What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yup... except they can't actually vote for a long time, but never mind.

At least not legally.

The big plan is to stuff as many of these minorities into the country as they can. If and when they regain total power of the federal government, grant citizenship to all the illegals who would then be eligible to vote.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Are you serious? Gizmodo for your evidence? Here, try a real source:

Border Patrol agents back Trump wall, survey finds

Dude, you went with the newspaper owned by the Moonie Church, and you complain about other people's sources?

At least it's a legitimate source, I have no idea WTF you found those other guys at.

It's test time: who did the border patrol endorse for President, Trump or Hil-Liar? And why?

 

[JoeB131]

At least not legally.

The big plan is to stuff as many of these minorities into the country as they can. If and when they regain total power of the federal government, grant citizenship to all the illegals who would then be eligible to vote.

Works for me.

Here's the real problem your side has.

You haven't won a straight up national vote save one time since 1988.

If it werent' for shit like Gerrymandering and the Electoral College, you guys wouldn't be in power now.

Now, Bush understood that the GOP needed to win over minorities, which is why he's the only Republican who won more than 50% since his daddy in 1988.

But the nativists in your party said, "Fuck that!" and went full racist.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Budget $4 Trillion a year

21 to build it once. Far less to maintain it.

And it saves the people hundreds of billions a year at all levels of government.

But if you really want to see that $21 billion is a pittance in our budget, pretend it's a welfare program. Then a $1T is a pittance to you

Welfare programs do a lot of good.

Walls are fucking worthless. People just climb over them.

You see, this is where you are kind of confused. The Rich People who run real businesses don't want illegal aliens to stop coming. They WANT that cheap labor as an option.

/——/ But their cheap illegal labor undercuts the minimum wage you cherish. Dem Dianne Finestein said so in 1994. Google it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Budget $4 Trillion a year

21 to build it once. Far less to maintain it.

And it saves the people hundreds of billions a year at all levels of government.

But if you really want to see that $21 billion is a pittance in our budget, pretend it's a welfare program. Then a $1T is a pittance to you

Welfare programs do a lot of good.

Walls are fucking worthless. People just climb over them.

You see, this is where you are kind of confused. The Rich People who run real businesses don't want illegal aliens to stop coming. They WANT that cheap labor as an option.

Yes they do, and this is why we citizens need to take action to stop them, such as building a wall.

 

[JoeB131]

At least it's a legitimate source, I have no idea WTF you found those other guys at.

The Moonie Times isn't a legitimate source.

One of those articles was from the Cato institute.

You know, a respected conservative think tank before the GOP became the Cult of Trump.

It's test time: who did the border patrol endorse for President, Trump or Hil-Liar? And why?

Who cares?

Not even going to bother looking it up. I'm sure the Border Patrol, one of the least respected federal agencies, probably like the idea of Trump showering money on them like they were a cheap Adult Movie Actress.

 

[Cellblock2429]

At least it's a legitimate source, I have no idea WTF you found those other guys at.

The Moonie Times isn't a legitimate source.

One of those articles was from the Cato institute.

You know, a respected conservative think tank before the GOP became the Cult of Trump.

It's test time: who did the border patrol endorse for President, Trump or Hil-Liar? And why?

Who cares?

Not even going to bother looking it up. I'm sure the Border Patrol, one of the least respected federal agencies, probably like the idea of Trump showering money on them like they were a cheap Adult Movie Actress.

/——/ Border Patrol is the least respected??? Where besides your local DNC headquarters??

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

At least not legally.

The big plan is to stuff as many of these minorities into the country as they can. If and when they regain total power of the federal government, grant citizenship to all the illegals who would then be eligible to vote.

Works for me.

Here's the real problem your side has.

You haven't won a straight up national vote save one time since 1988.

If it werent' for shit like Gerrymandering and the Electoral College, you guys wouldn't be in power now.

