Was Einstein wrong?

[Conservative]

short answer... NO!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vXSSi0BP58]Robot Chicken: I'm Einstein, Bitch - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Conservative]

Very interesting to say the least.

Don't hold your breath about ST becoming a reality though.

Star Trek is already a reality in many ways.

 

[Chris]

I have a feeling that the final theory of everything will be much simpler than people think.

The first element, hydrogen, is nothing but a positive force and a negative force.

It may be as simple as that.

 

[bobcollum]

Speedy neutrino mystery likely solved, relativity safe after all | DVICE

 

[Iridescence]

I love intellectualism... it's like an incurable disease. *he*arts*

 

[saveliberty]

Like I said in post #63. A real scientist wins again! Too bad Kondav. hee hee

 

[konradv]

Like I said in post #63. A real scientist wins again! Too bad Kondav. hee hee

Too bad about what? We basically said the same thing, except that you have a bias against "liberal" science. If that's funny, we've hit on why we're going backwards in the sciences, since such a distinction doesn't exist in the real world.

 

[Ropey]

I have a feeling that the final theory of everything will be much simpler than people think.

The first element, hydrogen, is nothing but a positive force and a negative force.

It may be as simple as that.

E=Mc^2 was pretty elegant.

I tend to agree with you and not only with physics, but also with humanity. Simplicity is a function in and of itself.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Why do I get the impression you are either a California transplant, or a poser.
We Californians don't go around behaving like your snotty ass.

I live here and yes. They do. They really, REALLY do.

But fuck all that human shit. This is so much more important if it's confirmed.

Yep think of the bandwidth on a nutrino based internet!

Lol, *bandwidth*?

That is the funniest remark. Bandwidth on some sort of neutrinao based backbone would be cool, but the implication that the speed of light might not be so absolute is mond-boggling.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Would "scientists" fudge data by a millionth of a second to keep those grants rolling in or to get their names in journals? They did it with global warming.

"Scientists" would, i.e. those that are skeptical about AGW despite the fact that we know the heat-trapping properties of GHGs and that they've been going up for about ~200 years. Scientists, however, do exactly what theses guys did, put out a call for their results to be replicated. They, unlike the denier/skeptic side of the AGW debate, realize that politics doesn't play a part in real science and doesn't depend on polls to determine its veracity.

You m ean like the deniers who refuse DOIA requests or compare such requests to threats like Micheal Mann did?

Oh wait, that would be AGW Warmistas, not the skeptics.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Speedy neutrino mystery likely solved, relativity safe after all | DVICE

cant get to that link.

 

[konradv]

Would "scientists" fudge data by a millionth of a second to keep those grants rolling in or to get their names in journals? They did it with global warming.

"Scientists" would, i.e. those that are skeptical about AGW despite the fact that we know the heat-trapping properties of GHGs and that they've been going up for about ~200 years. Scientists, however, do exactly what theses guys did, put out a call for their results to be replicated. They, unlike the denier/skeptic side of the AGW debate, realize that politics doesn't play a part in real science and doesn't depend on polls to determine its veracity.

You m ean like the deniers who refuse DOIA requests or compare such requests to threats like Micheal Mann did?

Oh wait, that would be AGW Warmistas, not the skeptics.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Go back to sleep. You're as clear as mud!!!

 

[Middleoftheroad]

UPDATE:

Turns out they found out what was wrong after all.
A loose cable between the GPS and the computer was giving an improper time reading.
Sorry Neutrinos don't travel faster then light after all and relativity is safe (once again).
Was Einstein wrong - or was the cable loose? | Reuters

 

[JimBowie1958]

"Scientists" would, i.e. those that are skeptical about AGW despite the fact that we know the heat-trapping properties of GHGs and that they've been going up for about ~200 years. Scientists, however, do exactly what theses guys did, put out a call for their results to be replicated. They, unlike the denier/skeptic side of the AGW debate, realize that politics doesn't play a part in real science and doesn't depend on polls to determine its veracity.

You m ean like the deniers who refuse DOIA requests or compare such requests to threats like Micheal Mann did?

Oh wait, that would be AGW Warmistas, not the skeptics.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Go back to sleep. You're as clear as mud!!!

Oh yeah? So's your mother!

lol, there, that felt good. Like the playground much?

 

[JimBowie1958]

UPDATE:

Turns out they found out what was wrong after all.
A loose cable between the GPS and the computer was giving an improper time reading.
Sorry Neutrinos don't travel faster then light after all and relativity is safe (once again).
Was Einstein wrong - or was the cable loose? | Reuters

Not so fast: Scientists rethink stunning, faster-than-light particle finding | Fox News

A loose connection between a timer and a computer led some of the world’s smartest particle physicists to conclude that certain tiny particles called neutrinos moved faster than the speed of light -- a declaration that shocked the science world and would have called into questions Einstein’s theories.

But rather than invalidating the stunning superspeed finding, the flaw may have led scientists to underestimate it.

Citing sources familiar with the experiment, Science magazine’s website reported Wednesday that the 60-nanoseconds discrepancy that led to the startling speed conclusion came from a bad connection in a fiber optic cable connecting a GPS receiver (used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight) and a computer....

Yet a Thursday morning statement from CERN's OPERA team, the European science group that first reported the faster-than-light finding, noted that the faulty cable could have led to an undercalculation instead.

