US GDP rises 5.7%, but corporations aren't hiring

[rdean]

Well, the GDP rose by 5.7% which is a continuation of a trend of rising GDP, so the stimulus and other economic policies appear to be helping a bit:

U.S. GDP grows at 5.7% rate in fourth quarter - latimes.com

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

But unemployment continues to be dismal.

What's the reason? US Companies keep sending their jobs overseas, to save money, thanks to reliance on market self-governance.

So the corporations reap record profits, Wall Street continues to climb, and US citizens continue to have no jobs.

So what's the solution? Obama believes it's giving tax breaks to companies that keep their jobs in the US. I say that's a good start.

Anyone have any other good ideas to keep jobs here?

The reason the GDP is up is because companies are restocking inventories that they allowed to fall because of the recession.

As was pointed out in another post, hiring is a lagging indicator of an improving economy.

Another indicator is the Dow Jones, which reached an all time high in 2000, a high of 11,500. The last 52 weeks (that's one year) has see it climb from 6,500 (approx) ---> 10,500 (approx.), the highest since 2003 (if it's hard to believe, do a search on "Dow Jones" because I've already posted this at least 6 times).

 

[Big Fitz]

Well, the GDP rose by 5.7% which is a continuation of a trend of rising GDP, so the stimulus and other economic policies appear to be helping a bit:

U.S. GDP grows at 5.7% rate in fourth quarter - latimes.com

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

But unemployment continues to be dismal.

What's the reason? US Companies keep sending their jobs overseas, to save money, thanks to reliance on market self-governance.

So the corporations reap record profits, Wall Street continues to climb, and US citizens continue to have no jobs.

So what's the solution? Obama believes it's giving tax breaks to companies that keep their jobs in the US. I say that's a good start.

Anyone have any other good ideas to keep jobs here?

Yep. One very good idea.

Drop corporate taxes and regulation to reasonable levels.

The US is currently the second highest taxed and regulated economy in the world for business. It's unprofitable to do business here thanks to all the social and environmental regulations and flaming hoops they have to jump through to do business here for manufacturing or now even technology work.

Libs forget that now in a global economy, capital and labor is mobile and will ALWAYS flow to the cheapest place to do business that will satisfy their needs as a business. We are no longer able to defend ourselves with two oceans to keep labor.

That is how you get business back. End a lot of regulations and find ways to be less of an impact on corporate profits.

Of course there is one OTHER thing I'd love to do to nations that artificially support their industries: Inverse Subsidy Tariffs. If a nation is subsidizing their business 20% of their costs as to steal our industry, then we should hit those same companies with a 20% tariff aimed directly at reducing our deficit, and cannot be diverted or used to allow more spending elsewhere. This would then put their prices at market normal levels as compared to non-subsidized companies, inspiring them to either move back home to the US or enjoy the privilege of helping our nation fight an economic war. Sorta like non-union members being forced to pay dues, while getting none of the benefits of being in the union.

 

[uscitizen]

We are an instant gratification society.

so we still haven't learned our lesson?

I have seen very little or no evidence that we have learned much from what got us into this mess.

 

[Big Fitz]

Those in POWER have not learned their lesson. They're still playing hot potato. The rest of us are saying "KNOCK IT OFF!"

Of course, they're not listening because someone's going to have to get burned and they sure as hell don't want to be the ones. This is, IMHO, one of the many reasons so many dems are fleeing and not running for re-election.

 

[beowolfe]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

 

[uscitizen]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

His optimism or pessimism depends on which party is in power.

 

[Skull Pilot]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

better to be a pessimist and be pleased if outcomes are better than you thought

And besides a glass half full is still only half a glass it doesn't matter how you spin it.

 

[rightwinger]

I just borrowed $100,000 from the bank. Now I am $100,000 richer!! My net worth went up, right?

We borrowed $800 billion for stimulus spending. From that GDP increased 7.9% or $1.2 Trillion. Meanwhile, the stock market increased from 6600 to 10300 or a 56% improvement which added another $5 Trillion in gain.

Yes, my friend, our net worth DID go up

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

That's more than double the 2.2% growth rate in the third quarter and a dramatic turnaround from the first three months of last year, when the economy was mired in deep recession and the GDP shrank at a 6.4% annual rate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just borrowed $100,000 from the bank. Now I am $100,000 richer!! My net worth went up, right?

We borrowed $800 billion for stimulus spending. From that GDP increased 7.9% or $1.2 Trillion. Meanwhile, the stock market increased from 6600 to 10300 or a 56% improvement which added another $5 Trillion in gain.

