Carl in Michigan
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They are sleeping in the GRAVE until He Returns.
Jesus said, "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN EXCEPT THE SON OF MAN WHO CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN."
What does Jesus say to the people he brought to heaven when young?
- Thread starter Wyatt earp
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Jesus said, "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN EXCEPT THE SON OF MAN WHO CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN."
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
Because of the nature of the questions and the way you respond when we answer.
Comparison: I am not mad at the Tooth Fairy. Even though every young student I teach believes in the Tooth Fairy, I do not. So I don't need people to defend the TF to me or ask hard questions about the TF. I do not care.
I find atheists who take the above approach much more credible than those who are very angry. Why would you be angry at someone you believe is false, non-existent?
Wyatt earp
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Could it be your answers don't make sense is the reason I seem angry?
BreezeWood
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fate can be beyond a persons control ... and - never to young to be judged. is the problem for the paintings consolement.
SweetSue92
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No. Anyone could give me reasons they believe in the Tooth Fairy all day long. I don't care. Why do you care?
Meriweather
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Har Meggido. John was using symbolism to talk to the early Christians of the first and second centuries. He spoke it terms they knew, but would be hidden from the Romans. The Plains of Meggido was a famous battle ground; we hear of a few of these battles in both Judges and Kings. Har (or the mount) of Meggido was made from the remains of at least twenty-two ancient cities. The people of John's time would recall that Ezekiel said the final battle between Gog and Magog would be in the hills of Israel.
In John's time people were of the mind that even a great ruler could not bring everlasting peace, prosperity, and good will to Earth. It would take God Himself coming to earth for this to happen.
Try thinking more in terms of our history is our future; and those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. No doubt our future holds more great wars. John notes that this happens when the people of earth listen more to their earthly leaders and their divisions than they pay attention to God.
If we listen to Biblical wisdom of old, we hear the ancients warn that troubled times begin with the lack of self-discipline--and that can be especially seen in the lack of sexual discipline. It warns that when people are divided by their leaders and they pay less attention to God, wars break out. Our ancestors are calling to us, "This is what happened to us. Don't let it happen to you."
We are letting it happen to us. As always, children fail to heed adults, preferring to make their own way, and learn from their own mistakes.
One of the greatest reasons we come to this earth is to receive a body. Jesus received a body and was the first to resurrect and become immortal. It is promised that we all will eventually be resurrected and become immortal. Perhaps this is why when we come this world, the first thing is that we receive a body of flesh and bones. I believe that even God our Eternal Heavenly Father has a body of flesh and bones. The scriptures tell us that Jesus is the express image of the Father (Hebrews 1:1-3). If Jesus can have all power in heaven and on earth with a resurrected body of flesh and bones, certainly the Father can do so likewise.
God honors our free will in this life and thus allows the wicked to murder and accidents to happen. But there is a place after this mortal life where the spirits of the dead gather and are able to still receive the gospel of Jesus Christ prior to their resurrection (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18-20). Perhaps for those who are killed or die of sickness in their youth, maybe the suffering and death is all they needed to experience in this mortal life other than receiving a body of flesh and bones. Certainly little children sin far less than we who make it to adulthood.
Why do you think he needs to make an excuse?
In a world where man was predestined to have knowledge of good and evil, everything of worth is arrived at through a conflict and confusion process. Evil is the absence of good. The only value of evil is for good to come from it. Logically evil serves as the impetus for man to determine what is true. But we get to discover these truths on our own time rather than being forced to be virtuous. This is what it means to have knowledge of good and evil and this is the value of having knowledge of good and evil.
Bezukhov
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BreezeWood
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Everyone who worships God in spirit and truth. That's who we are. You aren't in that group that's why you didn't know who we are.
Everyone who worships God in spirit and truth knows and understands the Natural Law.
