what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[HUGGY]

OK... let me be the one to turn this into a clusterfuck so KG can play her trump card.

You can't go to heaven if you believe in or have ever participated in an abortion.



Somebody had to do it.

 

[hobelim]

We will settle for noting and then derisively laughing at the complete unimportance of your existence, noman.

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

.

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

So you are trying to tell people, some who are rational, that God became mortal to suffer and die for us?

And you wonder why some people ridicule such a belief?

really?

 

[Chuckt]

So you are trying to tell people, some who are rational, that God became mortal to suffer and die for us?

And you wonder why some people ridicule such a belief?

really?

Why would they ridicule? I've always been taught to call other people "different" then "weird" because that is tolerance and ridicule is not.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If I worked on an assumption that not all people would turn to God to be saved then having a program of foolishness would cut down on people going to heaven because #1, they wouldn't change and #2, people that have hatred with God would find foolishness and not faith as a reason to disqualify themselves.

Even without using all of His intelligence, He can still laugh and accomplish His will using very little intellectual power and people who went to hell were beaten by foolishness.

 

[Derideo_Te]

OK... let me be the one to turn this into a clusterfuck so KG can play her trump card.

You can't go to heaven if you believe in or have ever participated in an abortion.



Somebody had to do it.

That rule would exclude God himself from entering heaven since he ordered abortions to be performed by the Israelites on their enemies.

 

[longknife]

I tend to look at it in the Star Trek mode.

Perhaps we exist in stages - pre-birth, life in a corporeal body - death in some form of advanced state. What level we reach in the after-life depends upon what we've done with our corporeal body and mind.

And, just perhaps, advanced beings of some type are administering the rules of where we go afterwards. Known as "gods"?

 

[hobelim]

So you are trying to tell people, some who are rational, that God became mortal to suffer and die for us?

And you wonder why some people ridicule such a belief?

really?

Why would they ridicule? I've always been taught to call other people "different" then "weird" because that is tolerance and ridicule is not.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If I worked on an assumption that not all people would turn to God to be saved then having a program of foolishness would cut down on people going to heaven because #1, they wouldn't change and #2, people that have hatred with God would find foolishness and not faith as a reason to disqualify themselves.

Even without using all of His intelligence, He can still laugh and accomplish His will using very little intellectual power and people who went to hell were beaten by foolishness.

I do appreciate the point you have made but in the case of religious beliefs such as the belief that God became a mortal man to suffer and die because he loved everybody so much invites ridicule when they also claim that acceptance of such an irrational belief is the basis for their false claim to moral authority on every other subject from what you can eat to who you have sex with.

If they can't get something as important as the nature of God and the way to salvation and eternal life right how is it even possible that they would be right about any less important subject?

Don't you find such preposterous claims even the least bit funny?

 

[Chuckt]

So you are trying to tell people, some who are rational, that God became mortal to suffer and die for us?

And you wonder why some people ridicule such a belief?

really?

Why would they ridicule? I've always been taught to call other people "different" then "weird" because that is tolerance and ridicule is not.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If I worked on an assumption that not all people would turn to God to be saved then having a program of foolishness would cut down on people going to heaven because #1, they wouldn't change and #2, people that have hatred with God would find foolishness and not faith as a reason to disqualify themselves.

Even without using all of His intelligence, He can still laugh and accomplish His will using very little intellectual power and people who went to hell were beaten by foolishness.

I do appreciate the point you have made but in the case of religious beliefs such as the belief that God became a mortal man to suffer and die because he loved everybody so much invites ridicule when they also claim that acceptance of such an irrational belief is the basis for their false claim to moral authority on every other subject from what you can eat to who you have sex with.

If they can't get something as important as the nature of God and the way to salvation and eternal life right how is it even possible that they would be right about any less important subject?

Don't you find such preposterous claims even the least bit funny?

