CDZ Virginia Parents: Runaway Carriage

[OldLady]

Teachers are among the stupidest people around. Not knowing the news isn't believable, it was agenda driven without the ability to see the unintended consequences. I've met principles that probably couldn't get hired serving fast food.

What 'agenda' do you mean? Common Core? Something else? I am interested, not baiting you.

 

[Iceweasel]

Teachers are among the stupidest people around. Not knowing the news isn't believable, it was agenda driven without the ability to see the unintended consequences. I've met principles that probably couldn't get hired serving fast food.

What 'agenda' do you mean? Common Core? Something else? I am interested, not baiting you.

Liberalism in all its' finery. Public ed is almost entirely run by liberals and indoctrinating kids into their world view supersedes academics. I've seen many examples, been in numerous schools and the copy on the walls and paperwork look like devotion to a religious order.

 

[OldLady]

Teachers are among the stupidest people around. Not knowing the news isn't believable, it was agenda driven without the ability to see the unintended consequences. I've met principles that probably couldn't get hired serving fast food.

What 'agenda' do you mean? Common Core? Something else? I am interested, not baiting you.

Liberalism in all its' finery. Public ed is almost entirely run by liberals and indoctrinating kids into their world view supersedes academics. I've seen many examples, been in numerous schools and the copy on the walls and paperwork look like devotion to a religious order.

Thanks for explaining. Teachers do have a big influence on their students; I'm just not sure the agenda is a bad thing. My parents were very conservative and somewhat racist, as most of their generation was. My teachers taught me black people don't smell funny and that it would be okay if one moved into the neighborhood. Even though they did influence me, I don't think it was bad, evil stuff. Is there anything wrong with tolerance or are they teaching other things I don't know about?

 

[Iceweasel]

Is social engineering the function of public ed in your mind then? Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think. They should focus in reading, writing, math, science, not self esteem, acceptance of every lifestyle (except apparently conservativism) sexual morality,


U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science
American 15-year-olds continue to turn in flat results in a test that measures students' proficiency in reading, math and science worldwide, failing to crack the global top 20.

The Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA, collects test results from 65 countries for its rankings, which come out every three years. The latest results, from 2012, show that U.S. students ranked below average in math among the world's most-developed countries. They were close to average in science and reading.

"In mathematics, 29 nations and other jurisdictions outperformed the United States by a statistically significant margin, up from 23 three years ago," reports Education Week. "In science, 22 education systems scored above the U.S. average, up from 18 in 2009."

In reading, 19 other locales scored higher than U.S. students — a jump from nine in 2009, when the last assessment was performed.

The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan, followed by Lichtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Estonia.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think. .

BINGO!!!!!!!!!

 

[320 Years of History]

...How could any parent honestly think their child's religious beliefs were at stake? That's where, it seems to me, the parents went from reasonable to irrational. And then that hopped up fear and hatred spread via social media until strangers outside the district, outside the state, were threatening that classroom (and I'm sure the teacher, as well).

That's where my post was directed, not so much at fingerpointing, because everyone involved could have done better.

I cannot help but concur with your incredulity at the parents' who thought that by using the word shahada as the illustrative example of a piece of calligraphy that somehow merely attempting to draw it would somehow impugn their kids' non-Islamic religious beliefs. There is a clear difference between teaching religion as a dogma and teaching it, or using an element of it, as an academic pursuit. It's pitiful that the kids have parents who (1) apparently cannot tell the difference, (2) fail to recognize their ignorance in that regard, and (3) act on it while remaining in that state of ignorance.

If the school offers courses on comparative religion, I wonder if the parents view them as attempts to convert their children? Below are two course descriptions for classes taught at at my high school alma mater. I can only surmise that were that course offered in Virginia public schools, the governor may have to call out the national guard.

Introduction to World Religions: The Abrahamic Traditions
This course serves as an introduction to the Abrahamic religious traditions -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - as well as the study of religion as an academic discipline. Together, we will familiarize ourselves with the teachings, rituals, myths, and history of these important traditions and consider their impact on modern politics, society, and culture. Drawing on fiction, film, and journalism, we will try to understand sympathetically what these religions mean “from the inside” for the individuals and communities that practice them.