Now, Bush understood that the GOP needed to win over minorities, which is why he's the only Republican who won more than 50% since his daddy in 1988.

But the nativists in your party said, "Fuck that!" and went full racist.

Bush is a moderate just like any other; Democrat lite.

It's amazing how brainwashed you leftists are. Your puppet masters tell you something, and you just believe it without thought:

Trump won: Russia, Comey, electoral college, air time for Trump,

Bush 2nd election: Diebold machines, gerrymandering.

Bush 1st election: punch card ballots, Supreme Court, hanging chads.

Republicans take leadership of Congress: Gerrymandering, Voter-ID.

Are you starting to see a pattern here yet Joe? Isn't it obvious what they are telling you?

If the Democrats ever told you the truth, it would knock the wind out of your sails, and that is the GOP is long from dead. It's just brainwashing trying to convince you Socialism has finally arrived. If they told you the truth, many would not come out to vote any longer. So they lie to try and convince you they were right all along, it's just that the Republicans cheated somehow. But don't worry, conservatism is dead.........really......

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Moonie Times isn't a legitimate source.

One of those articles was from the Cato institute.

You know, a respected conservative think tank before the GOP became the Cult of Trump.

So? Conservatives often differ in opinion. We don't march in lockstep like Democrats doing whatever they say.

The border patrol knows that a wall will make their life much easier. Less effort into nabbing the SOB's and more time preventing it. It may even save lives.

Who cares?

Not even going to bother looking it up.

Can't blame you there.

I'm sure the Border Patrol, one of the least respected federal agencies, probably like the idea of Trump showering money on them like they were a cheap Adult Movie Actress.

Who said they were one of the least respected agencies? I would say the FBI wins that race.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yeah, sure they will. They wouldn't just get a job, they'd commit murder instead. That makes a lot of sense. And how will this individual feed his family in prison for 25 years?

again, working on the assumption they can get jobs, and that they are thinking rationally when they are starving.

There are more jobs than workers today. There is no reason to be on FS unless you are physically or mentally incapable of holding a job.

I know you won't read the link, so I'll tell you what Maine did. They instituted requirements to receive food stamps. These are people with no dependents:

Have a job working at least 20 hours a week.
Volunteer at least 20 hours a month.
Be enrolled in a vocation program.

Do you know what the results were? Most of those people dropped out of the program. Guess they weren't that hungry after all. Many conservative run states did the same thing getting the same results, and guess what? Nobody got killed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Guy you didn't put a salary on it... you just put a list of requirements that you wanted, and this job met them.

Geezus, man, I'm spending more time looking at your failed career than you are.

Five minutes on a job site, I found a job you qualified for that offered health insurance... so much for the whiny "I can't find a job" when you don't even fucking try.

Under that guise, you can say I could work at McDonald's too, but that doesn't qualify for a real job.

When we discuss minimum wage, I suggest that those people work more hours. You on the left claim that's uncalled for. Nobody should have to work more than 40 hours to make a living.

And here you are, trying to tell me about jobs I already know pay shit. You don't even know the company AIM. Their tractors are ten years old and pure garbage. You might make money when the thing is running or if the DOT cops don't have you pulled over for an inspection. And guess what? That job will be posted for the next several weeks or until a foreigner takes the job.

I'm not 25 years old. I can't be hopping up and down off of a flatbed even if it did pay anything. And take note that they offer insurance, not provide it. In other words, besides the crap money, they want an employee contribution as well.

You only make $14.00 an hour now, what are you whining about?

Oh, did I let the secret out of the bag again?

You have no idea what I make, but I can tell you it's been many years since I worked for $14.00 an hour.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/——/ Welfare is a giveaway. The rich earned their wealth.

The rich earned their wealth? Are you that stupid? The Walton’s earned nothing. Sam Walton earned their wealth. The Waltons sit on their asses and collect dividends off the work if others.

