What happens when you follow the constitution at an internal DHS checkpoint?

[Reasoning]

What happens when you assert your rights protected by the constitution at an internal DHS checkpoint?

This happens...

What Happens When You Insist on Your 5th Amendment Rights to Not Answer Questions or Show Your Papers to Immigration Cops in an Empty Desert Somewhere? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

 

[SFC Ollie]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

 

[Reasoning]

The police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

What law could have been perceived to have been broken?

What threat could have been perceived to have been construed?

 

[Oddball]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Wait a minute....He was also released.

What are the dickweeds who foist this bullshit upon obviously innocent Americans accomplishing?

How many REAL crooks are they allowing to slip by for this Kabuki dance?

 

[SFC Ollie]

If I read this right it was an internal boarder patrol checkpoint. They have some that are fixed and some that they move around. I remember getting stopped at one half way between Corpus Christi and Laredo.

No biggy are you American? Yes, from me my wife and her mother. (Remember the Mrs is American of Mexican decent)

Where do you live?

Corpus Christie.

And where are you coming from?

My father in laws grave in Laredo.

Thank you sir have a pleasant day.


Simple and we were on our way in less than a minute.

Why were they there? I hope to look for illegals.

Did it infringe upon my rights? I don't think so.

 

[Reasoning]

If I read this right it was an internal boarder patrol checkpoint. They have some that are fixed and some that they move around. I remember getting stopped at one half way between Corpus Christi and Laredo.

No biggy are you American? Yes, from me my wife and her mother. (Remember the Mrs is American of Mexican decent)

Where do you live?

Corpus Christie.

And where are you coming from?

My father in laws grave in Laredo.

Thank you sir have a pleasant day.


Simple and we were on our way in less than a minute.

Why were they there? I hope to look for illegals.

Did it infringe upon my rights? I don't think so.

They didn't infringe upon your rights because you chose to voulentarily give them information.

That's fine if you're okay with the exponential expansion of DHS internal checkpoints.

Now if you had gotten a bad vibe from the agents and had decided to not answer their questions for any reason that is fine as well according to the constitution anyway...

 

[California Girl]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Wait a minute....He was also released.

What are the dickweeds who foist this bullshit upon obviously innocent Americans accomplishing?

How many REAL crooks are they allowing to slip by for this Kabuki dance?

And how, exactly, are the cops supposed to know who these 'REAL' crooks are? Do they have labels or some identifying mark?

 

[whitehall]

"Indefinite Detention"? Say what? The last time the United States revoked "habius corpus" was during which administration? No, it wasn't Nixon. It was Abe Lincoln.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Funny thing is you have no problem with a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, yet you oppose them exercising their 5th Amendment rights. Rights are rights, and the more people assert the ones you don't like, like remaining silent, the easier it is for you to assert the ones you do. I would be willing to bet that if a police officer wanted to take away your guns the guy you just called a joker would be right there saying you have every right under the constitution to have them.

 

[Reasoning]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Funny thing is you have no problem with a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, yet you oppose them exercising their 5th Amendment rights. Rights are rights, and the more people assert the ones you don't like, like remaining silent, the easier it is for you to assert the ones you do. I would be willing to bet that if a police officer wanted to take away your guns the guy you just called a joker would be right there saying you have every right under the constitution to have them.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Funny thing is you have no problem with a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, yet you oppose them exercising their 5th Amendment rights. Rights are rights, and the more people assert the ones you don't like, like remaining silent, the easier it is for you to assert the ones you do. I would be willing to bet that if a police officer wanted to take away your guns the guy you just called a joker would be right there saying you have every right under the constitution to have them.

So you have a problem with cooperating with the authorities? Is there something illegal or anti-constitutional about the way our border patrol acts? if so we better change the constitution or simply give up and invite the entire world to live here while we pay for it.
I did not say to surrender your 5th amendment rights, But to follow the law and not to be an asshole. I could have refused to answer the simple questions, but why? What exactly does it gain anyone to refuse these simple questions that might help identify an illegal? Is this undue harassment? I don't think so.

 

[editec]

4th amendment rights?

Please stop!

My sides are hurting from all the laughing I'm doing at those of you who imagine that you really have the right from search and seizure.

You have whatever rights the cop on the beat is willing to grant you at that time.