Lower Mid Humanities Philosophy and Religion
Exploring philosophical and religious developments from the end of the 18th century to the present, the course examines challenges to older worldviews and images of human nature from new developments in science; tensions between traditional ways of life and new cultural norms; conflicting ideas of the role and proper liberty of the individual in changing societies; new critiques of how power and wealth are distributed, on both national and global levels; conversations among religions in a shrinking world; growing awareness of cultural relativism; and the emergence of international human rights.
​

Equally disconcerting is the school district's response. Closing all its schools in the county, as opposed, say, to just the one where the calligraphy assignment was given. Every school in the county? Talk about kneejerk reactions. Then again, perhaps the Augusta County Public School administrators decision was appropriate? Maybe the citizens there are really as dangerous as they feared? I have to believe that those administrators know the county and its residents' better than I do.

 

[OldLady]

Is social engineering the function of public ed in your mind then? Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think. They should focus in reading, writing, math, science, not self esteem, acceptance of every lifestyle (except apparently conservativism) sexual morality,


U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science
American 15-year-olds continue to turn in flat results in a test that measures students' proficiency in reading, math and science worldwide, failing to crack the global top 20.

The Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA, collects test results from 65 countries for its rankings, which come out every three years. The latest results, from 2012, show that U.S. students ranked below average in math among the world's most-developed countries. They were close to average in science and reading.

"In mathematics, 29 nations and other jurisdictions outperformed the United States by a statistically significant margin, up from 23 three years ago," reports Education Week. "In science, 22 education systems scored above the U.S. average, up from 18 in 2009."

In reading, 19 other locales scored higher than U.S. students — a jump from nine in 2009, when the last assessment was performed.

The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan, followed by Lichtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Estonia.

Do you think teaching tolerance is getting in the way of American students' proficiency? No. I'll tell you why American students have traditionally done worse than other countries: Americans do not value education as much as Japan and other countries. We are pragmatists--do-ers not thinkers. Too many parents see schools as the enemy and loudly announce "TEACHERS ARE AMONG THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE AROUND." That really teaches our kids to value their time in the classroom, doesn't it? Schools can do better, but it needs to start at home with respect for education. If you've got a beef with a teacher, have the discussion outside the kiddies' earshot.

 

[OldLady]

...How could any parent honestly think their child's religious beliefs were at stake? That's where, it seems to me, the parents went from reasonable to irrational. And then that hopped up fear and hatred spread via social media until strangers outside the district, outside the state, were threatening that classroom (and I'm sure the teacher, as well).

That's where my post was directed, not so much at fingerpointing, because everyone involved could have done better.

I cannot help but concur with your incredulity at the parents' who thought that by using the word shahada as the illustrative example of a piece of calligraphy that somehow merely attempting to draw it would somehow impugn their kids' non-Islamic religious beliefs. There is a clear difference between teaching religion as a dogma and teaching it, or using an element of it, as an academic pursuit. It's pitiful that the kids have parents who (1) apparently cannot tell the difference, (2) fail to recognize their ignorance in that regard, and (3) act on it while remaining in that state of ignorance.

If the school offers courses on comparative religion, I wonder if the parents view them as attempts to convert their children? Below are two course descriptions for classes taught at at my high school alma mater. I can only surmise that were that course offered in Virginia school, the governor may have to call out the national guard.

Introduction to World Religions: The Abrahamic Traditions
This course serves as an introduction to the Abrahamic religious traditions -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - as well as the study of religion as an academic discipline. Together, we will familiarize ourselves with the teachings, rituals, myths, and history of these important traditions and consider their impact on modern politics, society, and culture. Drawing on fiction, film, and journalism, we will try to understand sympathetically what these religions mean “from the inside” for the individuals and communities that practice them.

Lower Mid Humanities Philosophy and Religion
Exploring philosophical and religious developments from the end of the 18th century to the present, the course examines challenges to older worldviews and images of human nature from new developments in science; tensions between traditional ways of life and new cultural norms; conflicting ideas of the role and proper liberty of the individual in changing societies; new critiques of how power and wealth are distributed, on both national and global levels; conversations among religions in a shrinking world; growing awareness of cultural relativism; and the emergence of international human rights.
​

Equally disconcerting is the school district's response. Closing all its schools in the county, as opposed, say, to just the one where the calligraphy assignment was given. Every school in the county? Talk about kneejerk reactions. Then again, perhaps the Augusta County Public School administrators decision was appropriate? Maybe the citizens there are really as dangerous as they feared? I have to believe that those administrators know the county and its residents' better than I do.

My understanding is that the beef went viral and the district was receiving hostile emails from across the country. Considering the Planned Parenthood shooting, et al, the administrators probably were more worried than usual about some nut case riding the wave and shooting up the place. That's my guess. I doubt if school would have closed if this had remained a community issue.

