Want to see some REAL class warfare?

[Trajan]

A very clear miscarriage of justice. I wonder how much the DA cost to be bought off. One million? Two? Ten? Whatever the amount was, I hope he sold his soul and his ethics for a high amount.

That case is only one example of a systemic problem that pervades the entire criminal justice system.

Hell, I didn't even mention the fact that rich people can afford better legal counsel. After all, do you think O J Simpson would have gotten away with murder in the 90's without his 'dream team'?

I am sorry for this news to you but this has been the case since...well, mankind got 'organized'. Who wrote "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others," and when did he write it?

justice is sometimes a matter of simply, what you can afford. It has always been so.

 

[westwall]

Martin Erzinger: Morgan Stanley Manager's Hit-and-Run Controversy - ABC News

here is another link to the story.

According to this the 2 misdemeanors are due to a plea deal, and the guy is pleading guilty to it. Furthermore it is his first offense, and no drugs or alcohol were involved.

In most juristictions if it is your first offense you can usually get anything below attempted murder or rape plead down to a lesser charge.

Also, now that he has plead guilty the victim can sue the living shit out of him. THAT is where the more well off can get slammed by the system. There will be 100 lawyers willing to take this case, and a deal won't come cheap for the driver. If you also read down, the whole thing about not affecting his livelyhood is explained as making sure he can still afford resitution.

Not when someone is seriously injured. That places it into a whole new level. My assumption is the scumbag paid a huge anmount to the victim so that he would be OK with the reduced charges, then said scumbag paid a large amount to the DA's re-election campaign and there you have it. Justice is served...or sauteed if you prefer.

 

[Mustang]

A very clear miscarriage of justice. I wonder how much the DA cost to be bought off. One million? Two? Ten? Whatever the amount was, I hope he sold his soul and his ethics for a high amount.

That case is only one example of a systemic problem that pervades the entire criminal justice system.

Hell, I didn't even mention the fact that rich people can afford better legal counsel. After all, do you think O J Simpson would have gotten away with murder in the 90's without his 'dream team'?

I am sorry for this news to you but this has been the case since...well, mankind got 'organized'. Who wrote "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others," and when did he write it?

justice is sometimes a matter of simply, what you can afford. It has always been so.

I think you're missing the entire point. The founding fathers understood that there would be inequality. And as is often said, they weren't trying to make everyone equal. However, they DID strive to make everyone equal under the law.

The purpose of this thread is two-fold.

First, it's to dismiss the orchestrated idea that the wealthy in this country are somehow 'victims' of class warfare when talk is floated of raising their taxes to help tackle the deficit and debt at the very same time that massive cuts are on the horizon to tackle the same deficit and debt.

Secondly, it's to show that the REAL class warfare that exists in this country in the criminal justice system actually works in FAVOR of the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of the poor and the middle class.

Our country is supposed to be a nation of laws and not men, right? Then why is it that our political and financial elites get pardons for their crimes or their crimes aren't even investigated when a country like France doesn't have a problem putting THEIR former president on trial for corruption?

If our collective ideals are to have any real meaning at all, then we have to practice what we preach to others, and it's clear that we as a nation are not doing that.

When Ford pardoned Nixon, I think everyone believed (or at least hoped) that Nixon's pardon was a one time exception. Unfortunately, all it seemed to do is set a precedent for future pardons.

What is ALSO unfortunate, is that while our justice system has become ever more lenient toward the rich and powerful, it's has also become increasingly merciless to the poor and the middle class because as I noted in the OP, the US has 12.5 times as many people in prison today as we had in prison 40 years ago. And our population hasn't increased by over a factor of 10 in the last two generations.

That is the state of class warfare in our society. The rich aren't victims; they're beneficiaries in every sense of the definition.

 

[georgephillip]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only ******* morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

Capitalism requires a class based society where social groups have unequal access to resources, power, and prestige as the OP clearly demonstrates. Over the last thirty years access has become consistently more unequal:

"If the average American family still got the same share of income they earned in 1980, they would have an astounding $13,000 more in their pockets a year. It’s worth pausing to consider what our economy would be like today if middle-class consumers had that additional income to spend."

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Businessweek

FWIW, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will do absolutely nothing to stem the rising income inequality in the US.