That's it, folks.

The probability that you have any meaningful protections is in direct proportion to the amount of money you have to defend then AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN VIOLATED.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

What did this joker accomplish?

He wasted 2 hours of his own time.

He wasted the money it cost the highway patrol to send a patrolman.

And he is fortunate that he didn't get a free ride to a holding area until he could talk to a lawyer and be sent on his way from there.

All in all, an idiot. I'll bet he is also against closing the borders.

Funny thing is you have no problem with a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, yet you oppose them exercising their 5th Amendment rights. Rights are rights, and the more people assert the ones you don't like, like remaining silent, the easier it is for you to assert the ones you do. I would be willing to bet that if a police officer wanted to take away your guns the guy you just called a joker would be right there saying you have every right under the constitution to have them.

So you have a problem with cooperating with the authorities? Is there something illegal or anti-constitutional about the way our border patrol acts? if so we better change the constitution or simply give up and invite the entire world to live here while we pay for it.
I did not say to surrender your 5th amendment rights, But to follow the law and not to be an asshole. I could have refused to answer the simple questions, but why? What exactly does it gain anyone to refuse these simple questions that might help identify an illegal? Is this undue harassment? I don't think so.

I do if they insist on asking people a question after they assert their right to remain silent, just like I do if they insist on taking away the other 9 Amendments in the bill of rights. What if you are driving along a back road in Arizona and come across a ICE checkpoint and they decide to take away your guns because you do not have a carry permit, which you are not required to have in that state. Would you have a problem with that, or would you insist that you have a constitutional right to keep, and bear, arms? Would you simply drive off after they take your weapons because they are just doing there job and you don't want to be an asshole?

That guy was not an asshole, and asking a person about citizenship is not legal. The law states that ICE is to assume that anyone they encounter is a US citizen unless they have probable cause to suspect otherwise. You do not have to prove you are a citizen, nor do you have to answer questions about it unless you are actually crossing the border. The only people that are required to answer these types of questions are people that are visiting the US on a visa, and legal, or illegal, aliens. The rest of us can freely ignore ICE if they approach us. If that young man had, as you are implying, been under some sort of legal obligation to prove anything he would not have been released when CHP showed up. In fact, CHP would not have been called at all, because ICE is a law enforcement agency, and is perfectly capable of arresting anyone that breaks any laws.

It is not undue harassment, whatever that means, to ask about a person's citizenship. It is, however, harassment to detain a person for not answering.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Funny thing is you have no problem with a person exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, yet you oppose them exercising their 5th Amendment rights. Rights are rights, and the more people assert the ones you don't like, like remaining silent, the easier it is for you to assert the ones you do. I would be willing to bet that if a police officer wanted to take away your guns the guy you just called a joker would be right there saying you have every right under the constitution to have them.

So you have a problem with cooperating with the authorities? Is there something illegal or anti-constitutional about the way our border patrol acts? if so we better change the constitution or simply give up and invite the entire world to live here while we pay for it.
I did not say to surrender your 5th amendment rights, But to follow the law and not to be an asshole. I could have refused to answer the simple questions, but why? What exactly does it gain anyone to refuse these simple questions that might help identify an illegal? Is this undue harassment? I don't think so.

I do if they insist on asking people a question after they assert their right to remain silent, just like I do if they insist on taking away the other 9 Amendments in the bill of rights. What if you are driving along a back road in Arizona and come across a ICE checkpoint and they decide to take away your guns because you do not have a carry permit, which you are not required to have in that state. Would you have a problem with that, or would you insist that you have a constitutional right to keep, and bear, arms? Would you simply drive off after they take your weapons because they are just doing there job and you don't want to be an asshole?

That guy was not an asshole, and asking a person about citizenship is not legal. The law states that ICE is to assume that anyone they encounter is a US citizen unless they have probable cause to suspect otherwise. You do not have to prove you are a citizen, nor do you have to answer questions about it unless you are actually crossing the border. The only people that are required to answer these types of questions are people that are visiting the US on a visa, and legal, or illegal, aliens. The rest of us can freely ignore ICE if they approach us. If that young man had, as you are implying, been under some sort of legal obligation to prove anything he would not have been released when CHP showed up. In fact, CHP would not have been called at all, because ICE is a law enforcement agency, and is perfectly capable of arresting anyone that breaks any laws.