Neutrinos could move even faster than the speed of light than previously suggested, in other words.

Lol, God is fucking with the science community.

 

[Middleoftheroad]

UPDATE:

Turns out they found out what was wrong after all.
A loose cable between the GPS and the computer was giving an improper time reading.
Sorry Neutrinos don't travel faster then light after all and relativity is safe (once again).
Was Einstein wrong - or was the cable loose? | Reuters

Not so fast: Scientists rethink stunning, faster-than-light particle finding | Fox News

A loose connection between a timer and a computer led some of the world’s smartest particle physicists to conclude that certain tiny particles called neutrinos moved faster than the speed of light -- a declaration that shocked the science world and would have called into questions Einstein’s theories.

But rather than invalidating the stunning superspeed finding, the flaw may have led scientists to underestimate it.

Citing sources familiar with the experiment, Science magazine’s website reported Wednesday that the 60-nanoseconds discrepancy that led to the startling speed conclusion came from a bad connection in a fiber optic cable connecting a GPS receiver (used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight) and a computer....

Yet a Thursday morning statement from CERN's OPERA team, the European science group that first reported the faster-than-light finding, noted that the faulty cable could have led to an undercalculation instead.

Neutrinos could move even faster than the speed of light than previously suggested, in other words.

Lol, God is fucking with the science community.

I think it is bad reporting. Here is the press release from CERN

"OPERA experiment reports anomaly in flight time of neutrinos from CERN to Gran SassoUPDATE 23 February 2012

The OPERA collaboration has informed its funding agencies and host laboratories that it has identified two possible effects that could have an influence on its neutrino timing measurement. These both require further tests with a short pulsed beam. If confirmed, one would increase the size of the measured effect, the other would diminish it. The first possible effect concerns an oscillator used to provide the time stamps for GPS synchronizations. It could have led to an overestimate of the neutrino's time of flight. The second concerns the optical fibre connector that brings the external GPS signal to the OPERA master clock, which may not have been functioning correctly when the measurements were taken. If this is the case, it could have led to an underestimate of the time of flight of the neutrinos. The potential extent of these two effects is being studied by the OPERA collaboration. New measurements with short pulsed beams are scheduled for May. "

Also
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/s...use-of-technical-problems-cern-says.html?_r=1

The second potential error is in the fiber-optic cabling that carried the GPS data five miles to the underground detector. The investigation discovered that for dimmer light pulses, the circuit receiving the data introduced delay — up to 60 billionths of a second — that could bring the neutrinos’ speed back under the speed of light. The circuit has now been fixed.

The wire is now fixed and another round of tests will begin next month. The first error wont be fixed until May, so.... I guess we will be waiting til May or later, with a slight update in March or April.

 

[JimBowie1958]

UPDATE:

Turns out they found out what was wrong after all.
A loose cable between the GPS and the computer was giving an improper time reading.
Sorry Neutrinos don't travel faster then light after all and relativity is safe (once again).
Was Einstein wrong - or was the cable loose? | Reuters

Not so fast: Scientists rethink stunning, faster-than-light particle finding | Fox News



Lol, God is fucking with the science community.

I think it is bad reporting.

The gist of the article as I read it is that it is not settled yet. The loose cable might not explain anything, but in fact might have masked an even faster trans-light speed.

Here is the press release from CERN

"OPERA experiment reports anomaly in flight time of neutrinos from CERN to Gran SassoUPDATE 23 February 2012

The OPERA collaboration has informed its funding agencies and host laboratories that it has identified two possible effects that could have an influence on its neutrino timing measurement. These both require further tests with a short pulsed beam. If confirmed, one would increase the size of the measured effect, the other would diminish it. The first possible effect concerns an oscillator used to provide the time stamps for GPS synchronizations. It could have led to an overestimate of the neutrino's time of flight. The second concerns the optical fibre connector that brings the external GPS signal to the OPERA master clock, which may not have been functioning correctly when the measurements were taken. If this is the case, it could have led to an underestimate of the time of flight of the neutrinos. The potential extent of these two effects is being studied by the OPERA collaboration. New measurements with short pulsed beams are scheduled for May. "

Also
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/s...use-of-technical-problems-cern-says.html?_r=1

The second potential error is in the fiber-optic cabling that carried the GPS data five miles to the underground detector. The investigation discovered that for dimmer light pulses, the circuit receiving the data introduced delay — up to 60 billionths of a second — that could bring the neutrinos’ speed back under the speed of light. The circuit has now been fixed.

The wire is now fixed and another round of tests will begin next month. The first error wont be fixed until May, so.... I guess we will be waiting til May or later, with a slight update in March or April.

I think you affirm the report I gave here in more detail.

But the important point is that we still dont know if the neutrinos went faster than light.

 

[editec]

Perhaps the whole issue is really meaningless?

Speed of light refers to distance traveled over time, yes?

What if the whole DISTANCE isn't understood very well?

Curved space/time, know what I mean?

No?

That's okay, nobody else really knows what it means, either...me included.

That's sort of my point.

 

[saveliberty]

The error is where people are concerned. The universe is as it was and will be.

 

[Conservative]

The shortest distance between to points is a straight line... in the opposite direction.

Ty Webb, Caddyshack