What I'd like to see Re: Ukraine/Russia

[Mac1958]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

 

[1srelluc]

Yeah, it would be nice for the US to wash it's hands of the EU and NATO.....But, but, but, isn't that what Trump has really wanted all along according to you people?

Great, I'll take the win.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

Istanbul 2022?

You mean Ukraine would not have lost 90% of their young white Christian males and 30% of their territory, amazing!

 

[JoeB131]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

Wow, Stormy Mac, so Russia is an existential threat but the US should get out of NATO. Really?

Here's the thing, the Europeans helped create this mess by encouraging the Maidan Revolution that divided the country.

The only practical solution would be to redraw the border so Russians are in Russia and Ukrainians are in Ukraine.

 

[TNHarley]

can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything

Thank goodness.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Without America, any European alliance isn't worth the paper it is written on. No one on earth would take them seriously.
Just sayin

 

[Manonthestreet]

Besides they have more pressing matters like hunting down mean tweeters

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

This is typical mac1958 nonsense

The “big issue” from our point of view is a guarantee that russia will not invade Ukraine again

But 1958 is so eaten up with fear of any trump success at peacemaking that he misses the point entirely

And that means NATO should continue rather than being dissolved as 1958 wants to do

 

[Zavulon]

This is typical mac1958 nonsense

The “big issue” from our point of view is a guarantee that russia will not invade Ukraine again

There are only three things that can possibly guarantee it: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine. In all other cases the war will continue and, likely, escalate.

And no, if I were you, I would rather think about America first. Wasting resources on defending Kievan regime when you have that many problems at home is, from my point of view, a bit irresponsible.

 

[Mac1958]

 

[luiza]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. It's their country.

You go wrong from the start .

Ukraine has been owned by Khazarian entities for centuries and today is owned by Israel, the US and UK .

It is the prime working hub for Project Chaos and a centre for Corruption , Drug Trafficking and Distribution plus Child and People trafficking .

The so called population are completely irrelevant to these considerations --- just mules and slaves and privately a nuisance .

With Nutty Yahoo , Pooters , Trumpfy and the Midget all members of Chabad , they will find common ground to best suit their common agenda -------------
When it suits them .
So far the Spat has proved to be a wonderful money making machine
And they trust that this will long continue -- it also deflects from the Greater Israel Plan in the Middle East .

 

[Mac-7]

There are only three things that can possibly guarantee it: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine. In all other cases the war will continue and, likely, escalate.

And no, if I were you, I would rather think about America first. Wasting resources on defending Kievan regime when you have that many problems at home is, from my point of view, a bit irresponsible.

The russian excuses for invading Ukraine are largely baseless

The fact is that russia is greedy for the good old days under the Soviet Union

 

[Mac-7]

There are only three things that can possibly guarantee it: denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine. In all other cases the war will continue and, likely, escalate.

And no, if I were you, I would rather think about America first. Wasting resources on defending Kievan regime when you have that many problems at home is, from my point of view, a bit irresponsible.

I think we have to manage both, but certainly we need to place America first

We need to build up our spare weapons stocks for the coming war with china

 

[Zavulon]

I think we have to manage both, but certainly we need to place America first

We need to build up our spare weapons stocks for the coming war with china

China is allied with Russia. And both are nuclear powers. You'll need much more nukes than you have now to:
a) with guarantee eliminate significant part of Russian and Chinese nukes by your first counter-force strike;
b) with guarantee eliminate significant part of Russian and Chinese industrial capabilities and mobilisation potential;
c) still keep enough of weapons to deter the rest of the world;
d) invade territory of Russia and China and eliminate leftovers.
e) still have enough of military and industrial potential to re-establish American leadership in post-WWIII environment.

Say nothing about building National ABD/ ATD and building Civil Defence with ability to intercept Russian and Chinese retaliation strike and alleviate consequences of the minor strikes.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Most of Chinese industry sits below a huge dam. Couple of MOAB's dropped behind it should be sufficient to destroy all that industry.

 

[Zavulon]

The russian excuses for invading Ukraine are largely baseless

The fact is that russia is greedy for the good old days under the Soviet Union

The fact is that without achieving those goals there can't be any kind of lasting peace in Ukraine and between Russia and NATO.

If there is discrimination of Russians, Russian-speakers, laymen of Ukrainian Orthodox Church - there can't be peace.

If there is significant Ukrainian Army - Ukraine won't have money and working hands to rebuild the country (and there will be no inner peace) and Russia will see it as a threat and Russians will try to eliminate this treat.

If there is NATO membership or any practical equivalent of it - Russia also see it as a threat and try to prevent or eliminate at early stages.

 

[Zavulon]

Most of Chinese industry sits below a huge dam. Couple of MOAB's dropped behind it should be sufficient to destroy all that industry.

A massive counter-value strike as the start of the war? Bold, but suicidal move. Because then China will launch massive retaliation nuclear attack against the USA.
If the USA believe that saving Americans is more important thing than killing Chinamen (and it is official doctrine) first strike should be counter-force.

 

[Manonthestreet]

A massive counter-value strike as the start of the war? Bold, but suicidal move. Because then China will launch massive retaliation nuclear attack against the USA.
If the USA believe that saving Americans is more important thing than killing Chinamen (and it is official doctrine) first strike should be counter-force.

Doubt anyone is going to lose enough nukes to matter. Nuke Moab.....it doesn't matter. They would have no capacity to replace most anything

 

[Correll]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

1. It is nice that you are actually engaging on an issue.

2. It is good that you realize that any peace will have to deal with Putin's "big issue", ie ukraine NOT joining nato.

3. Putin is not a fool. Ukraine joining a militarized ETO, even without the US involved, would still be a military alliance that is a potential threat to Moscow. Thus likely to restart the war, at that point.

 

[marvin martian]

Ukraine and Europe know that Russia represents an imminent and existential threat, and they know that they (like every other country) can no longer trust or depend on the United States for, uh, anything. So here's what I'd like to see, in chronological order:

1. Ukraine finds a way to end the war that includes perhaps THE big issue, a guarantee they will not join NATO. Other details are up to them. It's their country.
2. Agreements are signed and the war ends.
3. Europe dissolves NATO, getting America out of the whole picture.
4. Europe establishes ETO, the European Treaty Organzation, and Ukraine joins it. Ukraine has not joined NATO, per the agreement.
5. Everyone gets on with their lives, and if Putin doesn't like it, tough shit.

Trump's push to end Ukraine war raises fears of 'ugly deal' for Europe

^^^Look at this Trumper, who wants the US out of NATO.

That's fascist, isn't it?