VTOL for the 21st Century: Why Russia's Working on New Vertical Takeoff Fighter

[Daryl Hunt]

VTOL for the 21st Century: Why Russia's Working on New Vertical Takeoff Fighter
Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov has confirmed that work is underway on the design of a new vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) aircraft. Military observer Vadim Saranov outlines what's driving the military's interest in this class of aircraft, and considers whether Russia's aviation industry has the resources and know-how to build it.

 

[Bleipriester]

Russia develops many types but what about quantity?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Russia develops many types but what about quantity?

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero. The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

 

[Bleipriester]

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero.

This was meant in general. The best planes do mean nothing if you have five of each.

The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

Why would the Americans help the Russians to make warplanes?

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

Sure thing. Even the Americans had a hard time to make the Osprey.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero.

This was meant in general. The best planes do mean nothing if you have five of each.

The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

Why would the Americans help the Russians to make warplanes?

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

Sure thing. Even the Americans had a hard time to make the Osprey.

Lockheed had already flown that the Yak-141 wanted. They did this in the 60s.
Lockheed XV-4A Hummingbird used vector thrust later adopted by many of the more successful V/STOL aircraft. The B model ended up showing more promise by using lift engines and vector thrust. Just part of the solution.

Ryan XV-5 Vertifan used a lift fan driven by modified J-85 engines. This was the other half of the equation. But Ryan never furthered it as there were no funds available. How Lockheed got it I have no idea. But it was the last piece in making the F-35B work.

The reason Lockheed was brought in by Yak was that Lockheed was the only remaining company that had a successful v/STOL bird that actually flew for military applications. The Yak-38 borrowed heavily from the Hummingbird. It failed for the same reasons the A Hummingbird did as well. But the Yak-141 used what the Hummingbird B used or the idea anyway. It used lift engines. Who better to assist them than the company that actually made it work. By the 1970s, Lockheed had already abandoned using lift engines so they were more than glad to help out Yak. Lockheed was already experimenting with the Lift Fan and diverted exhaust method by then that brought us the F-35B.

You might think the F-35B was cutting edge but both the thrust diversion and lift fan had already been tested and flown successfully in the early 60s (1962 for both Lockheed and Ryan). It's funny how things went full circle. Ryan was bought out, then sold, then resold and ended up with Rockwell who is a sub contractor for the F-35.

 

[Bleipriester]

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero.

This was meant in general. The best planes do mean nothing if you have five of each.

The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

Why would the Americans help the Russians to make warplanes?

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

Sure thing. Even the Americans had a hard time to make the Osprey.

Lockheed had already flown that the Yak-141 wanted. They did this in the 60s.
Lockheed XV-4A Hummingbird used vector thrust later adopted by many of the more successful V/STOL aircraft. The B model ended up showing more promise by using lift engines and vector thrust. Just part of the solution.

Ryan XV-5 Vertifan used a lift fan driven by modified J-85 engines. This was the other half of the equation. But Ryan never furthered it as there were no funds available. How Lockheed got it I have no idea. But it was the last piece in making the F-35B work.

The reason Lockheed was brought in by Yak was that Lockheed was the only remaining company that had a successful v/STOL bird that actually flew for military applications. The Yak-38 borrowed heavily from the Hummingbird. It failed for the same reasons the A Hummingbird did as well. But the Yak-141 used what the Hummingbird B used or the idea anyway. It used lift engines. Who better to assist them than the company that actually made it work. By the 1970s, Lockheed had already abandoned using lift engines so they were more than glad to help out Yak. Lockheed was already experimenting with the Lift Fan and diverted exhaust method by then that brought us the F-35B.

You might think the F-35B was cutting edge but both the thrust diversion and lift fan had already been tested and flown successfully in the early 60s (1962 for both Lockheed and Ryan). It's funny how things went full circle. Ryan was bought out, then sold, then resold and ended up with Rockwell who is a sub contractor for the F-35.

According to to your article, it seems Lockheed bought technology from Yakovlev.

However, a promising V/STOL fighter was developed in Germany but it was canceled when the government demanded another Blitzbomber. It already worked but wasn´t continued due to the change in the government demands. A similar fate suffered the F-104. It was transformed into a Blitzbomber. While already dangerous to fly, the increased weight reduces its safety further, resulting in huge losses. Had the VJ 101 been continued, probably hundreds would have been commissioned by the German airforce as it was made to replace the F-104.

EWR VJ 101 - Wikipedia

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero.

This was meant in general. The best planes do mean nothing if you have five of each.

The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

Why would the Americans help the Russians to make warplanes?

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

Sure thing. Even the Americans had a hard time to make the Osprey.

Lockheed had already flown that the Yak-141 wanted. They did this in the 60s.
Lockheed XV-4A Hummingbird used vector thrust later adopted by many of the more successful V/STOL aircraft. The B model ended up showing more promise by using lift engines and vector thrust. Just part of the solution.

