Use of force, including deadly force.

[SavannahMann]

I saw this video, and decided it was a good topic of discussion. So first the video.



Now let’s break it down. Those of you who reflexively argue the Homeowner should have shot the dolt stealing from the car. You are wrong. The homeowner would face murder charges.

However, depending on the laws of your State, you might be able to use necessary force to detain someone for Police. In Georgia I can not. Usually such use of force must be accompanied by the phrase. You are under arrest. I didn’t hear that. But I won’t ding the homeowner.

When would deadly force, such as firing a shot be allowed, again generally speaking?

In this incident, when the accomplice tried to run the man over. That would be assault with a deadly weapon, the car. A situation where your life is in danger is the only time when deadly force is authorized by law.

I give the homeowner credit for brains. He didn’t try and set off in pursuit, as his use of force, so far within the law, would end if he was pursuing the baddies beyond the immediate area. Instead our wise individual takes a picture of the license plate.

The driver of the car shouldn’t be hard to identify by the cops. They’ll find him and arrest him for felony assault with a deadly weapon. They’ll get him to talk and identify his accomplice.

In my opinion what this fellow did was easily defensible in a court of law. I doubt any DA would charge him with that video as evidence.

What do you think?

 

[JoeB131]

I think risking your life over a car is stupid. This man could have easily been killed.

 

[Hellokitty]

I think risking your life over a car is stupid. This man could have easily been killed.

It's really sad how so many people don't get how backwards this saying is.

 

[SavannahMann]

It's really sad how so many people don't get how backwards this saying is.

I understand the sentiment. After a fire, while the Family is outside, and realizing they’re all alive. Nobody was killed. After a short while, they’ll console themselves that they only lost stuff. Nobody died. Life is afterall the most important thing.

The same is true of the post accident mentality. At first, shock and terror. Then as people realize everyone is OK, if with minor injuries. Those injuries, while annoying, are not life threatening. It’s an accident. Nobody was hurt.

Losing a loved one is a pain that far surpasses the pain of losing stuff.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Now let’s break it down. Those of you who reflexively argue the Homeowner should have shot the dolt stealing from the car. You are wrong. The homeowner would face murder charges.

Incorrect. Its specifically in the Texas statute, if someone is trying to steal a car at night, lethal force may be used against them.
You really need to know the jurisdiction of your actual state.

When would deadly force, such as firing a shot be allowed, again generally speaking?

Firing a shot is Hollywood and opens liability. If you are going to use your firearm, use your firearm.

 

[Darkwind]

Is anyone familiar with the phrase "If you permit bad behavior, you get more of it" and its related concept?

It is so much more than just a 'car'. There is a deep principle of not allowing chaos to win over your life.

Is there any thought or consideration at all that as crime in this nation escalates, it does so simply because of this attitude of, "It's not worth risking your life over."

And finally, when those who would NOT risk their lives for the theft of a car, or any other property occur, then a real society can emerge.

 

[JoeB131]

Is anyone familiar with the phrase "If you permit bad behavior, you get more of it" and its related concept?

It is so much more than just a 'car'. There is a deep principle of not allowing chaos to win over your life.

Is there any thought or consideration at all that as crime in this nation escalates, it does so simply because of this attitude of, "It's not worth risking your life over."

And finally, when those who would NOT risk their lives for the theft of a car, or any other property, then a real society can emerge.

Well, that would make sense if we actually addressed the underlying roots of crime - Poverty, Racism, Mental Illness, addiction, and gun proliferation. The Europeans and Japanese either address these problems or don't have them as a factor, and they have nowhere near our crime rates.

 

[Darkwind]

Well, that would make sense if we actually addressed the underlying roots of crime - Poverty, Racism, Mental Illness, addiction, and gun proliferation. The Europeans and Japanese either address these problems or don't have them as a factor, and they have nowhere near our crime rates.

That is a deflection from the notion that one should not use lethal force to protect what is theirs.

There is no gun proliferation. It is a nonsensical concept.

Poverty, Mental Illness and addiction have been addressed by this nation for over 80 years. How is that working out for you?

Racism has nothing to do with theft of property other than some brainwashing that because I'm a certain color, I should be allowed to steal other people's property. How can such a mentality even be fomented in a first-world country unless it is being fomented intentionally?