Yes, my friend, our net worth DID go up

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

That's more than double the 2.2% growth rate in the third quarter and a dramatic turnaround from the first three months of last year, when the economy was mired in deep recession and the GDP shrank at a 6.4% annual rate.

you forgot to factor in interest so we're still at a negative.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well, the GDP rose by 5.7% which is a continuation of a trend of rising GDP, so the stimulus and other economic policies appear to be helping a bit:

U.S. GDP grows at 5.7% rate in fourth quarter - latimes.com

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

But unemployment continues to be dismal.

What's the reason? US Companies keep sending their jobs overseas, to save money, thanks to reliance on market self-governance.

So the corporations reap record profits, Wall Street continues to climb, and US citizens continue to have no jobs.

So what's the solution? Obama believes it's giving tax breaks to companies that keep their jobs in the US. I say that's a good start.

Anyone have any other good ideas to keep jobs here?

The reason the GDP is up is because companies are restocking inventories that they allowed to fall because of the recession.

As was pointed out in another post, hiring is a lagging indicator of an improving economy.

Another indicator is the Dow Jones, which reached an all time high in 2000, a high of 11,500. The last 52 weeks (that's one year) has see it climb from 6,500 (approx) ---> 10,500 (approx.), the highest since 2003 (if it's hard to believe, do a search on "Dow Jones" because I've already posted this at least 6 times).

Oct 09 07
Rises 120.80 to close at 14,164.53, first close above 14,100 - All time closing high
The DJIA has risen 6,878.26, or 94%, since the low point of Oct 9, 2002, 5 years ago

 

[beowolfe]

Well, the GDP rose by 5.7% which is a continuation of a trend of rising GDP, so the stimulus and other economic policies appear to be helping a bit:

U.S. GDP grows at 5.7% rate in fourth quarter - latimes.com

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

But unemployment continues to be dismal.

What's the reason? US Companies keep sending their jobs overseas, to save money, thanks to reliance on market self-governance.

So the corporations reap record profits, Wall Street continues to climb, and US citizens continue to have no jobs.

So what's the solution? Obama believes it's giving tax breaks to companies that keep their jobs in the US. I say that's a good start.

Anyone have any other good ideas to keep jobs here?

Yep. One very good idea.

Drop corporate taxes and regulation to reasonable levels.

The US is currently the second highest taxed and regulated economy in the world for business. It's unprofitable to do business here thanks to all the social and environmental regulations and flaming hoops they have to jump through to do business here for manufacturing or now even technology work.

Libs forget that now in a global economy, capital and labor is mobile and will ALWAYS flow to the cheapest place to do business that will satisfy their needs as a business. We are no longer able to defend ourselves with two oceans to keep labor.

That is how you get business back. End a lot of regulations and find ways to be less of an impact on corporate profits.

Of course there is one OTHER thing I'd love to do to nations that artificially support their industries: Inverse Subsidy Tariffs. If a nation is subsidizing their business 20% of their costs as to steal our industry, then we should hit those same companies with a 20% tariff aimed directly at reducing our deficit, and cannot be diverted or used to allow more spending elsewhere. This would then put their prices at market normal levels as compared to non-subsidized companies, inspiring them to either move back home to the US or enjoy the privilege of helping our nation fight an economic war. Sorta like non-union members being forced to pay dues, while getting none of the benefits of being in the union.

So, are you suggesting that in the areas of social and environmental policy that we all engage in a 'race to the bottm' in order for the US to become the most attractive place to do business? Wouldn't it be better to try and bring the rest of the world up in those areas rather than bring the US down to where they are?

Besides, I take issue with your premise. I don't believe the US is nearly as high tax as Europe and I'm reasonable sure that Europe has generally outpaced us in terms of environmental regulations. The difference is that a lot of European companies seem to 'get it' more when it comes to the environment that a lot ofs US companies.

That said, I admit that I'm making a generality because it seems no one has access to accurate data on pollution.

 

[SFC Ollie]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

better to be a pessimist and be pleased if outcomes are better than you thought

And besides a glass half full is still only half a glass it doesn't matter how you spin it.

Actually you've simply got the wrong size glass.

 

[Zander]

I just borrowed $100,000 from the bank. Now I am $100,000 richer!! My net worth went up, right?

We borrowed $800 billion for stimulus spending. From that GDP increased 7.9% or $1.2 Trillion. Meanwhile, the stock market increased from 6600 to 10300 or a 56% improvement which added another $5 Trillion in gain.