The rich have a tax code that keeps wealth flowing to the top. They have labour laws which allow them to deny health care or benefits to workers, and to pay them so little their workers need welfare to supplement their incomes.

They appoint a burger flipper as “manager” so they can work him/her 60 hours a week without paying overtime.

Other countries put their people first. America puts their corporations first, and the wealthy second. Working men and women, who make up the vast majority of your population are denigrated, abused and paid the least amount possible.

If the Walton's don't do anything, why don't the workers leave and open up their own store?

In a history of stupid posts, this is by far the dumbest thing ever.

You bitch about your job endlessly. Why don’t you quit and open your own trucking company, or become an independent hauler?

Yeah, I thought about that many times. But I already have a side business that keeps me occupied. I don't need two businesses.

And why is my remark stupid? Is it because you can't answer my question?

Yes, the workers work. That's what they get paid to do. But the workers didn't come up with the hundreds of thousands of dollars to open up that store. The workers couldn't pay the utilities or taxes. The workers couldn't compete with similar stores if they paid themselves great money. The workers don't have an office staff to handle government regulations, payroll, billers and paperwork pushers. They don't have the resources to even open up such an office. They don't have to spend the money for snow removal or lot maintenance.

What the Walton's have done is provide a place for people to work. Without them, some of those people wouldn't have any kind of job at all. They spent money to create the idea, the structure, the organization. They risked their own money. That's what they do.

Just because they don't sweep floors doesn't mean they are not earning their money. In the event you didn't know, investment is where you do spend your own money hoping for a return plus profit.

Good for them now tax them please.... Your hero worship is touching.Why are we the only modern country without Healthcare daycare good vacations cheap college and training good infrastructure living wage, super duper? 35 years of GOP giveaway to the rich.

You mean we are the only country where people take care of themselves? My Lord, what an awful place.

 

[Flopper]

What a shocking revaluation. Democrats don't have to say or do anything to attract Hispanic voters. Donald Trump does it all. He calls them rapist and murders. Says migrants come from shit hole countries. Blames our drug problems on Mexico. Wants to make Mexico pay the cost of defending our border with a wall. Wants to make it impossible for them to bring their families to the US. And he hovers over a taco salad proclaiming, "I love Hispanics."

/——/ One has nothing to do with the other. Maybe if you loved Americans you’d support a strong border.

I believe it's our responsibility to protect our borders. Asking Mexico a country whose GDP is 5% of ours to pay for defense our border is downright embarrassing. If the mightiest nation on earth can't defend it's borders against peasants, mostly women and children, maybe it doesn't deserve those borders.

So Mexico (who helped usher in this current group of people) have no responsibility for what's going on? They allow this to happen. They encourage it to happen, but it's our fault.

What do you think Canada would say if we sent Mexicans to their border? You know, allow them to ride a train all the way up north, then dump those people on them?

Of course it would be our fault. We helped these people get to that border. We didn't stop them, we didn't try.

The Mexican government turned back 400 people at the border because they were not allowed to enter Mexico.

The Mexican government allowed the remainder to enter Mexico legally. The government had no legal grounds to stop them from traveling to the US border to petition for asylum. The government did not transport, lodge or feed them. Private organizations helped them and in some towns, food and lodging was provided by the people.

It appears the only people that encouraged any criminal act were border guards that refused to let petitioners put foot on US soil to petition for asylum leaving them no choice but to unlawfully enter the country.

I hope you're not saying Mexico allowing asylum seekers to petition the US is why they should pay for a 20 billion wall to protect the Unities States. That's pretty far fetched.

Regardless of any action of Mexico, it is the responsibility of the US to protect it's border and certainly not Mexico's responsibility. Asking the Mexican goverment to protect the US border is completely insane.

It appears Trump is trying to work some deal with Mexico so they will stop asylum seekers who can enter Mexico legally at Guatemalan border. Hopefully, Mexico will give him the big FU.