 

[westwall]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only ******* morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

Capitalism requires a class based society where social groups have unequal access to resources, power, and prestige as the OP clearly demonstrates. Over the last thirty years access has become consistently more unequal:

"If the average American family still got the same share of income they earned in 1980, they would have an astounding $13,000 more in their pockets a year. It’s worth pausing to consider what our economy would be like today if middle-class consumers had that additional income to spend."

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Businessweek

FWIW, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will do absolutely nothing to stem the rising income inequality in the US.

No it doesn't you buffoon. Capitalism is the only system that allows poor people like me to become wealthy without breaking laws or murdering people. You're just a lazy asshole who thinks the world owes you something for breathing.

We don't. You OWE us for being a lazy fool.

 

[georgephillip]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only ******* morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

Capitalism requires a class based society where social groups have unequal access to resources, power, and prestige as the OP clearly demonstrates. Over the last thirty years access has become consistently more unequal:

"If the average American family still got the same share of income they earned in 1980, they would have an astounding $13,000 more in their pockets a year. It’s worth pausing to consider what our economy would be like today if middle-class consumers had that additional income to spend."

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Businessweek

FWIW, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will do absolutely nothing to stem the rising income inequality in the US.

No it doesn't you buffoon. Capitalism is the only system that allows poor people like me to become wealthy without breaking laws or murdering people. You're just a lazy asshole who thinks the world owes you something for breathing.

We don't. You OWE us for being a lazy fool.

Poor people like you become rich by sucking every rich dick that swings into range, Rover.

Capitalism concentrates wealth into fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation while throwing the table scraps to useful idiots like you.

 

[Mustang]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only ******* morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

Capitalism requires a class based society where social groups have unequal access to resources, power, and prestige as the OP clearly demonstrates. Over the last thirty years access has become consistently more unequal:

"If the average American family still got the same share of income they earned in 1980, they would have an astounding $13,000 more in their pockets a year. It’s worth pausing to consider what our economy would be like today if middle-class consumers had that additional income to spend."

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Businessweek

FWIW, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will do absolutely nothing to stem the rising income inequality in the US.

Campaign finance reform was tried. It not only failed, the floodgates have anonymously been opened up thanks to the SC case of Citizens United vs the FEC.

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therefore, it is my opinion that the ONLY way to change the system short of an uprising akin to what's happening in the ME (and we know that's not going to happen. Nor do I want it to happen), is to vote as many incumbents out of office as possible every two years. If people are REALLY sick of the way things are going, and I believe they are based on Congress' approval numbers, then they have to vote against their party affiliation candidate, especially in districts that are considered 'safe' due to the gerrymandering that has been going on for years.

If and when (and especially, until) members of both political parties know that they can't get away with the same ineffective governance they privide along with their business-as-usual favorable treatment toward the people or businesses who fund their re-elections and line their pockets, as well, average Americans at both ends of the political spectrum will always get the short end of the stick.

 

[georgephillip]

The very instrument we're using to communicate with right now could make that happen in less than one year. If millions of regular voters across the US are joined by the millions of eligible voters who don't usually see anything worth voting FOR unite and vote AGAINST all DC incumbents, Republicans AND Democrats alike, we will start the Second American Revolution without killing anyone.

FLUSH 100 or 200 or more Republicans AND Democrats from DC in a single news cycle and everything changes.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Poor people like you become rich by sucking every rich dick that swings into range, Rover.

No, they become rich by consistently others value. Often the value is created by hard work, sometimes by clever inventions, others by service.

This is the country where a college dropout from a middle class home became the richest man in the world. (Bill Gates)

Capitalism concentrates wealth into fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation while throwing the table scraps to useful idiots like you.

Ignorant statements by ignorant fools.

What stupidity you spread.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only ******* morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

ayup

Congrats!!!

On the new daddy thang that is.

 

[westwall]

Capitalism requires a class based society where social groups have unequal access to resources, power, and prestige as the OP clearly demonstrates. Over the last thirty years access has become consistently more unequal:

"If the average American family still got the same share of income they earned in 1980, they would have an astounding $13,000 more in their pockets a year. It’s worth pausing to consider what our economy would be like today if middle-class consumers had that additional income to spend."