Ryan XV-5 Vertifan used a lift fan driven by modified J-85 engines. This was the other half of the equation. But Ryan never furthered it as there were no funds available. How Lockheed got it I have no idea. But it was the last piece in making the F-35B work.

The reason Lockheed was brought in by Yak was that Lockheed was the only remaining company that had a successful v/STOL bird that actually flew for military applications. The Yak-38 borrowed heavily from the Hummingbird. It failed for the same reasons the A Hummingbird did as well. But the Yak-141 used what the Hummingbird B used or the idea anyway. It used lift engines. Who better to assist them than the company that actually made it work. By the 1970s, Lockheed had already abandoned using lift engines so they were more than glad to help out Yak. Lockheed was already experimenting with the Lift Fan and diverted exhaust method by then that brought us the F-35B.

You might think the F-35B was cutting edge but both the thrust diversion and lift fan had already been tested and flown successfully in the early 60s (1962 for both Lockheed and Ryan). It's funny how things went full circle. Ryan was bought out, then sold, then resold and ended up with Rockwell who is a sub contractor for the F-35.

According to to your article, it seems Lockheed bought technology from Yakovlev.

However, a promising V/STOL fighter was developed in Germany but it was canceled when the government demanded another Blitzbomber. It already worked but wasn´t continued due to the change in the government demands. A similar fate suffered the F-104. It was transformed into a Blitzbomber. While already dangerous to fly, the increased weight reduces its safety further, resulting in huge losses. Had the VJ 101 been continued, probably hundreds would have been commissioned by the German airforce as it was made to replace the F-104.

EWR VJ 101 - Wikipedia

The Modified F-104 and others have more in common with the Osprey. Meanwhile, the Lockheed was the forerunner of the AV-8. And the mixing of the Ryan and the Lockheed (both going for the same bid in 1962) brought us the F-35B.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Keeping to the subject, the quantity is Zero.

This was meant in general. The best planes do mean nothing if you have five of each.

The Yak-38 was a disaster and it's followon to cure the ills, the Yak-141 was cancelled before production. Lockheed did help with the 141 but with the cancellation of the program, it became to not.

Why would the Americans help the Russians to make warplanes?

This would be a new program and it's a tall learning curve.

Sure thing. Even the Americans had a hard time to make the Osprey.

Lockheed had already flown that the Yak-141 wanted. They did this in the 60s.
Lockheed XV-4A Hummingbird used vector thrust later adopted by many of the more successful V/STOL aircraft. The B model ended up showing more promise by using lift engines and vector thrust. Just part of the solution.

Ryan XV-5 Vertifan used a lift fan driven by modified J-85 engines. This was the other half of the equation. But Ryan never furthered it as there were no funds available. How Lockheed got it I have no idea. But it was the last piece in making the F-35B work.

The reason Lockheed was brought in by Yak was that Lockheed was the only remaining company that had a successful v/STOL bird that actually flew for military applications. The Yak-38 borrowed heavily from the Hummingbird. It failed for the same reasons the A Hummingbird did as well. But the Yak-141 used what the Hummingbird B used or the idea anyway. It used lift engines. Who better to assist them than the company that actually made it work. By the 1970s, Lockheed had already abandoned using lift engines so they were more than glad to help out Yak. Lockheed was already experimenting with the Lift Fan and diverted exhaust method by then that brought us the F-35B.

You might think the F-35B was cutting edge but both the thrust diversion and lift fan had already been tested and flown successfully in the early 60s (1962 for both Lockheed and Ryan). It's funny how things went full circle. Ryan was bought out, then sold, then resold and ended up with Rockwell who is a sub contractor for the F-35.

According to to your article, it seems Lockheed bought technology from Yakovlev.

However, a promising V/STOL fighter was developed in Germany but it was canceled when the government demanded another Blitzbomber. It already worked but wasn´t continued due to the change in the government demands. A similar fate suffered the F-104. It was transformed into a Blitzbomber. While already dangerous to fly, the increased weight reduces its safety further, resulting in huge losses. Had the VJ 101 been continued, probably hundreds would have been commissioned by the German airforce as it was made to replace the F-104.

EWR VJ 101 - Wikipedia

The ONLY country that had such a dismal record for the F-104 was Germany. The Italians fell madly in love with it and kept it until about the 2000. What was found was that they pilot training and ground support were both shoddy. The F-104 had to be prepped and flown the right way. Italy put their first pilots through the German Flight school, noted this and then changed to the US Flight School for their pilots. If you didn't treat the F-104 with respect, it could kill you. Give it the proper respect and there was nothing that could fly with you. Even today, it would give the modern fighters fits in an air to air confrontation.

 

[Bleipriester]

I know and said nothing different.

How Germany lost 270 of its 915 F-104 Starfighters