We're Bad, It's a Given, NOW What About the UN?

[Annie]

http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/2004/05/some_genocides_.html

Sudan won an uncontested election Tuesday to the United Nations (news - web sites)' main human rights watchdog, prompting the United States to walk out because of alleged ethnic cleansing in the country's Darfur region.
Millions of non-Muslim black Africans “ethnically cleansed” by the Muslim Sudanese in power in that land and this is their earthly reward?
Sudan's envoy immediately shot back that the U.S. delegation was "shedding crocodile tears," and he accused the United States of turning a blind eye as Iraqi prisoners were mistreated and civilians were harmed in battle.
Welcome to the world of moral equivalence, in which, abuse of a few prisoners by a few members of a vast military and the genocide of millions amount to the same thing.
Sudan's deputy U.N. ambassador, Omar Bashir Mohamed Manis, said the United States had no right to accuse anyone of human rights violations, after allegations of abuses in Iraq (news - web sites) including mistreatment of Iraqis held in U.S.-run prisons
Images of the Iraqi prisoners "are fresh in the minds of all justice-loving people around the world," he said.

Let’s see you punish the perpetrators of your crimes the way we have punished and will punish the perpetrators of ours and then we’ll compare notes, you stinking, mealy-mouthed, mass-murdering hypocrite!

Let one group of the protected slaughter the other en masse and it’s “ho hum” from the arbiters of international justice. But let a few members of the US military commit criminal acts that don’t result in death and do result in punishment for the perpetrators and it’s the flocking crime of the century.

Perhaps the UN doesn't expect much from "savages." Maybe it thinks the world would be a better place with fewer "savages" in it. Perhaps it's rewarding other "savages" for doing its dirty work. Just speculating.

 

[insein]

The US is more and more becoming the standard of civilized society. We are the example for all the poor filthy children of the world including our ill-mannered older siblings, the EU. We are the middle child that is held to the highest standard and given the shortest leash.

I think the US should found a new Organization and kick the UN out of US soil. They keep bad-mouthing us and making assinine appointees like this. yet idiot liberal Democrats want us to go to them to protect our sovereignty? When will they Dems wake up form this pipe dream of a global Government and start acting like Americans.

 

[arnoldlayne]

The thing that struck me about the whole torture thing is the reaction of American and British people to it!!
I mean, both the U.S and U.K armies are volunteer armies rather than a conscripted public army. So you might think who would volunteer for armies of countries that are always at war?
True, its not fair to say everyone who's joined up are wanting to experience violence, that is naive, ignorant and is bullshit...
BUT there are 'some' who join up with the express purpose of killing/maming/torturing..and you know what, its these people who the Military machine rely on, precisely because it is a volunteer army.

Anyone who has served in Germany in the 1970s and 1980s will tell you of the rot that set in the army after Vietnam and which spread through the Forces during the Cold War. Institutionalized bullying and the continual cover ups of murders and tortures within the the Ranks started to become more frequent. Soldiers, bored stupid by no action, entertained themselves in a way that you might expect of people trained to fight the enemy rather than boredom.

The culture of covering up nasty and foul behavior grew as Generals chose to look away, worried it might put people off joining up for Uncle Sam.
So now, it is this Army, with this worrying culture of bullying and sadism that is out there. representing you..an army out there amongst a desperate people, who have had those 'sorts' of people as their government for over 30 yrs. I wonder how they feel about it all?

Lets hope this whole adventure doesn't end up with us as the bad guys?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by arnoldlayne
The thing that struck me about the whole torture thing is the reaction of American and British people to it!!
I mean, both the U.S and U.K armies are volunteer armies rather than a conscripted public army. So you might think who would volunteer for armies of countries that are always at war?
True, its not fair to say everyone who's joined up are wanting to experience violence, that is naive, ignorant and is bullshit...
BUT there are 'some' who join up with the express purpose of killing/maming/torturing..and you know what, its these people who the Military machine rely on, precisely because it is a volunteer army.

Anyone who has served in Germany in the 1970s and 1980s will tell you of the rot that set in the army after Vietnam and which spread through the Forces during the Cold War. Institutionalized bullying and the continual cover ups of murders and tortures within the the Ranks started to become more frequent. Soldiers, bored stupid by no action, entertained themselves in a way that you might expect of people trained to fight the enemy rather than boredom.

