Were the four hundred thousand Messianic Jews of the Bar Kochba Revolt grandparents to Palestinians?

[DennisPTate]

Messianic Jewish author Sid Roth gives the statistic of 400,000 for the number of Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

If Sid Roth's statistic is correct could the Palestinians of this last century be largely descended from the first century followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were allowed to stay in Roman Judaea and grow olive oil and grain and wine and pay taxes to Rome?

[Sid Roth] :
The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called Nazarenes (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law (Acts 21:20).

The Nazarenes acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochbas armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish."

[Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65]

The Incomplete Church (Book) by Sid Roth, Code: 1093

Christianity today is very different from the original. To experience the original—the miracles, healings, power, and intimacy with God—we have to examine our Jewish roots. For nearly 2,000 years, there has been a separation between Judaism and Christianity resulting in a lack of miracle power...

www.sidroth.org

This idea would certainly fit with the scholarship of Mr. Tsvi Misinai who has began The Engagement Movement.

"Tsvi Misinai claims that the majority of the Palestinian peopleincluding those with Israeli citizenship or residency, known variously as Arab citizens of Israel, Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, including the Bedouin Arabs of Israelare descendants of the ancient Hebrews, as most of the world's Jewish ethnic divisions are.[6] Furthermore, he claims that at least half of them are quietly aware of this fact.[7]

According to Misinai, unlike the ancestors of the modern day Jews who were city dwellers to a large extent, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural dwellers, and were allowed to remain in the land of Israel to work the land and supply Rome with grain and olive oil."

Misinai states the topic of Hebrew origin was spoken of openly by Palestinians until relatively recent history, much as the Egyptians or Lebanese are aware of their origin in the ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians respectively, even if the topic arouses the passions of those wishing to stress or de-emphasise it."

Tsvi Misinai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Messianic Jewish author Sid Roth gives the statistic of 400,000 for the number of Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

If Sid Roth's statistic is correct could the Palestinians of this last century be largely descended from the first century followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were allowed to stay in Roman Judaea and grow olive oil and grain and wine and pay taxes to Rome?





This idea would certainly fit with the scholarship of Mr. Tsvi Misinai who has began The Engagement Movement.

The Holy Land Was Hollow Until the Jews Returned

The Paleonasties were desert bandits who wandered into an empty and infertile land for a pit stop.

 

[DennisPTate]

The Holy Land Was Hollow Until the Jews Returned

The Paleonasties were desert bandits who wandered into an empty and infertile land for a pit stop.

Being ruled over by highly unethical individuals or gruops, will tend to have that effect on a group of people. A powerful case can be presented that the Mufti of Jerusalem led the Palestinians into supporting Germany during WWII.

As of the 1970's the leadership of the Palestinian people had found themselves somebody almost as bad as Adolf Hitler to assist them in their objectives of finishing what Adolf Hitler had started.

I am sure you know all about how the less than wise leadership of the Ottoman Empire decided to link taxation rates on areas of land, to the number of trees there, so the people in that area soon cut down every tree.

Unconverted Russia and its influence on the Mideast

Osama bin Laden's deputy issued a worldwide call today for Muslims to rise up in holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza, until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq". Ayman al-Zawahiri warned that al-Qaida would not stand "idly by, humiliated", as Israeli "shells burn our...

www.tldm.org

In a August 24, 2006 article entitled, "Russian Footprints", Ion Mihai Pacepa writes:

By the end of the 1960s, the KGB was deeply involved in mass terrorism against Jews, carried out by various Palestinian client organizations. Here are some terrorist actions for which the KGB took credit while I was still in Romania: November 1969, armed attack on the El Al office in Athens, leaving 1 dead and 14 wounded; May 30, 1972, Ben Gurion Airport attack, leaving 22 dead and 76 wounded; December 1974, Tel Aviv movie theater bomb, leaving 2 dead and 66 wounded; March 1975, attack on a Tel Aviv hotel, leaving 25 dead and 6 wounded; May 1975, Jerusalem bomb, leaving 1 dead and 3 wounded; July 4, 1975, bomb in Zion Square, Jerusalem, leaving 15 dead and 62 wounded; April 1978, Brussels airport attack, leaving 12 wounded; May 1978, attack on an El Al plane in Paris, leaving 12 wounded. ... In 1972, the Kremlin decided to turn the whole Islamic world against Israel and the U.S. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov told me, a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on America than could a few millions. We needed to instill a Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon of the emotions into a terrorist bloodbath against Israel and its main supporter, the United States. No one within the American/Zionist sphere of influence should any longer feel safe.