 

[320 Years of History]

In the other thread on this topic, someone wrote, "Ok I googled------I agree that using the SHAHADA statement to demonstrate CALLIGRAPHY-------was bad judgement------It is a statement of religious belief. It is so important to muslims that some might consider writing it out as CONVERSION."

The relevant consideration is not whether an existing Muslim considers that an individual who writes that word has converted, but rather whether the individual who writes it, merely by doing so, considers themselves as having converted.

If just writing that word is enough to effect such a sweeping change in a person, that's one powerful word. Who needs ordnance when they have a word like that?

 

[Arianrhod]

Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think.

That's what WorldNetDaily, Hannity, Rush, Drudge, Beck, and Breitbart are for...

 

[bodecea]

Very sad. Prayer in schools is banned, but not religious texts. There is a huge difference between practicing a religion and studying a religion. The purpose of the assignment was to demonstrate the value of tolerance. This lesson was included in the curriculum for that very reason. Instead, these children got a much more powerful lesson in intolerance. Neither the teacher nor the school district did anything improper, except overestimating the rationality of their community.

I was curious, so I looked up the statistics on this school. Good academic record. The students are mostly from economically stable households. There is virtually no diversity in the school. It's reasonable to infer that the parents of these students have a reasonable degree of education themselves. Yet they reacted in such a knee-jerk, thoughtless manner. Very sad, and rather scary.

Prayer in school is NOT banned. You've been misinformed.

 

[bodecea]

Very sad. Prayer in schools is banned, but not religious texts. There is a huge difference between practicing a religion and studying a religion. The purpose of the assignment was to demonstrate the value of tolerance. This lesson was included in the curriculum for that very reason. Instead, these children got a much more powerful lesson in intolerance. Neither the teacher nor the school district did anything improper, except overestimating the rationality of their community.

I was curious, so I looked up the statistics on this school. Good academic record. The students are mostly from economically stable households. There is virtually no diversity in the school. It's reasonable to infer that the parents of these students have a reasonable degree of education themselves. Yet they reacted in such a knee-jerk, thoughtless manner. Very sad, and rather scary.

Wrong.

Prayer in school is not 'banned,' students and teachers are at liberty to engage in religious expression in schools provided such expression is not done in an official context, where schools (government) seek to endorse or promote religious practice.

And religion may be referenced in schools provided such references pursue a secular purpose, the writing assignment being one such example.

Consequently nothing is 'sad' or 'scary,' save that of the ignorance of many concerning Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

I don't imagine I'm going to enjoy discussing this with you, but I will try nonetheless. Yes, students who fail to study for an exam and who send up silent prayers to all the gods in the Hindu pantheon will not be penalized. You can also have students and faculty who choose to pray in a school, together and separately.

What is banned, and has been since 1963, is school mandated prayer. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that religious texts cannot be studied in a public school. That is untrue. That is why this assignment was in the official school curriculum.

Therefore, the parents who objected to their little darlings being forced to read a tiny snippet of Islamic religious text did not have any constitutional grounds on which to stand. Therefore their objections are based entirely on bigotry and intolerance, which I find both sad and scary. That the official response to this disgusting display of intolerance is to remove this lesson in tolerance from their curriculum is ironic, sad and scary.

Which is a very good thing.

 

[HenryBHough]

Imagine.

If America's constitution had been writen in Arabic then the copy that formerly hung in The White House would never have been shredded and smoked!

Or if it had, the flagpole would have had a new, darker ball on top.

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't imagine I'm going to enjoy discussing this with you, but I will try nonetheless. Yes, students who fail to study for an exam and who send up silent prayers to all the gods in the Hindu pantheon will not be penalized. You can also have students and faculty who choose to pray in a school, together and separately.

What is banned, and has been since 1963, is school mandated prayer. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that religious texts cannot be studied in a public school. That is untrue. That is why this assignment was in the official school curriculum.

Therefore, the parents who objected to their little darlings being forced to read a tiny snippet of Islamic religious text did not have any constitutional grounds on which to stand. Therefore their objections are based entirely on bigotry and intolerance, which I find both sad and scary. That the official response to this disgusting display of intolerance is to remove this lesson in tolerance from their curriculum is ironic, sad and scary.

I'm not convinced that bigotry and intolerance are the basis for the parents' objects, but the rest of what you wrote I agree with.

