VOX: "Obamacare’s individual mandate is unpopular. But it’s crucial to making Obamacare work"

[basquebromance]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

 

[Missourian]

Get rid of it.

 

[JoeB131]

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

so what's the alternative?

Allow insurance companies to call everything a "pre-existing" condition?

Or don't allow them, but then allow people to buy insurance when they get sick?

That would bankrupt the Insurance Industry pretty quickly.

 

[dblack]

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

so what's the alternative?

Allow insurance companies to call everything a "pre-existing" condition?

As long as they are honest with their customers before they sell them a policy, it's none of your business.

 

[JoeB131]

As long as they are honest with their customers before they sell them a policy, it's none of your business.

But you just hit on the exact problem. THEY AREN'T HONEST. They are out to make money.

And frankly, the customers aren't going to be honest, either. They'll lie about their medical conditions if they can get away with it.

And this is why you need government, buddy. To protect us from each other and sometimes ourselves. But you think it will all work with Libertarian Fairy dust.

 

[MadChemist]

As long as they are honest with their customers before they sell them a policy, it's none of your business.

But you just hit on the exact problem. THEY AREN'T HONEST. They are out to make money.

And frankly, the customers aren't going to be honest, either. They'll lie about their medical conditions if they can get away with it.

And this is why you need government, buddy. To protect us from each other and sometimes ourselves. But you think it will all work with Libertarian Fairy dust.

That is what I don't get with you.

1. I have always had good luck with my insurance. In the case of my car insurance, I had an agent call and ask why I had the policy I had as the car had aged. As a result of his efforts, my premiums were reduced. I have never had an issue with getting my health insurance to cover things they said they'd cover. And I know plenty of people who have had the same experience.

2. You say they are not interest so that is why we need government. Like the government is any more honest. Look at the morons running the show now. That simply seems foolish to me.

I know there are issues with insurance companies in some areas and they are profit driven. I don't find that as reprehensible as you do, but that is for a different day.

 

[JoeB131]

That is what I don't get with you.

1. I have always had good luck with my insurance. In the case of my car insurance, I had an agent call and ask why I had the policy I had as the car had aged. As a result of his efforts, my premiums were reduced. I have never had an issue with getting my health insurance to cover things they said they'd cover. And I know plenty of people who have had the same experience.

I had to spend two years fighting with Cigna to get treatment that my doctor said I needed, and at the end of that, they made our employer get rid of any of us who ran up medical bills.

Health insurance isn't like auto insurance.

2. You say they are not interest so that is why we need government. Like the government is any more honest. Look at the morons running the show now. That simply seems foolish to me.

Here's the thing. Yup, the government is run by crooks, but their biggest fear is that we might vote them out of office if they don't deliver the goods.

That's what keeps them "honest'. There's no such restraint on big insurance. In fact, they get rewarded for cheating the customers. The CEO of Cigna got a nine figure retirement package for years of cheating people out of insurance they had paid for.

I know there are issues with insurance companies in some areas and they are profit driven. I don't find that as reprehensible as you do, but that is for a different day.

Profiting off of human suffering IS reprehensible.

Now, here's the thing. I really do think some things are better served by a capitalist model. Health Care isn't one of them. YOu see, unlike buying a car, where I can go with a cheaper car, or get a few more years out of my old car, I really don't have that option with my health. That gives the seller of the service a big advantage over the buyer.

 

[dblack]

As long as they are honest with their customers before they sell them a policy, it's none of your business.

But you just hit on the exact problem. THEY AREN'T HONEST. They are out to make money.

Is that they way it works in your head? Anyone out to make money is dishonest???

And frankly, the customers aren't going to be honest, either. They'll lie about their medical conditions if they can get away with it.

And this is why you need government, buddy. To protect us from each other and sometimes ourselves. But you think it will all work with Libertarian Fairy dust.

