Was Greg Maddux the most over achieving pitcher in history?

[shockedcanadian]

He never had great stuff, nothing overpowering. He could nail his spot and his mental strategy within the game and meta-game was basically unrivaled as pitchers go.

It's amazing that those Braves teams in the 1990s with all of their success and the most dominant pitching staff for years only won a single WS in the 1990s.

Here are his career stats, for a guy who topped out in the low 90s.

 

[The Duke]

Johnny VanDermeer.

 

[Oddball]

He was called "The Professor" for a reason.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yes. But damn was I lucky that he played for my Braves.

There was a quote I heard him come up with:

"Hitters don't hit home runs, pitchers throw them."

I admire the f**k out of that quote. He was the ultimate finesse pitcher.

 

[MarathonMike]

He never had great stuff, nothing overpowering. He could nail his spot and his mental strategy within the game and meta-game was basically unrivaled as pitchers go.

It's amazing that those Braves teams in the 1990s with all of their success and the most dominant pitching staff for years only won a single WS in the 1990s.

Here are his career stats, for a guy who topped out in the low 90s.

View attachment 1115452
View attachment 1115454

Yep what a staff, Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Notable Achievements​

• 8-time NL All-Star (1988, 1992, 1994-1998 & 2000)
• 4-time NL Cy Young Award Winner (1992-1995)
• 18-time NL Gold Glove Winner (1990-2002 & 2004-2008)
• 4-time NL ERA Leader (1993-1995 & 1998)
• 3-time NL Wins Leader (1992, 1994 & 1995)
• 2-time NL Winning Percentage Leader (1995 & 1997)
• 5-time NL Innings Pitched Leader (1991-1995)
• 3-time NL Complete Games Leader (1993-1995)
• 5-time NL Shutouts Leader (1994, 1995, 1998, 2000 & 2001)
• 15 Wins Seasons: 18 (1988-2004 & 2006)
• 20 Wins Seasons: 2 (1992 & 1993)
• 200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 18 (1988-2001 & 2003-2006)
• 200 Strikeouts Seasons: 1 (1998)
• Won a World Series with the Atlanta Braves in 1995
• Baseball Hall of Fame: Class of 2014

• Records Held​

  • Seasons of 15 or more wins, 18 (tied)
  • Putouts, pitcher, career, 546
  • Double plays, pitcher, career, 98
  • Gold Gloves, career, 18

 

[tyroneweaver]

ya I will say he was over rated

I seen games where if the ball was 6 inches off the plate the umpires would give him a strike
Then when they got in the World Series those umpires wouldn't give that to him. That's why they only won one pennant.

 

[Harry Dresden]

ya I will say he was over rated

I seen games where if the ball was 6 inches off the plate the umpires would give him a strike
Then when they got in the World Series those umpires wouldn't give that to him. That's why they only won one pennant.

yea he had his numbers because of the umps....

 

[Mr. Friscus]

ya I will say he was over rated

I seen games where if the ball was 6 inches off the plate the umpires would give him a strike
Then when they got in the World Series those umpires wouldn't give that to him. That's why they only won one pennant.

I’m not sure it was that simple, although Maddux certainly benefitted from the “human error” element of umps that old timers love to protect

It’s not like the Braves ever had a massive offense.. David Justice, Fred McGriff.. good players, but no Mark McGwire or Bonds

 

[Mr. Friscus]

yea he had his numbers because of the umps....

Sometimes disgused delivery and movement is far more effective than speed.

In tennis, a young USA phenom named Andy Roddick was coming up, regularly launching serves at 130-140 mph, faster than a Pete Sampras and Goran Ivanesvic, who tended to serve 125-132ish. However, Roddick didn’t disguise his serves like Pete and Goran, and the speed didn’t equate to more aces. Roderick still had a ton, but he would max out at 140+ and have the same number or less as Goran who would paint corners at 128-132.

I think Maddux had a nasty delivery Combined with movement that would buckle and freeze hitters. I think umps would see these batters pretty much admitting defeat and think “it’s a little outside but the batter nearly collapsed from being so fooled.. that’s strike 3” LOL

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sometimes disgused delivery and movement is far more effective than speed.

In tennis, a young USA phenom named Andy Roddick was coming up, regularly launching serves at 130-140 mph, faster than a Pete Sampras and Goran Ivanesvic, who tended to serve 125-132ish. However, Roddick didn’t disguise his serves like Pete and Goran, and the speed didn’t equate to more aces. Roderick still had a ton, but he would max out at 140+ and have the same number or less as Goran who would paint corners at 128-132.

I think Maddux had a nasty delivery Combined with movement that would buckle and freeze hitters. I think umps would see these batters pretty much admitting defeat and think “it’s a little outside but the batter nearly collapsed from being so fooled.. that’s strike 3” LOL

no matter what he had he was one of the best pitchers of his era...

 

[stockhome]

And now the pitchers have been blowing out their arms for the last ten years with overpowering stuff.

 

[Harry Dresden]

And now the pitchers have been blowing out their arms for the last ten years with overpowering stuff.

such is the life of a pitcher...

 

[stockhome]

such is the life of a pitcher...

Yes, but more in the last ten years than immediately before that.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yes, but more in the last ten years than immediately before that.

in ruths time pitchers were averaging in the 80's with their pitches today its in the 90's...bigger and stronger pitchers are going to throw harder....thats the way it is...

 

[apolitical]

No.

 

[stockhome]

in ruths time pitchers were averaging in the 80's with their pitches today its in the 90's...bigger and stronger pitchers are going to throw harder....thats the way it is...

Ya, bigger and stronger due to roids, but it does not help them. Smoltz is the foremost critic of owners and managers for promoting arm blowouts. The vid below is good.

I was also watching a game where Smoltz said pitchers are too bulky today. Again, lifting and roids.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ya, bigger and stronger due to roids, but it does not help them. Smoltz is the foremost critic of owners and managers for promoting arm blowouts. The vid below is good.

I was also watching a game where Smoltz said pitchers are too bulky today. Again, lifting and roids.

MLB tested for steroids for 20 years since 2000....not everyone did roids....

 

[stockhome]

MLB tested for steroids for 20 years since 2000....not everyone did roids....

"testing" lol

 

[Harry Dresden]

"testing" lol

yea testing.....