 

[Iceweasel]

Is social engineering the function of public ed in your mind then? Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think. They should focus in reading, writing, math, science, not self esteem, acceptance of every lifestyle (except apparently conservativism) sexual morality,


U.S. Students Slide In Global Ranking On Math, Reading, Science
American 15-year-olds continue to turn in flat results in a test that measures students' proficiency in reading, math and science worldwide, failing to crack the global top 20.

The Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA, collects test results from 65 countries for its rankings, which come out every three years. The latest results, from 2012, show that U.S. students ranked below average in math among the world's most-developed countries. They were close to average in science and reading.

"In mathematics, 29 nations and other jurisdictions outperformed the United States by a statistically significant margin, up from 23 three years ago," reports Education Week. "In science, 22 education systems scored above the U.S. average, up from 18 in 2009."

In reading, 19 other locales scored higher than U.S. students — a jump from nine in 2009, when the last assessment was performed.

The top overall scores came from Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Macao and Japan, followed by Lichtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Estonia.

Do you think teaching tolerance is getting in the way of American students' proficiency? No. I'll tell you why American students have traditionally done worse than other countries: Americans do not value education as much as Japan and other countries. We are pragmatists--do-ers not thinkers. Too many parents see schools as the enemy and loudly announce "TEACHERS ARE AMONG THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE AROUND." That really teaches our kids to value their time in the classroom, doesn't it? Schools can do better, but it needs to start at home with respect for education. If you've got a beef with a teacher, have the discussion outside the kiddies' earshot.

Have your emotional breakdown elsewhere please. Tolerance for everything under the sun is stupid, dangerous and leads to poor life decision making. That isn't the business of the government to be preaching their moral values to the kids. America didn't value education traditionally? Where did you get that from? You're making excuses for the very expensive piss poor education system run into the ground by teacher unions. We spend a lot and get little. The whole system is corrupt. Districts are scattered all over to have a shitload of administrators and bureaucracy.
The children are just a tool for great paying jobs with excellent benefits, where performance is a non issue.

I said what I did because of personal experience. Many teachers are brick stupid. I've done a lot of work for school districts and have met them, instructions were nearly incoherent and spelled way worse than 'principle'. And it gets passed down, lots of kids are just housed and passed along to graduate with minimal reading and writing skills.

 

[baileyn45]

I don't imagine I'm going to enjoy discussing this with you, but I will try nonetheless. Yes, students who fail to study for an exam and who send up silent prayers to all the gods in the Hindu pantheon will not be penalized. You can also have students and faculty who choose to pray in a school, together and separately.

What is banned, and has been since 1963, is school mandated prayer. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that religious texts cannot be studied in a public school. That is untrue. That is why this assignment was in the official school curriculum.

Therefore, the parents who objected to their little darlings being forced to read a tiny snippet of Islamic religious text did not have any constitutional grounds on which to stand. Therefore their objections are based entirely on bigotry and intolerance, which I find both sad and scary. That the official response to this disgusting display of intolerance is to remove this lesson in tolerance from their curriculum is ironic, sad and scary.

I'm convinced that bigotry and intolerance are the basis for the parents' objects, but the rest of what you wrote I agree with.

Personally, if they were my children I be a bit peeved as well. Whether you or I like it or not somewhere in this world and most likely in this country as well, there ARE people that probably consider these children to have already converted. Now you and I can agree that is absolutely absurd but we are not talking about rational human beings. I know the response will be I'm being paranoid, but when it comes to my children don't think of me as paranoid, rather think of me as a wounded mother grizzly bear.

One in a million chance something could happen? With 1.5bil muslims on the planet that could mean there are 1500 idiots out there that may wish to enforce that conversion, make a name for themselves and get rewarded with 72 virgins. Unfortunately with the publicity this received the scary idea is even more plausible.

 

[Elvis Obama]

Very sad. Prayer in schools is banned, but not religious texts. There is a huge difference between practicing a religion and studying a religion. The purpose of the assignment was to demonstrate the value of tolerance. This lesson was included in the curriculum for that very reason. Instead, these children got a much more powerful lesson in intolerance. Neither the teacher nor the school district did anything improper, except overestimating the rationality of their community.

I was curious, so I looked up the statistics on this school. Good academic record. The students are mostly from economically stable households. There is virtually no diversity in the school. It's reasonable to infer that the parents of these students have a reasonable degree of education themselves. Yet they reacted in such a knee-jerk, thoughtless manner. Very sad, and rather scary.

Wrong.