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Businessweek

FWIW, "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican in the voting booth will do absolutely nothing to stem the rising income inequality in the US.

No it doesn't you buffoon. Capitalism is the only system that allows poor people like me to become wealthy without breaking laws or murdering people. You're just a lazy asshole who thinks the world owes you something for breathing.

We don't. You OWE us for being a lazy fool.

Poor people like you become rich by sucking every rich dick that swings into range, Rover.

Capitalism concentrates wealth into fewer and fewer hands with each passing generation while throwing the table scraps to useful idiots like you.

Only because lazy pricks like you allow it to happen buckwheat. You sit back and take your assistance checks and swill your beer while lazing around on the porch whining about "the man". Then when the next Dem shows up promising to give you an extra 25 cents to suck his cock and vote for him you trot down to the voting booth like a good little slave and elect another massa who'll treat you like a good boy!

YOU are the problem with capitalism fool. You are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Some of you, ignorantly, are conflating class and caste.

Look up the terms, please, and read.

 

[sgeppy118]

Class warfare garbage is just corporate propaganda, nothing more than PR work for them. And a poor attempt in my opinion. People should be outraged. Corporate America is painting the middle class as a bunch of leeches suckling at the tit. That's enough to piss me off. Americas GDP is 25% of the world because of the middle class not the elite. America's infrastructure is the best in the world because of the middle class not the elite. The playing field is NOT level anymore. There is an entitled class but it's not the middle. Americans work longer hours and take less vacation than anyone else in the world. Middle class Americans invest in there educations (college) and communities (housing) more than ever before, only to come into a work field where the virtuous corporations ship jobs over seas to exploit slave labor, or if they are lucky they land a "great" job where the company lets them work 39.5 hrs/wk to avoid giving them and their kids health insurance. Not sure how us middle class people can live with ourselves and our so called entitled views. The corporate greed is disgusting.

Plain and simple: If your not pissed off at these absurd accusations against hard working Americans, then America is no more.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This thread is devolving into the usual "Rape the Rich" bullshit from the mindless left. That's too bad, because Mustang touched upon an interesting subject in the OP.

We do have a disparity of "justice" in this nation, a severe one. The well connected are virtually immune to our laws, Marc Rich was as bad or worse that Bernie Madoff, but a quick bribe to Bill Clinton ensured that he was immune from prosecution for his crimes.

The Marc Rich Case: A Primer - TIME

Ted Kennedy murdered a girl who was pregnant, assumable with his child, but then, paternity tests were never run, due to his "status" he was never prosecuted.

Bill Clinton openly threatened Betty Currie that if she did not perjure herself he would fire her and ensure she lost her pension. But since he is a powerful democrat, he got away with it.

Time and again we see that there is one set of laws for the well connected, and a vastly different set for the commoners. And it isn't just being able to afford high end attorneys. Clinton was never Criminally CHARGED with witness tampering and racketeering, though absolutely proven guilty, it's on tape. Kennedy was never CHARGED with murder, though it's irrefutable that he did murder Mary Jo.

Back room deals are cut to keep the well connected from even facing a court room. No need for lawyers because the strings are pulled so that they aren't ever charged in the first place. This nation was founded on the principle of law, yet we see that this isn't what we have. Partisans cheer the subversion of the law because "their team" got away with it, and they care only about their party, not justice. The justice system is a farce and we all know it. Corruption is the rule, not the exception. Even at the municipal level the very concept of justice is perverted. We have traffic laws that exist for no reason other than to fine motorists. If a man with a gun targets a person purely for revenue, what can we call this other than armed robbery? All the way up the chain this goes, judges handing out long sentences to ensure that the prison guard union has plenty of work, in return for donations to keep the judge in office.

In California a woman got a ticket for talking on her cell phone. The law said it was a $20 fine.

So she was fined $20, then assessed a $250 processing fee, then an $80 court fee. So was this upholding the law, or just armed robbery?

Our justice system is rotten to the core, so what are we going to do about it? Play "Rape the Rich" games because that's what Obama wants? Should we be occupied with envy and greed like the Shitters, demanding more for Unions and Illegals, or should we really look at the shambles our injustice system is in?