• 1970 - Yasser Arafat, the father of modern terrorism:
  
  
  In 1970 the Kremlin became interested in an obscure Arab construction engineer and collector of racecars, named Rahman al-Qudwa. Evidence shows, contrary to later claims, that this "construction engineer" was an Egyptian, born in Cairo during the summer of 1929. Rahman graduated from the University of Cairo and served as an officer in the Egyptian Army during the 1956 Suez campaign. Later he set up a business in Kuwait and made a fortune. He then entered politics, founding a hopelessly small terrorist organization.... According to the former head of Romanian intelligence, Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, one of the highest ranking communist defectors of all time, Rahman al-Qudwa became an important political ally of the communist bloc following the death of Egypt's president, Gamal Abdul Nasser, in 1970. Gen. Pacepa's account of Rahman's intimate relations with the communist bloc is related in a book entitled "Red Horizons."... Rahman al-Qudwa is better known as Yasser Arafat, the chairman of the PLO since 1968 and the president of the Palestinian Authority -- which is now at war with Israel. According to Gen. Pacepa's account, communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu ordered his people to bring Arafat over to Romania. In late 1970 the chief of Romanian intelligence in Egypt, Gen. Constantine Munteanu, arrived in Bucharest with Arafat in tow. Munteanu had gathered an extensive file on Arafat, which characterized the PLO leader as "so much cleverness, blood, and filth all together in one man." Pacepa says that this was Munteanu's "standard definition of Arafat."
  Given Gen. Munteanu's extensive file, Arafat could not exactly refuse the communist's "friendly" overtures. There is little question that Arafat is fanatically devoted to destroying Israel, and would sell his soul to the devil to gain his devilish ends. Therefore, a compact between Arafat and the Soviet Union via communist Romania was not something that violated any sacred Islamic rule in Arafat's heart. Arafat is no Moslem. His fanaticism is completely secular. But since he operates within the Islamic world, he must sometimes appear as a would-be Muslim liberator. (“Kremlin puppets and how they work,” J.R. Nyquist, October 19, 2000) (read also Our Lady of the Roses prophecy about one who would come out of Egypt...)
• 1972 - According to Ion Mihai Pacepa, “In 1972, the Kremlin decided to turn the whole Islamic world against Israel and the U.S. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov … [said], a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on America than could a few millions. We needed to instill Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon … against Israel and its main supporter, the United States.”
• 1973 - Soviet statements and preparations for an attack against Israel led the Pentagon to order U.S. nuclear forces to the highest state of peacetime readiness. The Joint Chiefs of Staff ordered the 82nd Airborne Division to prepare to head to the Middle East, and additional U.S. naval forces -- including American aircraft carriers -- moved into the Mediterranean, all out of a real and rising concern that the Soviets were about to make an unprecedented military move against Israel.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Being ruled over by highly unethical individuals or gruops, will tend to have that effect on a group of people. A powerful case can be presented that the Mufti of Jerusalem led the Palestinians into supporting Germany during WWII.

As of the 1970's the leadership of the Palestinian people had found themselves somebody almost as bad as Adolf Hitler to assist them in their objectives of finishing what Adolf Hitler had started.

I am sure you know all about how the less than wise leadership of the Ottoman Empire decided to link taxation rates on areas of land, to the number of trees there, so the people in that area soon cut down every tree.

Soviet policy backfired when the jihadis threw them out of Afghanistan

 

[DennisPTate]

Soviet policy backfired when the jihadis threw them out of Afghanistan

Very true, but there is a prediction that a massive spiritual awakening is about to happen in Russia that will transform the Middle East, [as well as Afghanistan].

Near death experiencer Bob Jones predicted that there would be a "Russian Red Army" of some of the most courageous Messianic Gentile and Messianic Jewish evangelists who have ever walked the earth. The Russian Red Army will all be much like the Apostle Paul, they will fearlessly honour Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who is Messiah The Passover Lamb.

Perhaps The Russian Red Army will grab hold of the full implications of this lecture:




Here is a summary of the prophecy about The Russian Red Army that was given by near death experiencer Bob Jones. His wife Bonnie is his greatest representative at this time.

Bonnie Jones: Bob's 1980s Prophecy About Russia Is About to be Fulfilled - Charisma Magazine Online

The Lord is going to use a Red Army to advance His kingdom, she said.

mycharisma.com

Bonnie Jones, widow of the late Bob Jones, recently shared a vision she had for many nations with The Elijah List. But much of the word she shares from the Lord is focused on Russia—including a recap of a vision her husband once shared in the 1980s.


She wrote:


I saw a large solid, blood-red heart and to its immediate right, in large bold print, was written “POWER.” I knew this was Bob Jones’ Russian Red Army prophecy from the 1980s. Below is a portion of the transcript from that prophecy. The full prophecy can be found in the 2015 Shepherd’s Rod.

In the early 80s, God said He was going to change the Soviet Union. The greatest awakening of all time was going to be in the Soviet Union. Four nations would begin to have open doors into Russia, and the fifth nation would be Sweden. Also Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Finland. He also said that like Israel was in captivity for 70 years, Russia would be in captivity for 70 years also.

In the late 80s, He began to speak to me about releasing the Russian Jews and Christians and providing an open door for them. I saw 50,000 Christians being released, and I saw the wall coming down.