Prayer in school is not 'banned,' students and teachers are at liberty to engage in religious expression in schools provided such expression is not done in an official context, where schools (government) seek to endorse or promote religious practice.

And religion may be referenced in schools provided such references pursue a secular purpose, the writing assignment being one such example.

Consequently nothing is 'sad' or 'scary,' save that of the ignorance of many concerning Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

I don't imagine I'm going to enjoy discussing this with you, but I will try nonetheless. Yes, students who fail to study for an exam and who send up silent prayers to all the gods in the Hindu pantheon will not be penalized. You can also have students and faculty who choose to pray in a school, together and separately.

What is banned, and has been since 1963, is school mandated prayer. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that religious texts cannot be studied in a public school. That is untrue. That is why this assignment was in the official school curriculum.

Therefore, the parents who objected to their little darlings being forced to read a tiny snippet of Islamic religious text did not have any constitutional grounds on which to stand. Therefore their objections are based entirely on bigotry and intolerance, which I find both sad and scary. That the official response to this disgusting display of intolerance is to remove this lesson in tolerance from their curriculum is ironic, sad and scary.

I think the teacher could have been more sensitive to the times; I think parents have a right to object to particular lessons or books they feel are inappropriate. Not every parent can afford to send their kids to private school if the public school doesn't represent their values. I don't think the school's ability to teach tolerance is going to be undermined by substituting a non-religious Arabic writing. Perhaps the school should rename the class "World Geography and Religions" so parents would have a heads up.

That being said, I agree that "There is a huge difference between practicing a religion and studying a religion. The purpose of the assignment was to demonstrate the value of tolerance. This lesson was included in the curriculum for that very reason. Instead, these children got a much more powerful lesson in intolerance..."
To me, that's really sad. I wonder how parents in that school district explained the closure to the young ones? Are those kids going to return to school looking over their shoulder for an outraged parent who will do Bad Things?

I can't agree that the teacher should have been sensitive to the times. Fomenting hatred is a detestable form of exploitation, and anyone who pushes back against it is performing an important public service. The teacher who assigned this lesson has been teaching for many years. One of the mothers of a current student said that she had been a student of this teacher in her high school days (and supported her fully). This particular lesson has been assigned at this school for several years. While taxpayers should have their opinions considered, where do you draw the line? People object to lessons on evolution. They object to the teaching of biology. They demand that revisionist history should be included in the curriculum. Education is designed to fight ignorance, not kowtow to it.

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't imagine I'm going to enjoy discussing this with you, but I will try nonetheless. Yes, students who fail to study for an exam and who send up silent prayers to all the gods in the Hindu pantheon will not be penalized. You can also have students and faculty who choose to pray in a school, together and separately.

What is banned, and has been since 1963, is school mandated prayer. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that religious texts cannot be studied in a public school. That is untrue. That is why this assignment was in the official school curriculum.

Therefore, the parents who objected to their little darlings being forced to read a tiny snippet of Islamic religious text did not have any constitutional grounds on which to stand. Therefore their objections are based entirely on bigotry and intolerance, which I find both sad and scary. That the official response to this disgusting display of intolerance is to remove this lesson in tolerance from their curriculum is ironic, sad and scary.

I'm convinced that bigotry and intolerance are the basis for the parents' objects, but the rest of what you wrote I agree with.

Personally, if they were my children I be a bit peeved as well. Whether you or I like it or not somewhere in this world and most likely in this country as well, there ARE people that probably consider these children to have already converted. Now you and I can agree that is absolutely absurd but we are not talking about rational human beings. I know the response will be I'm being paranoid, but when it comes to my children don't think of me as paranoid, rather think of me as a wounded mother grizzly bear.

One in a million chance something could happen? With 1.5bil muslims on the planet that could mean there are 1500 idiots out there that may wish to enforce that conversion, make a name for themselves and get rewarded with 72 virgins. Unfortunately with the publicity this received the scary idea is even more plausible.

FWIW, reading your remarks, I discovered I made an omission typo in the post of mine to which you replied. Just letting you know in case it alters what you thought of my comment.

 

[bodecea]

Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think. .

BINGO!!!!!!!!!

Yeah...schools shouldn't be putting information into children's heads.

 

[Arianrhod]

Schools should be teaching kids how to think, not what to think.

That's what WorldNetDaily, Hannity, Rush, Drudge, Beck, and Breitbart are for...

What's your dumb opinion have to do with public ed? And why are you trolling the CDZ with your shit?

Which of the sources I mentioned is a member of USMB?