 

[SavannahMann]

Incorrect. Its specifically in the Texas statute, if someone is trying to steal a car at night, lethal force may be used against them.
You really need to know the jurisdiction of your actual state.


Firing a shot is Hollywood and opens liability. If you are going to use your firearm, use your firearm.

By firing a shot I meant, and obviously wasn’t clear in that intention, to indicate firing at the driver who was trying to run him down.

You say that Texas would permit you shooting someone who is trying to steal the car. Ok. Does that include auto burglary? In Georgia, neither of those would be justification. If you were not in a situation the reasonable person would believe was life threatening, in Georgia, you would be on your way to Jail.

Learning the laws is important.

 

[JoeB131]

That is a deflection from the notion that one should not use lethal force to protect what it's theirs.

Again, it's a fucking car.
I'm on my fifth car. I don't particularly miss any of the previous four bad enough to where I'd kill someone over them. I'd have to live with that the rest of my life.

There is no gun proliferation. It is a nonsensical concept.

So all those school shootings are just figments of our imagination?

Poverty, Mental Illness and addiction have been addressed by this nation for over 80 years. How is that working out for you?

Well, no, they haven't, that's the problem. That's why you have to dance around homeless people sleeping on heating grates and using the sidewalk as a bathroom.

Racism has nothing to do with theft of property other than some brainwashing that because I'm a certain color, I should be allowed to steal other people's property. How can such a mentality even be fomented in a first-world country unless it is being fomented intentionally?

Check your privilege. It's easy to be moral if you went to sleep last night with a full belly in a warm bed.

 

[Darkwind]

Again, it's a fucking car.
I'm on my fifth car. I don't particularly miss any of the previous four bad enough to where I'd kill someone over them. I'd have to live with that the rest of my life.


So all those school shootings are just figments of our imagination?




Well, no, they haven't, that's the problem. That's why you have to dance around homeless people sleeping on heating grates and using the sidewalk as a bathroom.



Check your privilege. It's easy to be moral if you went to sleep last night with a full belly in a warm bed.

A car is property and is not available to anyone who decided they wish to use it. I realize the concept may be too deep for you to grasp, but if people fear being killed for taking someones property, they'll think twice or maybe even not do it at all. Self preservation is a pretty powerful motivator. As to the laughable phrase, "Its just a car". Todays costs of a car just in a purchase runs in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Then there is the loss of income if the person who owned the car cannot make it to their job and loses their income, again, more 10's of thousands of dollars. No, it is NOT just a car.

All those school shootings did not happen because of a nonsensical notion of gun proliferation. They occur because we are raising immoral children or brainwashing people into thinking they have no hope. Just watch the news if you don't believe Me.

They haven't addressed the problem correctly, is what you meant to say, I'm sure.

Check your own privilege. I'm not impressed by people who parrot Marxist talking points.

 

[JoeB131]

A car is property and is not available to anyone who decided they wish to use it. I realize the concept may be too deep for you to grasp, but if people fear being killed for taking someones property, they'll think twice or maybe even not do it at all. Self preservation is a pretty powerful motivator. As to the laughable phrase, "Its just a car". Todays costs of a car just in a purchase runs in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Then there is the loss of income if the person who owned the car cannot make it to their job and loses their income, again, more 10's of thousands of dollars. No, it is NOT just a car.

50% of stolen cars are recovered by police. The rest are covered by insurance. Still not worth risking your life over. Cars can be replaced. Your life cannot.

If someone is willing to risk jail to steal a car, a gun isn't going to be much of a deterrent, especially if they can get a gun of their own.

All those school shootings did not happen because of a nonsensical notion of gun proliferation. They occur because we are raising immoral children or brainwashing people into thinking they have no hope. Just watch the news if you don't believe Me.

Nope. We have school shootings because we let people buy military grade weapons, and most of the school shootings aren't done by "kids", they are done by adults like Adam Lanza and Nicholas Cruz.

They haven't addressed the problem correctly, is what you meant to say, I'm sure.

Nope, I said what I said. I'm sorry you were too stupid to get the point.

Check your own privilege. I'm not impressed by people who parrot Marxist talking points.

I freely admit I have privilege. I think we need to make sure everyone enjoys it.