Yes, my friend, our net worth DID go up

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

That's more than double the 2.2% growth rate in the third quarter and a dramatic turnaround from the first three months of last year, when the economy was mired in deep recession and the GDP shrank at a 6.4% annual rate.

Your lack of economic intelligence is staggering. The stock market is not the economy. Government spending is not economic growth. Our day of economic reckoning is coming soon and no amount of "stimulus" will prevent it. Sorry, but those are the facts. It doesn't matter which party is in power either.......

 

[beowolfe]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

His optimism or pessimism depends on which party is in power.

Heck, I was an optimist even when Dubya was attacking the wrong country. I knew he'd be out of the picture in 2004 or 2008.

 

[beowolfe]

I just borrowed $100,000 from the bank. Now I am $100,000 richer!! My net worth went up, right?

We borrowed $800 billion for stimulus spending. From that GDP increased 7.9% or $1.2 Trillion. Meanwhile, the stock market increased from 6600 to 10300 or a 56% improvement which added another $5 Trillion in gain.

Yes, my friend, our net worth DID go up

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

That's more than double the 2.2% growth rate in the third quarter and a dramatic turnaround from the first three months of last year, when the economy was mired in deep recession and the GDP shrank at a 6.4% annual rate.

Your lack of economic intelligence is staggering. The stock market is not the economy. Government spending is not economic growth. Our day of economic reckoning is coming soon and no amount of "stimulus" will prevent it. Sorry, but those are the facts. It doesn't matter which party is in power either.......

I'm afraid the you may be correct. But I also think we can manage the landing so that it is something other than an all out crash.

 

[beowolfe]

"We" didn't recoup anything.

Gubmint throwing money around produces nothing that it didn't first expropriate from somewhere else....That's nothing more than spinning your wheels.

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

better to be a pessimist and be pleased if outcomes are better than you thought

And besides a glass half full is still only half a glass it doesn't matter how you spin it.

Well, if that's what you want to be. I'd rather be an optimist. It makes it a lot easier to get up in the mornings.

 

[rightwinger]

I just borrowed $100,000 from the bank. Now I am $100,000 richer!! My net worth went up, right?

We borrowed $800 billion for stimulus spending. From that GDP increased 7.9% or $1.2 Trillion. Meanwhile, the stock market increased from 6600 to 10300 or a 56% improvement which added another $5 Trillion in gain.

Yes, my friend, our net worth DID go up

The nation's total production of goods and services expanded at a heady 5.7% annual rate in the final three months of last year, the Commerce Department said Friday in its first estimate of the quarter's gross domestic product.

That's more than double the 2.2% growth rate in the third quarter and a dramatic turnaround from the first three months of last year, when the economy was mired in deep recession and the GDP shrank at a 6.4% annual rate.

Your lack of economic intelligence is staggering. The stock market is not the economy. Government spending is not economic growth. Our day of economic reckoning is coming soon and no amount of "stimulus" will prevent it. Sorry, but those are the facts. It doesn't matter which party is in power either.......

I'm afraid it is my friend

The economy is comprised of trillions of economic transactions. GDP is an indicator of the economy, so is the stock market.

A rising tide lifts all boats (thanks JFK) that $800 Billion influx of cash resulted in over $6 trillion in economic growth.

 

[Big Fitz]

So, are you suggesting that in the areas of social and environmental policy that we all engage in a 'race to the bottm' in order for the US to become the most attractive place to do business? Wouldn't it be better to try and bring the rest of the world up in those areas rather than bring the US down to where they are?

The economic well being of the rest of the world is not our responsibility. It is that of those people's governments to raise their standard of living, or for the people to replace them till they can live a better standard of life. We have no responsibility to make it easier for them to do so on the backs of our children.

And yes, over-regulation, like the EPA's ever increasingly stringent rules and regulations with no cost/benefit analysis required on their part has killed industry in our nation. When's the last time you have heard of a new Steel Mill being built here? Why is that? As someone who's worked for an Iron Foundry before I can flat out tell you there are 3 main reasons why costs to do here are prohibitively high.

1. Pollution regulation. The EPA, with the radical environazis are intent on stopping any manufacturing like this from occuring in this nation again. The amount of lawsuits to stop nuclear power plants, coal power plants, any waste disposal dumps and everything else is insanely high in this nation because of religious zeal of the greens in their anti-human quest, and a good healthy dose of NIMBY.