The culture of covering up nasty and foul behavior grew as Generals chose to look away, worried it might put people off joining up for Uncle Sam.
So now, it is this Army, with this worrying culture of bullying and sadism that is out there. representing you..an army out there amongst a desperate people, who have had those 'sorts' of people as their government for over 30 yrs. I wonder how they feel about it all?

Lets hope this whole adventure doesn't end up with us as the bad guys?

Umm you posted this in another thread. Am i to assume your thrid post is the exact same thing in another thread? Who let the assholes in tonight?

 

[arnoldlayne]

Yeah, I am an asshole (and proud!)...posted it twice..new to the forum.
I think ‘insein’ is dead right in saying that:
The US is more and more becoming the standard of civilized society...We are the middle child that is held to the highest standard and given the shortest leash. "

But I dunno about:
"I think the US should found a new Organization and kick the UN out of US soil. "
Its like saying 'well we're alright , so fuck you world!'
I sorta think that sounds a bit childish.

 

[Annie]

For what it's worth. I think the US is an exception from the word go. We never bought into the idea of primogenture, nor have we bought into the idea of sex gendered estates. We believe that either male or female, of whatever race are capable of making rationale decisions for their own or their progenies futures. Religion, just like race, is a choice, which differentiates us from the extremist Islamic viewpoint.

 

[Merlin1047]

I am totally in favor of kicking the UN out of the country and ending our membership therein.

Having said that, I'd like to offer the opinion that the UN is not the root of our problem. It's the State Department bureaucrats who are our real enemies and it is our own fault for continuing to ignore the problem. We need to demand that our elected leaders clean up that nest of leeches and one-worlders.

Basically, I believe that we get disrespectful treatment from the UN for no other reason than they know we are willing to tolerate it.

 

[arnoldlayne]

"For what it's worth. I think the US is an exception from the word go. We never bought into the idea of primogenture, nor have we bought into the idea of sex gendered estates. We believe that either male or female, of whatever race are capable of making rationale decisions for their own or their progenies futures. Religion, just like race, is a choice, which differentiates us from the extremist Islamic viewpoint."bold

I don't think anyone...I mean most of the world..disputes that America is founded on enlightenment principles..its a new country and came about during a time with new thoughts about equality came about etc..
But noone in the world outside, really is making any comparisons with the U.S and religious lunitics...more the people of the Earth are becoming aware that this is a country seems to be basing its foriegn policy on corporate needs.
Why remove one dictator of an oil rich country (2nd most oil rich!!) and leave another tyrant alone in a resource poor nation?
Why not let the U.N run Iraq so it can monitor the Iraqi Oil industry and dispell any nasty rumours that Anglo/American firms intends to drink the lot?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by arnoldlayne
"For what it's worth. I think the US is an exception from the word go. We never bought into the idea of primogenture, nor have we bought into the idea of sex gendered estates. We believe that either male or female, of whatever race are capable of making rationale decisions for their own or their progenies futures. Religion, just like race, is a choice, which differentiates us from the extremist Islamic viewpoint."bold

I don't think anyone...I mean most of the world..disputes that America is founded on enlightenment principles..its a new country and came about during a time with new thoughts about equality came about etc..
But noone in the world outside, really is making any comparisons with the U.S and religious lunitics...more the people of the Earth are becoming aware that this is a country seems to be basing its foriegn policy on corporate needs.
Why remove one dictator of an oil rich country (2nd most oil rich!!) and leave another tyrant alone in a resource poor nation?
Why not let the U.N run Iraq so it can monitor the Iraqi Oil industry and dispell any nasty rumours that Anglo/American firms intends to drink the lot?

Because the UN has shown they arent trustworthy on matters dealing with Oil.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/oil_for_food_ripoff_040420-1.html

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by arnoldlayne
Why remove one dictator of an oil rich country (2nd most oil rich!!) and leave another tyrant alone in a resource poor nation?

Quite simply because we can't do everything for everyone, it was hard enough getting people behind upholding 17 UN resolutions against the one state we did attack, and the American people wouldn't support it.

Why not let the U.N run Iraq so it can monitor the Iraqi Oil industry and dispell any nasty rumours that Anglo/American firms intends to drink the lot?

The UN does a reasonable job distributing food and medical aid but are not useful for much else. Asking the UN to take care of Iraq would roughly amount to abandoning that country to every lawless element in it.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

I don't think anyone...I mean most of the world..disputes that America is founded on enlightenment principles..its a new country and came about during a time with new thoughts about equality came about etc..
But noone in the world outside, really is making any comparisons with the U.S and religious lunitics...more the people of the Earth are becoming aware that this is a country seems to be basing its foriegn policy on corporate needs.
Why remove one dictator of an oil rich country (2nd most oil rich!!) and leave another tyrant alone in a resource poor nation?