 

[blastoff]

C'mon. If you guys were riding with us up here in First Class rather than back there in steerage, you'd take advantage of your status too.

 

[sgeppy118]

This thread is devolving into the usual "Rape the Rich" bullshit from the mindless left. That's too bad, because Mustang touched upon an interesting subject in the OP.

We do have a disparity of "justice" in this nation, a severe one. The well connected are virtually immune to our laws, Marc Rich was as bad or worse that Bernie Madoff, but a quick bribe to Bill Clinton ensured that he was immune from prosecution for his crimes.

The Marc Rich Case: A Primer - TIME

Ted Kennedy murdered a girl who was pregnant, assumable with his child, but then, paternity tests were never run, due to his "status" he was never prosecuted.

Bill Clinton openly threatened Betty Currie that if she did not perjure herself he would fire her and ensure she lost her pension. But since he is a powerful democrat, he got away with it.

Time and again we see that there is one set of laws for the well connected, and a vastly different set for the commoners. And it isn't just being able to afford high end attorneys. Clinton was never Criminally CHARGED with witness tampering and racketeering, though absolutely proven guilty, it's on tape. Kennedy was never CHARGED with murder, though it's irrefutable that he did murder Mary Jo.

Back room deals are cut to keep the well connected from even facing a court room. No need for lawyers because the strings are pulled so that they aren't ever charged in the first place. This nation was founded on the principle of law, yet we see that this isn't what we have. Partisans cheer the subversion of the law because "their team" got away with it, and they care only about their party, not justice. The justice system is a farce and we all know it. Corruption is the rule, not the exception. Even at the municipal level the very concept of justice is perverted. We have traffic laws that exist for no reason other than to fine motorists. If a man with a gun targets a person purely for revenue, what can we call this other than armed robbery? All the way up the chain this goes, judges handing out long sentences to ensure that the prison guard union has plenty of work, in return for donations to keep the judge in office.

In California a woman got a ticket for talking on her cell phone. The law said it was a $20 fine.

So she was fined $20, then assessed a $250 processing fee, then an $80 court fee. So was this upholding the law, or just armed robbery?

Our justice system is rotten to the core, so what are we going to do about it? Play "Rape the Rich" games because that's what Obama wants? Should we be occupied with envy and greed like the Shitters, demanding more for Unions and Illegals, or should we really look at the shambles our injustice system is in?

Regarding the comment: "Rape the Rich" from the mindless left.

Let me see if I understand your point of view. Wealth and power are in fact concentrated to a decreasing number of people; and you take objection to their abuse of power to manipulate the justice system. HOWEVER, you find it inanely absurd (to the point that it is mindless) to think that the same wealth/power is not used to manipulate the law making process, tax code, or financial institutions. Is that accurate?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Regarding the comment: "Rape the Rich" from the mindless left.

Let me see if I understand your point of view. Wealth and power are in fact concentrated to a decreasing number of people;

Not really.

The the population in the top 1%, 5% and 10% of income earners has stayed pretty static relative to total population since 1990.

and you take objection to their abuse of power to manipulate the justice system.

Yes, I oppose corruption. I have no issue with wealth. The more wealth created, the better. I support wealth and oppose corruption.

I'm the opposite of the democrats, I suppose, who oppose wealth and favor corruption.

HOWEVER, you find it inanely absurd (to the point that it is mindless) to think that the same wealth/power is not used to manipulate the law making process, tax code, or financial institutions. Is that accurate?

Again, the issue is one of corruption. Equal justice under the law is the foundation of this nation. We have lost that, we have distinctly different laws for the well connected than we do for the common people.

Wealth and power often go hand in hand, in the case of the Clintons, the wealth is a by-product of political power. It is the connections that pervert the law though, not the wealth.

Simply put, I believe that Barack Obama should be held to the same law that Tyrone Jackson in San Bernardino is - and I don't think you can argue that he is.

 

[sgeppy118]

Regarding the comment: "Rape the Rich" from the mindless left.

Let me see if I understand your point of view. Wealth and power are in fact concentrated to a decreasing number of people;

Not really.

The the population in the top 1%, 5% and 10% of income earners has stayed pretty static relative to total population since 1990.

and you take objection to their abuse of power to manipulate the justice system.