So I will say it again... In a world where man was predestined to have knowledge of good and evil, everything of worth is arrived at through a conflict and confusion process. Evil is the absence of good. The only value of evil is for good to come from it. Logically evil serves as the impetus for man to determine what is true. But we get to discover these truths on our own time rather than being forced to be virtuous. This is what it means to have knowledge of good and evil and this is the value of having knowledge of good and evil.
Jesus has said nothing to anyone that He has brought to heaven. Jesus has brought no one to heaven, as the final judgment and final reward are yet to occur.
1. Jesus has sent no one to heaven as the final judgment and reward are yet to occur. The spirits of the dead since the beginning of time are in Hades. At death (when the spirit that animates the flesh, leaves the physical body) the spirit goes back to the Lord God and the body goes back to the dust from which it was created (Genesis 2:7, Eccl. 12:7). The book of James tells us that the body without the spirit is dead. (James 2:26)
At death every soul goes to the waiting place called "Hades". It consists of 2 sections/parts (1.) a place of comfort to those who are saved. (2.) a place of suffering for those who died in their sins.
Jesus relates the parable about the souls of the righteous going to a comfortable place in Hades.....He told about a beggar named Lazarus who dies and, ".......was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom." -- Luke 16:22 He went to a place where he could enjoy companionship with Abraham.
In contrast to the beggar Lazarus Jesus tells of a rich man who, ".....also died and was buried. And being in torment in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus at the bosom of Abraham." (Luke 16:22-23)
The rich man later stated, ".....I am tormented in this flame" (Luke16:24) The rich man could not go where Abraham was as there was a great void between the 2 sections of Hades (16:26)
(Luke 23:43.) tells us about the thief on the cross who asked Jesus for forgiveness, the Christ told him, "........today you will be with Me in Paradise". The Greek word for paradise means "royal park" or "Garden". Thus, one section of Hades is also called Paradise for the dead spirits at rest in comfort awaiting the final judgement when Hades shall give up its dead, good and evil alike (Rev. 20:13) "..........And the sea gave up its dead which were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they all were judged everyone of them according to their deeds."
Point No. 2. Children die everyday, God makes no guarantees concerning life in this plane of physical reality. Men have been endowed with "Free Will", to know right from wrong, evil from good.....etc., The evil comit acts of evil and some people "freely" choose to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone is exercising their free will acts of evil. Its called LIFE and the rain falls on the just and the unjust.
Jesus has judged no man as of yet (and no child shall be judged as all are innocent until the age of accountability in knowing right from wrong) as Jesus still sets in reign as King on the right hand of God until Death is defeated and all the enemies are placed at the feet of the Son at the final judgment, then the Kingdom is handed back to the Father. (1 Cor. 15:20-28)
BreezeWood
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I do know who they are ...
and no, not a member of the clan - for you, choose something else is a suggestion to find a way to the heavens while on Earth.
- and take a stab at the differences between good and evil. can't make you any worse.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
You are incorrect. Jesus removed about 10,000 souls residing in Abraham's Bosom and they returned to earth with him, in their own new and glorified bodies, for forty days and went with him when he ascended. Those in Hades remain til the White Throne Judgement.
Ephesians 4:8-10 Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Those captives were those dead who were dedicated to God, but could not ascend to Heaven until their sins were paid for. God created a paradise for them to wait in, until Jesus came to collect them . Abraham, Sarah, King David, and others were among them...
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I do not know what "translation" you are using, but the canonized version of the Holy Scriptures in relation to the 4th Chapter of Ephesians is addressing the promised "Gifts of the Holy Spirits" that Jesus said He would empower the early church with after His ascension. (Acts 1:8-11). You are guilty of "cherry picking" a single sentence away from the contextual integrity of its subjective matter and personally attempting to interpret it to fit your false doctrine.