/——/ You’re just making stuff up. Mexico has every legal right to stop anyone from entering their country for any reason. Your entire post is pure conjecture and wishful thinking.

Mexico has no reason whatsoever to stop migrants seeking asylum in the US. They have broken no Mexican laws and can legally remain in Mexico for up to 180 days. Again, you people are expecting Mexico to defend US boarders. You accuse them of sending rapists and murders to the US, compare them to animals and then you expect their help.

 

[Kondor3]

...The thing is, you dumb rednecks who live in mortal fear that a Mexican might date your daughter....

Typical LibProg ploy attempting to portray their political opponents as less intelligent than they are.

They DO seem to resort to that most frequently when they realize that nobody's buying into their arguments any longer and there's nothing left to do but strike outwards.

...you don't count...

Incorrect... given the results of the November 8, 2016 election, it's more like the LibProgs who don't count in our present age. Enjoying your time on the sidelines?

...I'm sorry Trump let you think you did.

Most Republicans (I'm not one, myself) of my acquaintance think the Imperial Cheeto is full of $hit, but they're hopeful he'll come through on a couple of related promises.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath for any of those to materialize, but it DOES provide endless amusement, watching LibProg Children wailing and gnashing their teeth.

 

[Kondor3]

...Mexico has no reason whatsoever to stop migrants seeking asylum in the US...

True.

It's time to GIVE them a reason to stop the flow.

 

[Flopper]

And continued advocacy by White Folk, FOR White Folk, will ensure that they CONTINUE to have all the advantages.

Until we are a minority in this country, then we are kind of in for it.

Hey, here's a crazy idea.. how about we actually have equality for all, so when we ARE a minority, they really can't excuse doing to us the same shit we've been doing to them?

Naw... that would actually, you know, be a decent thing to do.

Well, I'll probably be dead by then, so I don't care.

Death rates of whites in America now exceed birth rates, a trend that started decades ago is accelerating. Also the number of mixed race marriages and births are increasing. Maybe in a hundred years we'll see the end of discrimination based on skin color. It will then be the blue eyes vs the brown eyes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/——/ One has nothing to do with the other. Maybe if you loved Americans you’d support a strong border.

I believe it's our responsibility to protect our borders. Asking Mexico a country whose GDP is 5% of ours to pay for defense our border is downright embarrassing. If the mightiest nation on earth can't defend it's borders against peasants, mostly women and children, maybe it doesn't deserve those borders.

So Mexico (who helped usher in this current group of people) have no responsibility for what's going on? They allow this to happen. They encourage it to happen, but it's our fault.

What do you think Canada would say if we sent Mexicans to their border? You know, allow them to ride a train all the way up north, then dump those people on them?

Of course it would be our fault. We helped these people get to that border. We didn't stop them, we didn't try.

The Mexican government turned back 400 people at the border because they were not allowed to enter Mexico.

The Mexican government allowed the remainder to enter Mexico legally. The government had no legal grounds to stop them from traveling to the US border to petition for asylum. The government did not transport, lodge or feed them. Private organizations helped them and in some towns, food and lodging was provided by the people.

It appears the only people that encouraged any criminal act were border guards that refused to let petitioners put foot on US soil to petition for asylum leaving them no choice but to unlawfully enter the country.

I hope you're not saying Mexico allowing asylum seekers to petition the US is why they should pay for a 20 billion wall to protect the Unities States. That's pretty far fetched.

Regardless of any action of Mexico, it is the responsibility of the US to protect it's border and certainly not Mexico's responsibility. Asking the Mexican goverment to protect the US border is completely insane.

It appears Trump is trying to work some deal with Mexico so they will stop asylum seekers who can enter Mexico legally at Guatemalan border. Hopefully, Mexico will give him the big FU.

/——/ You’re just making stuff up. Mexico has every legal right to stop anyone from entering their country for any reason. Your entire post is pure conjecture and wishful thinking.

