is something the Obamabots care little about.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Since no metric exist by which one can prove that the stimulus saved any jobs, And since it passed another few million people lost their jobs the notion that it created any jobs is also spurious if one looks at total numbers.

If a business was anticipating layoffs because of less future business and in the meantime got a federally funded contract that required retaining those employees, those would be saved jobs. So yes there are metrics to measure and prove that the stimulus saved certain jobs.

I wonder why so many other criteria were used in counting "saved jobs".