Once again, Libertarians aren't anarchists, and people who make money aren't inherently dishonest. When they are, yes, we need government to step in. But you want government to assume everyone is guilty from the outset, that anyone who seeks gain is evil. That's just dumb.

 

[JoeB131]

Is that they way it works in your head? Anyone out to make money is dishonest???

I think when you sell someone an insurance policy, and give them something that doesn't cover them when they get sick, that's really dishonest. Don't you?

Once again, Libertarians aren't anarchists, and people who make money aren't inherently dishonest. When they are, yes, we need government to step in. But you want government to assume everyone is guilty from the outset, that anyone who seeks gain is evil. That's just dumb.

Yeah, you aren't anarchists. You guys want the benefits of civilization, you just don't want to do the things to make it work. Libertarians are teenagers who never grew up.

I'll admit, my wonderful experiences with Cigna in the Oughts has biased me. But that shit totally happened. That's why I get a little hinky when I hear someone say, "Hey, let's loosen up the regs on Insurance, that'll fix everything!"

 

[dblack]

Is that they way it works in your head? Anyone out to make money is dishonest???

I think when you sell someone an insurance policy, and give them something that doesn't cover them when they get sick, that's really dishonest. Don't you?

Not if the policy clearly notes what is covered and what isn't.

Once again, Libertarians aren't anarchists, and people who make money aren't inherently dishonest. When they are, yes, we need government to step in. But you want government to assume everyone is guilty from the outset, that anyone who seeks gain is evil. That's just dumb.

Yeah, you aren't anarchists. You guys want the benefits of civilization, you just don't want to do the things to make it work. Libertarians are teenagers who never grew up.[/quote]

More of your lurid fantasies.

I'll admit, my wonderful experiences with Cigna in the Oughts has biased me. But that shit totally happened. That's why I get a little hinky when I hear someone say, "Hey, let's loosen up the regs on Insurance, that'll fix everything!"

Funny thing is, I've had the same negative experiences with insurance. That's why I refuse to buy their products. You're solution is to force everyone to buy their products. That's some sick shit.

 

[MadChemist]

I think when you sell someone an insurance policy, and give them something that doesn't cover them when they get sick, that's really dishonest. Don't you?

That isn't universal as I've already explained.

There are plenty of business models that are built around customer satisfaction. I've seen it at work in health care.

 

[MadChemist]

Here's the thing. Yup, the government is run by crooks, but their biggest fear is that we might vote them out of office if they don't deliver the goods.

That's what keeps them "honest'. There's no such restraint on big insurance. In fact, they get rewarded for cheating the customers. The CEO of Cigna got a nine figure retirement package for years of cheating people out of insurance they had paid for.

There is nothing to support this model.

Most of congress gets re-elected in spite of poll numbers in the single digits. People don't like congress...but they like their congressman.

Incumbents are hard to beat. It takes a lot to oust one.

So, NO it does not keep them honest. Just look at what you have now. You really think they are doing a "good job" ?

As for Cigna, since I don't know details I'll take your word for it. However, as I stated....that isn't universal. Not by a long shot.

 

[JoeB131]

Not if the policy clearly notes what is covered and what isn't.

Ah, yes, that's it.

We should expect an average working person with a HS Education to be able to outwit a team of crack lawyers!

That's it!

You see, this is why I fucking hate Libertarian Retards. A bunch of rich people have convinced you that the things that protect you from them are restricting your freedom, then you all stand around fucking slack jawed when they fuck you. Jesus fucking Christ I wish we still had Saber Tooth Tigers to weed you people out of the gene pool.

Funny thing is, I've had the same negative experiences with insurance. That's why I refuse to buy their products. You're solution is to force everyone to buy their products. That's some sick shit.

Guy, My solution is single payer. Always has been. The way the rest of the world does it.

 

[JoeB131]

There is nothing to support this model.

Most of congress gets re-elected in spite of poll numbers in the single digits. People don't like congress...but they like their congressman.

Yet we've had Congress change hands twice in the last 12 years. Imagine that.