Ok so we decide to take out the next dictator. Everybody's already bitching that we took out Saddam. You can't have it both ways....

Why not let the U.N run Iraq so it can monitor the Iraqi Oil industry and dispell any nasty rumours that Anglo/American firms intends to drink the lot?

Do some research on the Oil for Food scandal. Then we 'll talk about the UN running something....

 

[arnoldlayne]

Yeah perhaps it right that U.N can't be trusted over oil after those back handers!!! Best of leaving that sort thing to Oil barrons...at least then folks will say 'that business for yer!"

 

[insein]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Ok so we decide to take out the next dictator. Everybody's already bitching that we took out Saddam. You can't have it both ways....





Do some research on the Oil for Food scandal. Then we 'll talk about the UN running something....

Ahem...

originally posted by Insein
Because the UN has shown they arent trustworthy on matters dealing with Oil.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/...f_040420-1.html

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by insein
Ahem...

Sorry Govnah!

 

[insein]

Originally posted by arnoldlayne
Yeah perhaps it right that U.N can't be trusted over oil after those back handers!!! Best of leaving that sort thing to Oil barrons...at least then folks will say 'that business for yer!"

guh? Please translate.

 

[Annie]

Well

It's the State Department bureaucrats who are our real enemies and it is our own fault for continuing to ignore the problem. We need to demand that our elected leaders clean up that nest of leeches and one-worlders.

It's not the 'ELECTED' leaders or those that 'would be elected', but rather those for the UN and The EU that wish they were in control.

 

[Merlin1047]

I think I have posted a sufficient number of items to indicate that I am no supporter of the UN.

But once again, we have been guilty of the same stupidity and selective outrage as that in which the UN is currently wallowing.

Does anyone remember the furor spurred by Hollywood diletantes when the South African government was depriving blacks of their civil rights? There were some few instances of physical abuse, but generally speaking, the oppresion the South African government was engaging in involved the deprivation of abstract rights such as property ownership, voting etc.

While the ire of Hollywood elitists and the leftist media descended on the South Africans, Idi Amin was left virtually unchallenged while he murdered hundreds of thousands of his countrymen.

So the perspective of the left appears to be that it is far worse for a white government to deprive a black populace of civil liberties than it is for a black government to deprive a black populace of their lives.

Is it just me, or does this make no sense at all? While we work on kicking the UN the hell out of this country, let's not forget we have a bit of work to do on the home front.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
I think I have posted a sufficient number of items to indicate that I am no supporter of the UN.

But once again, we have been guilty of the same stupidity and selective outrage as that in which the UN is currently wallowing.

Does anyone remember the furor spurred by Hollywood diletantes when the South African government was depriving blacks of their civil rights? There were some few instances of physical abuse, but generally speaking, the oppresion the South African government was engaging in involved the deprivation of abstract rights such as property ownership, voting etc.

While the ire of Hollywood elitists and the leftist media descended on the South Africans, Idi Amin was left virtually unchallenged while he murdered hundreds of thousands of his countrymen.

So the perspective of the left appears to be that it is far worse for a white government to deprive a black populace of civil liberties than it is for a black government to deprive a black populace of their lives.

Is it just me, or does this make no sense at all? While we work on kicking the UN the hell out of this country, let's not forget we have a bit of work to do on the home front.

I wholeheartedly agree. The left in this nation needs a swift kick to the head to bring them into reality.

 

[Merlin1047]

"It's not the 'ELECTED' leaders or those that 'would be elected', but rather those for the UN and The EU that wish they were in control."

Kathianne, you lost me there. Not sure what point you were making. Maybe I'm just not tuned in to the proper frequency. The "nest of leeches and one-worlders" to which I was referring was the state department.

 

[arnoldlayne]

I just can't believe want some people are saying about The United Nations!!
What happened to the world when Japan and Germany left the Leage of Nations when they didn't have their way!!!

I,m sorry but some of you guys sound like fascists..I say this because I've never heard such nationalism being expressed like some of ya...yer can't just say that your country should dispense of a world organisation when it doesn't agree with them. It doesn't work like that...if that did happen then we'd find that the world might start to draw worrying conclusions
....and by the way I'm not some leftist red- under- the-bed- liberal...I just think that democracy appllies to the world just as it does to one nation.!!