It is not undue harassment, whatever that means, to ask about a person's citizenship. It is, however, harassment to detain a person for not answering.

First off I seriously doubt that anyone has ever had their weapons illegally confiscated at one of these checkpoints. Unless of course they were being an asshole.

Now please provide a link to this law that you know so well. I find it hard to believe that ICE asking if you are a citizen is illegal. After all that is their job. It's what we pay them for. You want to stack the deck against them so that they cannot ask someone a perfectly logical question.

It's my job to stop illegals but I can't ask them if they are illegal????? WTF? Keep your job, and welcome to anarchy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So you have a problem with cooperating with the authorities? Is there something illegal or anti-constitutional about the way our border patrol acts? if so we better change the constitution or simply give up and invite the entire world to live here while we pay for it.
I did not say to surrender your 5th amendment rights, But to follow the law and not to be an asshole. I could have refused to answer the simple questions, but why? What exactly does it gain anyone to refuse these simple questions that might help identify an illegal? Is this undue harassment? I don't think so.

I do if they insist on asking people a question after they assert their right to remain silent, just like I do if they insist on taking away the other 9 Amendments in the bill of rights. What if you are driving along a back road in Arizona and come across a ICE checkpoint and they decide to take away your guns because you do not have a carry permit, which you are not required to have in that state. Would you have a problem with that, or would you insist that you have a constitutional right to keep, and bear, arms? Would you simply drive off after they take your weapons because they are just doing there job and you don't want to be an asshole?

That guy was not an asshole, and asking a person about citizenship is not legal. The law states that ICE is to assume that anyone they encounter is a US citizen unless they have probable cause to suspect otherwise. You do not have to prove you are a citizen, nor do you have to answer questions about it unless you are actually crossing the border. The only people that are required to answer these types of questions are people that are visiting the US on a visa, and legal, or illegal, aliens. The rest of us can freely ignore ICE if they approach us. If that young man had, as you are implying, been under some sort of legal obligation to prove anything he would not have been released when CHP showed up. In fact, CHP would not have been called at all, because ICE is a law enforcement agency, and is perfectly capable of arresting anyone that breaks any laws.

It is not undue harassment, whatever that means, to ask about a person's citizenship. It is, however, harassment to detain a person for not answering.

First off I seriously doubt that anyone has ever had their weapons illegally confiscated at one of these checkpoints. Unless of course they were being an asshole.

Now please provide a link to this law that you know so well. I find it hard to believe that ICE asking if you are a citizen is illegal. After all that is their job. It's what we pay them for. You want to stack the deck against them so that they cannot ask someone a perfectly logical question.

It's my job to stop illegals but I can't ask them if they are illegal????? WTF? Keep your job, and welcome to anarchy.

It doesn't matter if you are an asshole or not. US law allows CBP to search anyone within 25 miles of the border. No warrant, no probable cause. All they need is a hair up their ass and your proximity to a US border. During that search they can take anything they want, including your computer or guns, and hold it for a reasonable amount of time for investigation.

Why do I need to provide a link to the law that you do not have to declare citizenship when asked? The fact that the two people in this story did not get arrested, or cited, for not answering the question proves that you do not have to answer the question.

I did not say that ICE cannot ask the question, I said that you, as a US citizen, are not required to answer. Resident aliens and visitors with a visa are required to produce proof of their immigration status, and, if they do not, can be detained until that status is determined. They can also face a fine, jail time, and possible deportation.

I grew up in El Paso, and I heard all sorts of fairy tails about what La Migra can, and cannot, do. I checked it out for myself.

 

[George Costanza]

If I read this right it was an internal boarder patrol checkpoint. They have some that are fixed and some that they move around. I remember getting stopped at one half way between Corpus Christi and Laredo.

No biggy are you American? Yes, from me my wife and her mother. (Remember the Mrs is American of Mexican decent)

Where do you live?

Corpus Christie.

And where are you coming from?

My father in laws grave in Laredo.

Thank you sir have a pleasant day.


Simple and we were on our way in less than a minute.

Why were they there? I hope to look for illegals.

Did it infringe upon my rights? I don't think so.