Read the Chapter. Verse 1 is addressing how the early church members should "walk worthy" of the vocation wherewith they are called. Verse 2 is suggesting that they go about their assigned/appointed duties (by the Holy Ghost) with, "all lowliness, longsuffering, forbearing one another in love". Verse 3 Always endeavoring (attempting) to keep the unity (speak as one) of the Spirit (capitalized...indicating the Spirit is the Holy Ghost)
Reality: Verses 4 - 6 are addressing the fact there is only ONE TRUE DOCTRINE OF FAITH, "There is only one body (the church), and One Spirit (the Holy Ghost), with the hope of One Calling (out from among the world)........not called up to heaven, but called out from the world, to worship in spirit and truth. One Lord (Jesus who is sitting on the right hand of God having ascended and defeated death, as King of Kings, as God has given Him all authority on earth and in heaven -- Matt. 28:18), One faith (the church He built, i.e, the spiritual kingdom of God -- Matt. 16), One Baptism, (Water, where you symbolically burry the old man to arise as a new man with a new birth, to wash away your Sin -- Acts 22:16), One God and Father of All....................... who said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased -- Matt. 3:17)
Verse 7 continues to address the gifts of the Spirit and how through grace they are granted accordingly......according to what measure that one has received the Gift of the Spirit.
Verse 8 clearly states, "Whereupon He saith, When He ascended on high (Jesus), He led captivity captive, (Jesus is speaking of being captive in His Tomb when He was killed but He held death (captivity).......Captive, the grave did not hold Him nor stop Him from ascending....................) AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MAN." (He gave gifts to men..........He did not take anyone to heaven, He is simply delivering the gifts of the Spirit as promised). And He had this authority to give the gifts of the Holy Spirit as granted by the Father when He was granted ALL AUTHORITY on earth and in heaven as detailed in Matt. 28:18
Again.........Jesus has taken no one to heaven, Jesus ascended alone and now sits in rule over His Kingdom, His church, at the right hand of God as described clearly in Acts 2. He will give the kingdom to Father God after at the final judgment (1 Cor. 15:20-28) where the dead are judged according to their deeds. (Rev. 20:13). The Spirits of the Dead are located in Hades, awaiting the final judgment.
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The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
What do you think Christians are judged for Clyde? If you say, "your sins", then God is a liar.
If Christ was already punished for your sins is God going to punish Christ and you too for the same offenses? Then God would not be just.
If you accept the exchange that happened on the cross, then God remembers your sins no more, has put them behind him and they are as far from you as the East is from the West.
Upon arrival in Heaven (sin free access only) at your coronation, your deeds will be forged and those deeds that were done for Christ's sake and not for your own ego, will determine the number of your crowns. Crowns that you will lay at the feet of Jesus, knowing that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Him. That is called the BEMA Judgement and the only judgement that awaits a human in Heaven. The final judgement, called the White Throne Judgement is for those who did not accept Christ's gift and are still dead in their sin.
He tells His children over and over:
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”
“I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.
As for everyone waiting for a final trial, Pauls disagrees. We go straight up:
But we are confident, and have a good will to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
When we accept Christ as our savior, to God, we look like Christ. All He sees is the righteousness of His Son.
If Christ was already punished for your sins is God going to punish Christ and you too for the same offenses? Then God would not be just.
If you accept the exchange that happened on the cross, then God remembers your sins no more, has put them behind him and they are as far from you as the East is from the West.
Upon arrival in Heaven (sin free access only) at your coronation, your deeds will be forged and those deeds that were done for Christ's sake and not for your own ego, will determine the number of your crowns. Crowns that you will lay at the feet of Jesus, knowing that you wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Him. That is called the BEMA Judgement and the only judgement that awaits a human in Heaven. The final judgement, called the White Throne Judgement is for those who did not accept Christ's gift and are still dead in their sin.
He tells His children over and over:
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”
“I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.
As for everyone waiting for a final trial, Pauls disagrees. We go straight up:
But we are confident, and have a good will to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
When we accept Christ as our savior, to God, we look like Christ. All He sees is the righteousness of His Son.
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