I've asked other Christians essentially if God is so powerful then why do so many people get His word wrong. My understanding is based on grounded assumptions. He could speak so clearly that it would be obvious that God existed and everyone would go to heaven based on belief. Why did God take away the tree of life after Adam and Eve sinned? Because if they ate from the tree of life, they would live forever in this fallen state and that isn't what God wants for us. The reason He speaks in parables is so that if you aren't interested, you won't see and be converted. Why save someone from hell so they can stay in a fallen state? That is pretty much the question and the answer.

After being used and stolen from by the world, after being persecuted and physically hurt from the world, after being abused and having seen all kinds of evil in this world, I appreciate the Christian users here because they're my only defense other than the Lord. We had a family friend who moved and needed a new bed. The Church bought it for her.
If we didn't have Christians defending the Constitution, someone would be forcing me to do something. I see things as the opposite. This useless thing you call Church and their belief is actually my hospital from abuse and my friends who will stick up for me.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[hobelim]

Why would they ridicule? I've always been taught to call other people "different" then "weird" because that is tolerance and ridicule is not.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

If I worked on an assumption that not all people would turn to God to be saved then having a program of foolishness would cut down on people going to heaven because #1, they wouldn't change and #2, people that have hatred with God would find foolishness and not faith as a reason to disqualify themselves.

Even without using all of His intelligence, He can still laugh and accomplish His will using very little intellectual power and people who went to hell were beaten by foolishness.

I do appreciate the point you have made but in the case of religious beliefs such as the belief that God became a mortal man to suffer and die because he loved everybody so much invites ridicule when they also claim that acceptance of such an irrational belief is the basis for their false claim to moral authority on every other subject from what you can eat to who you have sex with.

If they can't get something as important as the nature of God and the way to salvation and eternal life right how is it even possible that they would be right about any less important subject?

Don't you find such preposterous claims even the least bit funny?

I've asked other Christians essentially if God is so powerful then why do so many people get His word wrong. My understanding is based on grounded assumptions. He could speak so clearly that it would be obvious that God existed and everyone would go to heaven based on belief. Why did God take away the tree of life after Adam and Eve sinned? Because if they ate from the tree of life, they would live forever in this fallen state and that isn't what God wants for us. The reason He speaks in parables is so that if you aren't interested, you won't see and be converted. Why save someone from hell so they can stay in a fallen state? That is pretty much the question and the answer.

After being used and stolen from by the world, after being persecuted and physically hurt from the world, after being abused and having seen all kinds of evil in this world, I appreciate the Christian users here because they're my only defense other than the Lord. We had a family friend who moved and needed a new bed. The Church bought it for her.
If we didn't have Christians defending the Constitution, someone would be forcing me to do something. I see things as the opposite. This useless thing you call Church and their belief is actually my hospital from abuse and my friends who will stick up for me.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Aren't you they same guy who denied that there are hidden subjects in scripture that needed to be deciphered to be understood when I pointed out the allegorical nature of the creation stories?

Make up your mind.

How is any rational person ever going to be convinced to accept irrational beliefs that cannot be explained or understood by such a distinguished believer as yourself when such beliefs have obviously screwed up your ability to perceive the absurdity of denying something that you later preach and confirm?

Maybe if youse guys weren't so obsessed about everyone else going to hell you might notice that you are already in it.

 

[numan]

We will settle for noting and then derisively laughing at the complete unimportance of your existence, noman.

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

"Magic words of 'Poof, poof, piffle' "

Primitive, barbaric Bronze Age blood-sacrifice !!

How you desecrate the powers of intelligent thought evolution has given you!

The mumbo-jumbo of savage anthropoids that, somehow, killing and burning animals will feed and placate imaginary powers, and make them more well-disposed to you!

For shame!!
.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I worry about real estate values in heaven. After all, there are probably hundreds of billions of people there. I suspect that all the beach front properties are already taken. What if the only places left are the equivilent of North Dakota?