What if you had been a "legal American," but had happened to have had a little grass in a baggie sitting there on the back seat? But for this 4th Amendment violating checkpoint, you would have been going on your merry way.

Would you still feel so tolerant toward the check point then?

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you consider checkpoints for ANY reason to be a violation of the 4th Amendment?

Or do we assume that once we are on a public highway we are subject to scrutiny for the general welfare of everybody else who shares that highway?

Is your vehicle roadworthy? Properly tagged? Registered to you or legally in your possession?

Do you have a valid driver's license and minimal required insurance?

Are you a citizen or in this country legally?

If nobody is ever allowed to check these things, there wouldn't be much incentive to follow the law huh? A whole lot of people would just take their chances that they wouldn't commit a violation or have an accident and could just save all the lovely money necessary to be legal.

 

[Bones]

You have the right to remain silent. So very true. And the police have the duty to arrest you if they perceive that you have broken the law or pose a threat to another person or yourself.

And what right does the police have to stop and ask for your papers? Remember that stylish, German regime in the 1930s-40s who asked its citizens "Deine papiers, bitte!"? Sound familiar?

Now anyone who refuses to co-operate with the legal authorities probably is a douche bag.

Even if what is asked of the person is absolutely intrusive and unnecessary?

What did this joker accomplish?

He shows us that some folks don't rollover and bark on command like the majority of Americans do.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I do if they insist on asking people a question after they assert their right to remain silent, just like I do if they insist on taking away the other 9 Amendments in the bill of rights. What if you are driving along a back road in Arizona and come across a ICE checkpoint and they decide to take away your guns because you do not have a carry permit, which you are not required to have in that state. Would you have a problem with that, or would you insist that you have a constitutional right to keep, and bear, arms? Would you simply drive off after they take your weapons because they are just doing there job and you don't want to be an asshole?

That guy was not an asshole, and asking a person about citizenship is not legal. The law states that ICE is to assume that anyone they encounter is a US citizen unless they have probable cause to suspect otherwise. You do not have to prove you are a citizen, nor do you have to answer questions about it unless you are actually crossing the border. The only people that are required to answer these types of questions are people that are visiting the US on a visa, and legal, or illegal, aliens. The rest of us can freely ignore ICE if they approach us. If that young man had, as you are implying, been under some sort of legal obligation to prove anything he would not have been released when CHP showed up. In fact, CHP would not have been called at all, because ICE is a law enforcement agency, and is perfectly capable of arresting anyone that breaks any laws.

It is not undue harassment, whatever that means, to ask about a person's citizenship. It is, however, harassment to detain a person for not answering.

First off I seriously doubt that anyone has ever had their weapons illegally confiscated at one of these checkpoints. Unless of course they were being an asshole.

Now please provide a link to this law that you know so well. I find it hard to believe that ICE asking if you are a citizen is illegal. After all that is their job. It's what we pay them for. You want to stack the deck against them so that they cannot ask someone a perfectly logical question.

It's my job to stop illegals but I can't ask them if they are illegal????? WTF? Keep your job, and welcome to anarchy.

It doesn't matter if you are an asshole or not. US law allows CBP to search anyone within 25 miles of the border. No warrant, no probable cause. All they need is a hair up their ass and your proximity to a US border. During that search they can take anything they want, including your computer or guns, and hold it for a reasonable amount of time for investigation.

Why do I need to provide a link to the law that you do not have to declare citizenship when asked? The fact that the two people in this story did not get arrested, or cited, for not answering the question proves that you do not have to answer the question.

I did not say that ICE cannot ask the question, I said that you, as a US citizen, are not required to answer. Resident aliens and visitors with a visa are required to produce proof of their immigration status, and, if they do not, can be detained until that status is determined. They can also face a fine, jail time, and possible deportation.

I grew up in El Paso, and I heard all sorts of fairy tails about what La Migra can, and cannot, do. I checked it out for myself.

Why? Because you keep quoting this law but you don't back it up.

And yes you did say they could not ask the question.

But whatever floats your boat, we can see you could care less about sealing the borders and cooperating with authority. Again, welcome to anarchy.

 

[Reasoning]

Excellent legal oriented analysis on this incident provided here @

https://www.checkpointusa.org/blog/index.php/2010/10/10/p227