2. Unions. Union costs are crippling the auto industry with legacy costs, and they're trying to force their way into every aspect of manufacturing and other foundational industries. Why deal with these assholes when you can go to China, India, Taiwan, Vietnam and get workers who will not strike or demand insane wages for essentially non-skilled labor? I'm for the basic protection of abuse by management from labor. I am NOT for them strangling every industry they get in bed with because they want to live the life of millionaires while working as janitors. See the pay scale for a GM custodian if you don't believe me.

3. Punitive taxation. P-BO and his ilk have a crazy notion that all profit is bad. Probably because they've never had to make one to survive before. They've no real world business experience, and therefore seem to have it in their silly little noggins that the University system is how all business should be. So, when they hear about Exxon profiting, they assume they must be stealing. They ignore that profit is reinvested or spread across a billion plus shares making the earnings from them a pittance if anything because they have to struggle to survive as well. On the other hand, they ignore the profit percentage of Hedge Funds which almost skim 80% off the top for their profit, instead of big oil's paltry 10%. Why would you bother to risk your business here when you can go over seas, not risk double taxation and a government who won't punish you for being successful?

These are reasons why business is fleeing this nation. If you want links, be your own research monkey. I know it's out there, I've seen it before.

 

[uscitizen]

An American pessimist. WOW!! You're a rare find indeed!!

better to be a pessimist and be pleased if outcomes are better than you thought

And besides a glass half full is still only half a glass it doesn't matter how you spin it.

Actually you've simply got the wrong size glass.

Yes we will need smaller glasses in the future.

 

[beowolfe]

So, are you suggesting that in the areas of social and environmental policy that we all engage in a 'race to the bottm' in order for the US to become the most attractive place to do business? Wouldn't it be better to try and bring the rest of the world up in those areas rather than bring the US down to where they are?

The economic well being of the rest of the world is not our responsibility. It is that of those people's governments to raise their standard of living, or for the people to replace them till they can live a better standard of life. We have no responsibility to make it easier for them to do so on the backs of our children.

And yes, over-regulation, like the EPA's ever increasingly stringent rules and regulations with no cost/benefit analysis required on their part has killed industry in our nation. When's the last time you have heard of a new Steel Mill being built here? Why is that? As someone who's worked for an Iron Foundry before I can flat out tell you there are 3 main reasons why costs to do here are prohibitively high.

1. Pollution regulation. The EPA, with the radical environazis are intent on stopping any manufacturing like this from occuring in this nation again. The amount of lawsuits to stop nuclear power plants, coal power plants, any waste disposal dumps and everything else is insanely high in this nation because of religious zeal of the greens in their anti-human quest, and a good healthy dose of NIMBY.

2. Unions. Union costs are crippling the auto industry with legacy costs, and they're trying to force their way into every aspect of manufacturing and other foundational industries. Why deal with these assholes when you can go to China, India, Taiwan, Vietnam and get workers who will not strike or demand insane wages for essentially non-skilled labor? I'm for the basic protection of abuse by management from labor. I am NOT for them strangling every industry they get in bed with because they want to live the life of millionaires while working as janitors. See the pay scale for a GM custodian if you don't believe me.

3. Punitive taxation. P-BO and his ilk have a crazy notion that all profit is bad. Probably because they've never had to make one to survive before. They've no real world business experience, and therefore seem to have it in their silly little noggins that the University system is how all business should be. So, when they hear about Exxon profiting, they assume they must be stealing. They ignore that profit is reinvested or spread across a billion plus shares making the earnings from them a pittance if anything because they have to struggle to survive as well. On the other hand, they ignore the profit percentage of Hedge Funds which almost skim 80% off the top for their profit, instead of big oil's paltry 10%. Why would you bother to risk your business here when you can go over seas, not risk double taxation and a government who won't punish you for being successful?

These are reasons why business is fleeing this nation. If you want links, be your own research monkey. I know it's out there, I've seen it before.

See, I disagree with you. I look back and I don't see companies fleeing the US until we began signing 'free trade' agreements. The constituion provided for the use of tariff's in order to protect American businesses. Once that system was gotten rid of in favor of 'free trade' rather than 'fair trade', that's when jobs began fleeing the country. We have had unions throughout our most productive periods. As a matter of fact, prosperity in the US didn't spread to the masses until the advent of unions. But just like the federal government, economic theory requires management to have a spine when it comes to unions. If unions run all over management, it's not the union's fault, it's management.