 

[Darkwind]

50% of stolen cars are recovered by police. The rest are covered by insurance. Still not worth risking your life over. Cars can be replaced. Your life cannot.

If someone is willing to risk jail to steal a car, a gun isn't going to be much of a deterrent, especially if they can get a gun of their own.



Nope. We have school shootings because we let people buy military grade weapons, and most of the school shootings aren't done by "kids", they are done by adults like Adam Lanza and Nicholas Cruz.


Nope, I said what I said. I'm sorry you were too stupid to get the point.


I freely admit I have privilege. I think we need to make sure everyone enjoys it.

I agree. Don't risk your life by stealing someone's car. The moral thing to do is give a warning, and then, if they don't heed you, kill them.

We do NOT have school shootings based on the type of weapon used. That is a 3rd grade mentality. We have school shooting because we don't teach people to be responsible adults.

You did say what you said, and it shows your lack of cognitive skills.

Way to go! You can now delcare yourself a self-hater. I'm so proud of you.

 

[JoeB131]

We do NOT have school shootings based on the type of weapon used. That is a 3rd grade mentality. We have school shooting because we don't teach people to be responsible adults.

Nope, we have a problem because people with mental illnesses like Lanza can't get help, but they can get military grade weapons.

Let's try to make it easy for people to get mental health treatment, but hard for them to get guns.

You did say what you said, and it shows your lack of cognitive skills.

My cognitive skills are just fine. You need to catch the short bus.

 

[Auld Phart]

Nope, we have a problem because people with mental illnesses like Lanza can't get help, but they can get military grade weapons.

Let's try to make it easy for people to get mental health treatment, but hard for them to get guns.


My cognitive skills are just fine. You need to catch the short bus.

mental illnesses like Lanza can't get help, but they can get military grade weapons.

Lanza passed a background check to get the firearm he used?

is it any wonder I laugh at almost every post you make?

 

[JoeB131]

Lanza passed a background check to get the firearm he used?

No, his mother did and she was as crazy as he was.

 

[Auld Phart]

No, his mother did and she was as crazy as he was.

she was?

you a psychiatrist now?

try using better examples for your fantasies.
and 'military grade'?

you know better than that.

 

[Hellokitty]

I understand the sentiment. After a fire, while the Family is outside, and realizing they’re all alive. Nobody was killed. After a short while, they’ll console themselves that they only lost stuff. Nobody died. Life is afterall the most important thing.

The same is true of the post accident mentality. At first, shock and terror. Then as people realize everyone is OK, if with minor injuries. Those injuries, while annoying, are not life threatening. It’s an accident. Nobody was hurt.

Losing a loved one is a pain that far surpasses the pain of losing stuff.

The saying is backwards. Should read
Risking your life to steal is stupid, you could end up dead.

 

[JoeB131]

she was?

you a psychiatrist now?

try using better examples for your fantasies.
and 'military grade'?

you know better than that.

An AR-15 is identical to the M16 I carried in the army (except it doesn't fire full auto unless modified.) The weapon was specifically designed dor military use.

Nancy Lanza was a prepper crazy who had enough guns to fight off the Zombie Apocolypse.

 

[Zincwarrior]

By firing a shot I meant, and obviously wasn’t clear in that intention, to indicate firing at the driver who was trying to run him down.

When dealing with vehicles its better to get out of the way. If you are in the vehicle its better to also drive away.

You say that Texas would permit you shooting someone who is trying to steal the car. Ok. Does that include auto burglary?

Yes thats literally what I meant. To be clear, if someone is attempting to steal your car at night you may use lethal force.

In Georgia, neither of those would be justification. If you were not in a situation the reasonable person would believe was life threatening, in Georgia, you would be on your way to Jail.

Georgia has MTG and is wrong. We are clearly more civilized here. It probably goes back to when it was a horse, not a car, and in Texas stealing someone's horse could be a life or death impact on the owner in many parts of the state. I think originally stealing horses was also punishable by hanging. Oh wait...I was right, it was!

The Last Posse

After thieves stole his daughter’s horse, deputy U.S. marshal Parnell McNamara didn’t make a federal case out of it. Instead, he rounded up a group of old-style lawmen and lit out after them.

www.texasmonthly.com

Learning the laws is important.

Exactly.