Yes, I oppose corruption. I have no issue with wealth. The more wealth created, the better. I support wealth and oppose corruption.

I'm the opposite of the democrats, I suppose, who oppose wealth and favor corruption.

HOWEVER, you find it inanely absurd (to the point that it is mindless) to think that the same wealth/power is not used to manipulate the law making process, tax code, or financial institutions. Is that accurate?

Again, the issue is one of corruption. Equal justice under the law is the foundation of this nation. We have lost that, we have distinctly different laws for the well connected than we do for the common people.

Wealth and power often go hand in hand, in the case of the Clintons, the wealth is a by-product of political power. It is the connections that pervert the law though, not the wealth.

Simply put, I believe that Barack Obama should be held to the same law that Tyrone Jackson in San Bernardino is - and I don't think you can argue that he is.

I take offense when you call people mindless who would take your very logic, and say "Has all wealth and power in this country been earned by the people who wield it." The answer is no. People love the Bill Gates of this country and have no problem with them. Coincidentally, most wealthy people who earn their wealth (like him) claim that they don't carry the public burden on a fair level. The point of those "mindless" people you accuse, is that much of that wealth and power has been accumulated through corruption and exploitation. Two concepts that led our country to rebel in the first place (see taxation without representation). The same thing is happening now on a more convoluted level with lobbyists (powerful) writing our laws and tax code.

Your logic is somewhat confusing to me is all I'm saying. I don't think Americans HATE rich. They just don't like being lied to, cheated, deceived, and exploited. In the very same way that takes place in our justice system.

 

[martybegan]

Martin Erzinger: Morgan Stanley Manager's Hit-and-Run Controversy - ABC News

here is another link to the story.

According to this the 2 misdemeanors are due to a plea deal, and the guy is pleading guilty to it. Furthermore it is his first offense, and no drugs or alcohol were involved.

In most juristictions if it is your first offense you can usually get anything below attempted murder or rape plead down to a lesser charge.

Also, now that he has plead guilty the victim can sue the living shit out of him. THAT is where the more well off can get slammed by the system. There will be 100 lawyers willing to take this case, and a deal won't come cheap for the driver. If you also read down, the whole thing about not affecting his livelyhood is explained as making sure he can still afford resitution.

Not when someone is seriously injured. That places it into a whole new level. My assumption is the scumbag paid a huge anmount to the victim so that he would be OK with the reduced charges, then said scumbag paid a large amount to the DA's re-election campaign and there you have it. Justice is served...or sauteed if you prefer.

Not in reality. I have a relative who works for the DA by me. Unless the person has priors, or someone basically dies, running from an accident is almost always pled down to a misdimeanor if the person pleads guilty (guilty, not no contest).

how do you know the person driving is a scumbag? Just because he makes more money than most people automatically turns him into a giant douche? How many times have people used the "I was in a panic" excuse when a hit and run happens?

All you get out of trying him for a felony is a trial you might lose, and the possibility he loses his job so when the victim tries to sue they get jack shit.

 

[Flopper]

Class warfare garbage is just corporate propaganda, nothing more than PR work for them. And a poor attempt in my opinion. People should be outraged. Corporate America is painting the middle class as a bunch of leeches suckling at the tit. That's enough to piss me off. Americas GDP is 25% of the world because of the middle class not the elite. America's infrastructure is the best in the world because of the middle class not the elite. The playing field is NOT level anymore. There is an entitled class but it's not the middle. Americans work longer hours and take less vacation than anyone else in the world. Middle class Americans invest in there educations (college) and communities (housing) more than ever before, only to come into a work field where the virtuous corporations ship jobs over seas to exploit slave labor, or if they are lucky they land a "great" job where the company lets them work 39.5 hrs/wk to avoid giving them and their kids health insurance. Not sure how us middle class people can live with ourselves and our so called entitled views. The corporate greed is disgusting.

Plain and simple: If your not pissed off at these absurd accusations against hard working Americans, then America is no more.

A large, prosperous middle class may mediate between rich and poor, creating the structural foundation upon which democratic political processes may operate. Without a health middle class a democratic government can not last. A shrinking middle class is a danger sign. Hopefully our leaders are paying attention.