Mexico has no reason whatsoever to stop migrants seeking asylum in the US. They have broken no Mexican laws and can legally remain in Mexico for up to 180 days. Again, you people are expecting Mexico to defend US boarders. You accuse them of sending rapists and murders to the US, compare them to animals and then you expect their help.

Just because they aren't breaking any laws doesn't mean what they are doing is right. If we had a totally closed border with no asylum, Mexico would have stopped those people the minute they crossed their border. They never would have come close to the US.

But because Mexico let them in and gave them their blessings, now it became our problem.

 

[Flopper]

...Mexico has no reason whatsoever to stop migrants seeking asylum in the US...

True.

It's time to GIVE them a reason to stop the flow.

Compared to the US, Mexican boarders are pretty open. People from Central America flow into Mexico as easy as US tourist enter Mexico. There are no visas or passports required. Restricting travelers from Central America would be a difficult decision for Mexico.

 

[Flopper]

Okay, you see, if the law applies equally to everyone, then it's not an abuse.

You can't refuse service to gay people if you are an atheist who hates gays, and you can't refuse service to gay people if you are a religous person who hates gays.

It's not a law, it's a protection. Learn the difference.

Homosexuality is against most religious creeds. It's in the Holy Bible. You can't tell somebody you won't bake a cake because you hate them, but you can say you won't participate in their ritual because it goes against your religious beliefs.

Religious beliefs aside, there is a moral or offensive part of this. If the KKK came to your town for a party, and went to a black baker asking for a cake showing a black man being hung, should the government allow that black baker to be sued to the point of having to close up his business because he refused to make that particular cake?

Sorry, I can't be responsible for your ignorance. YOu need to get out more. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people who are clearly NOT disabled bringing their dogs into a public place.

Service Animal Scams: A Growing Problem

I also discovered a host of dubious service and emotional support animal "registries." For example, the United States Dog Registry will certify any dog as a “service dog” or a "therapy dog" for $58, and an outfit called ESA of America will happily certify your pet rat, hamster, or iguana as an “emotional support animal.” (Sample ESA customer testimonial–“I have now taken 3 flights with my dog, and the peace of mind of being able to just pack up and go anywhere I want with him is the greatest thing ever.")

Then I began to ask around about bogus assistance animals and immediately began to hear stories. A high profile animal activist confessed to me that several of his friends had purchased phony service vests so they could take their pets into restaurants (he refuses to go out to eat with those friends anymore). And my daughter told me about a woman she knows who got a free flight for her dog to Southeast Asia by having a social worker pal write letter a saying the pet provided her with emotional support (while the ruse worked, the dog did have to wear a canine diaper on the trip).

Right, and people are going through all that just in case they get a Muslim cab driver that doesn't want their dog in the cab.

It all depends on the type of discrimination and the public accommodations laws of the state which define what type of discrimination in public accommodations is illegal. Federal law prevents discrimination based on race, color, place of origin, religion, and disabilities.

 

[Flopper]

Trump is proposing cutting legal immigration.

Republicans balk at Trump’s cuts to legal immigration

Trump says one thing today and does the opposite tomorrow. A year or so ago he was supporting a plan to cut immigration in half.
Trump Supports Plan to Cut Legal Immigration by Half

I've conversed with a lot people about illegal immigration and the one thing that stands out is that most people that feel strongly about stopping illegal immigration think legal immigration should be reduced or abolished. They just don't want all those Hispanics, Africans, and Asians in their country regardless of how they got here.

Or maybe we feel that they are not assimilating in our country very well and need more time.

That depends of what you mean by assimilation. It's going to take quite a while to change their skin color and eliminate all trace of their heritage, like about 100 years.

/——/ it has nothing to do with changing skin color you freakin moron. It means blending into our society

I said, "That depends of what you mean by assimilation. It's going to take quite a while to change their skin color and eliminate all trace of their heritage, like about 100 years." That was not to be taken literally. Maybe I should have said "like never" and you would understand.