 

[BreezeWood]

only who accomplish Purity are candidates for Heaven - everyone else is only kidding themselves - and have only the Everlasting as a hopeful alternative .... all but sinners.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The parable of the two debtors in Luke 7:40 - 50 tells the story of a certain creditor which had two debtors. The one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him the most, Jesus asked.

Simon answered and said, I suppose he, to whom he forgave the most. And Jesus replied to him, Thou hast rightly judged.

And he turned to the woman and said unto Simon, See this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet - but she has washed my feet with her tears and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

Thou gavest me no kiss but this woman hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou did not anoint but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherfore I say unto thee, her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much.

But to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. and they that sat at meat with him began to say to themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

And he ( Jesus ) said to the woman, Thy faith has saved thee; go in peace.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I worry about real estate values in heaven. After all, there are probably hundreds of billions of people there. I suspect that all the beach front properties are already taken. What if the only places left are the equivilent of North Dakota?

If you prefer to go where it is warmer than ND there is always hell instead. Apparently there are plenty of lakeside properties with great views.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

We will settle for noting and then derisively laughing at the complete unimportance of your existence, noman.

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

.

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

I have to disagree.

noman is utterly worthless. Even God laughs at him. Derisively.

And despite what he claims, the poor mutant actually does think he's witty and intelligent.

 

[Avatar4321]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

The BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

There are countless people without a birth certificate who have lived on the earth. I highly doubt that's a prerequisite

 

[IlarMeilyr]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

The BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

There are countless people without a birth certificate who have lived on the earth. I highly doubt that's a prerequisite

Right.

I musta meant the DEATH certificate.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

.

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

There's not even a connection between someone being crucified and others receiving immortality. Jesus was a badass and they crucified him, that's all.

It's not the crucifixion leads to immortality. It's the resurrection. Christ was put to death in the most heinous way imaginable and yet despite that, death could not contain Him. He rose from the dead. And because He rose from the dead, all of us will as well. Just like because of one man we all die, because of one man we all rise to Immortality.

The question is do we rise in the resurrection of the Just or the unjust?

 

[Avatar4321]

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

.

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

So you are trying to tell people, some who are rational, that God became mortal to suffer and die for us?

And you wonder why some people ridicule such a belief?

really?

No. I don't wonder why some people ridicule such a belief. I completely understand why. That doesn't change the fact that it's true. Nor does it change the fact that those who will humble themselves and experiment on the Word can know for themselves that it's true.

The only reason I know that Jesus Christ lives and atoned for my sins is because I've experienced the Atonement. The Lord revealed this truth to me. And I know I am nothing special. If the Lord will reveal it to me, He will reveal it to anyone who seeks to know for themselves.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

.

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

I have to disagree.

noman is utterly worthless. Even God laughs at him. Derisively.

And despite what he claims, the poor mutant actually does think he's witty and intelligent.

I don't believe in a God who laughs derisively at His Children. Our Father in Heaven loves His Children and gives us every chance He can for us to return to Him. He will openly weep when His children fail to live up to what they can be.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why not? I laugh (or, at least, chuckle) at the complete unimportance of my existence, too.

You could do with a bit of lightening up, though, Ilar. · ·

But your existence isn't unimportant. You mattered so much that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became mortal to suffer and died for you. You are so important that He bled at every pore for you.

He suffered more than any human being ever will so you might recieve Immortality and Eternal Life. Your soul is Great in His sight.

"Magic words of 'Poof, poof, piffle' "

Primitive, barbaric Bronze Age blood-sacrifice !!

How you desecrate the powers of intelligent thought evolution has given you!

The mumbo-jumbo of savage anthropoids that, somehow, killing and burning animals will feed and placate imaginary powers, and make them more well-disposed to you!

For shame!!
.

There is nothing magical about Redemption or Sacrifice. We aren't magically born again. It comes through the grace and power of God. One day you will understand. I have no doubt about that. And when that day comes, I hope it will be one where you are welcomed with open arms to immense joy rather than one where you fall on your knees in guilt and the weight of your sins.