In 1991, the Lord began to speak really powerfully about Russia again. Kansas City took up an offering of $1.4 million and gave it to Terry Law to finance the work in Russia.


There was a Red Army angel general; he was the angel over Russia. He was the captain of the hosts in Russia. The Lord was standing with him, and he was totally red like blood. He had the power of the blood; he was like blood and fire. It was the blood of Christ, all the power of the blood. The Lord didn’t speak to me, He just nodded, and what the angel said to say, it was right. He was one very powerful angel; he was an archangel over Russia. He brought me a white piece of paper, and on the paper was written, “Would you be interested in joining the Russian Army of God?” I said, “No, because the door to Russia is going to close.” The angel said, “You’re a liar!” And the Lord nodded to agree.














I said that Russia was going to be equipped and that it would attack the South. The angel said, “That’s right, but did you ever see what the army was?” I said that it was the Red Army. He said that was right, but he said to look, and I looked, and behind them was a red cross. They are going to carry the cross into the cell, into the Muslim nations and into Europe. He said that some of the greatest evangelists in the world will come out of Russia. In the last days, it will not be the door to Russia that will close, it will be the door to the USA, and Russia will send evangelists to the United States.
[Bonnie Jones]

 

[TNHarley]

Its crazy how there are any messianic jews, IMO. The prophecies were not fulfilled. it makes no sense.

 

[DennisPTate]

Its crazy how there are any messianic jews, IMO. The prophecies were not fulfilled. it makes no sense.

Being both Jewish as well as a believer in Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as having fulfilled the role of Moshiach the Passover Lamb is a very difficult life. The Rabbinic Jewish family of a Messianic Jew will likely ostracize them, [and that is not a fun experience].

From what I have seen and observed in my sixty six years, [fifty or so years involved in the Messianic Gentile and Messianic Jewish movement], is that an influential segment of Messianic Jews have such a powerful experience that their testimonies tend to win over more and more and more and more disciples to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as having fulfilled the role of Messiah the Passover Lamb, every week!

 

[TNHarley]

Jesus as having fulfilled the role of Messiah

But he didnt. The messianic age never came to be. And he has been dead for 2k years.

 

[DennisPTate]

But he didnt. The messianic age never came to be. And he has been dead for 2k years.

I personally do believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is indeed Moshiach ben David and I believe that His appearing to his disciples and sending them back into this earth with a message is powerful evidence that Jesus has been given total power and authority over death itself.

Robert Marshall who was brain dead for so long that he should not be able to even speak is evidence that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus has attained astonishing authority over sickness and death in His resurrected body and mind.

I am guessing that you yourself are forced by your understanding of the role of the Jewish Messiah to assert that near death experiencer Robert Marshall must either be lying, or was somehow deceived?

Zone1 Thread 'Is the Robert Marshall near death experience True, or False?'

Nov 16, 2025

I believe that there is really no middle ground for the Robert and Carol Marshall near death experience case?

Obviously it is either True, or False?

I have listened to every major interview that Mr. Robert Marshall has done since his 2024 near death experience and I am off the scale impressed.

He has quoted the doctors and the nurses who worked on his astonishing case and they admit that what happened for him, was NOT their doing?

The doctors and the nurses are in shock over what happened with Mrs. Carol Marshall's husband. They are a medical team in Fort Worth Texas and they are in a...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 42
• Forum: Clean Debate Zone

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[DennisPTate]

But he didnt. The messianic age never came to be. And he has been dead for 2k years.

I should dig up Isaiah 53 and Psalms 16 from the Jewish Bible for you.

Some near death experiencers were shown about Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus spending three days in Hell, [the heart of the earth as translated by the KJV], and those near death experiencers were shown that he repeated and repeated Psalms sixteen as a glimmer of light in the extreme darkness that he was in.

If we are soon due for an allegorical "Yom Kippur event" that could be similar to the events of the Passover of two millennia ago, then the understanding of the full truth of what Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus accomplished can alter what needs to be done at this time to fulfill the hidden meaning in Yom Kippur. [Note, why is the name "Azazel" in Leviticus 16 in the original Hebrew? Is this the same Azazel of the Book of Enoch fame]?

Oh, a pretty powerful case can be presented that Rabbi Akiva was biased and the 6000 years from Adam and Eve could perhaps have been up around 1996?

 

[DennisPTate]

Soviet policy backfired when the jihadis threw them out of Afghanistan

Exactly... and now that Iran is being weakened, another major blow has been dealt to the Russia policy against the nation of Israel and against the USA.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

If Sid Roth's statistic is correct could the Palestinians of this last century be largely descended from the first century followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were allowed to stay in Roman Judaea and grow olive oil and grain and wine and pay taxes to Rome?

The vast majority were merely migrant farm workers who drifted in when the British investors funded the citrus fruit industry and other projects around the turn of the 20th Century. There were two or three Aliyahs of Russian Jews before that, invited in by the Ottomans to repopulate the region and build a tax base there. The few indigenous Arabs considered themselves Syrian or Egyptians.