So, NO it does not keep them honest. Just look at what you have now. You really think they are doing a "good job" ?

NOt when the Republicans are in charge, no.

As for Cigna, since I don't know details I'll take your word for it. However, as I stated....that isn't universal. Not by a long shot.

Well, maybe you should read up on Cigna. Maybe you can start with a young lady named Nataline Sarkisyan. She was a 17 year old who needed a liver transplant that Cigna denied because she only had a 50% of surviving. This was after her father paid for premiums.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That's why I get a little hinky when I hear someone say, "Hey, let's loosen up the regs on Insurance, that'll fix everything!"

I get a little hinky when someone tells me that I need the federal government to protect me from myself.

 

[MadChemist]

There is nothing to support this model.

Most of congress gets re-elected in spite of poll numbers in the single digits. People don't like congress...but they like their congressman.

Yet we've had Congress change hands twice in the last 12 years. Imagine that.

It does not take much to have congress change hands....or are you actually arguing that we turn representatives over routinely (vote them out of office) ?

 

[MadChemist]

Well, maybe you should read up on Cigna. Maybe you can start with a young lady named Nataline Sarkisyan. She was a 17 year old who needed a liver transplant that Cigna denied because she only had a 50% of surviving. This was after her father paid for premiums.

How does anyone rebuff a claim of "not being universal" with an anecdote ?

You really do come here to just spout off...don't you ?

 

[MadChemist]

Guy, My solution is single payer. Always has been. The way the rest of the world does it.

Of course.

We spend 10,000 per person per year, but single payer is somehow going to solve that.

Go it.

 

[JoeB131]

I get a little hinky when someone tells me that I need the federal government to protect me from myself.

I'm sure you do... but in your case, "self protection" should probably include mandetory medication.

How does anyone rebuff a claim of "not being universal" with an anecdote ?

You really do come here to just spout off...don't you ?

It's hardly an anecdote. It says a lot about how Cigna operates, doesn't it.

Hey, first five years I had Cigna, it was awesome, they took my money, I rarely got sick or had to go to a doctor....

It's when I had to see a doctor it got kind of awful. 'Oh, wait, this is an elective surgery".

Of course.

We spend 10,000 per person per year, but single payer is somehow going to solve that.

Go it.

So let's look at that.

HEre's a chart of what they pay per capita in advanced nations.

Now, check it out, the United Kingdom, where they have completely socialized medicine, the government runs everything, including the hospitals, they spend $3917 per citizen on health care.

Canada, where they have single payer, but the hospitals are still private interests, they spend $4506 per citizen.

But the Good old US of A, where we let big corporations profit off of human Misery, we spend $9024 per citizen.

Wow.

Oh, the British and Canadians live longer and have lower infant mortality rates than we do.

 

[dblack]

Not if the policy clearly notes what is covered and what isn't.

Ah, yes, that's it.

We should expect an average working person with a HS Education to be able to outwit a team of crack lawyers!

That's certainly not what I'm saying. That's actually the kind of regulation we need from government.

But the thread is about the individual mandate, which has nothing to do with protecting consumers from getting screwed by insurance companies. In fact, it pins us down so we can't get away.

That's it!

You see, this is why I fucking hate Libertarian Retards. A bunch of rich people have convinced you that the things that protect you from them are restricting your freedom, then you all stand around fucking slack jawed when they fuck you. Jesus fucking Christ I wish we still had Saber Tooth Tigers to weed you people out of the gene pool.

See above. You're masturbating again.

Funny thing is, I've had the same negative experiences with insurance. That's why I refuse to buy their products. You're solution is to force everyone to buy their products. That's some sick shit.

Guy, My solution is single payer. Always has been. The way the rest of the world does it.

Yes, you want to replace a cabal of corporate overlords with one. I think that's silly, but the thread is about the mandate. Do you support it? Do you like being forced to buy insurance from the same crooked bastards who have been screwing you all these years.