US authorities should keep their hands from my bank data !

[JakeStarkey]

No, your false analogy does not work, KK. Slavery is immoral per se. Taxation is not. You cannot prove that it is. You can believe that it is, but who cares about that. Governments run on taxation. If you don't like, then get involved instead of crying.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No, your false analogy does not work, KK. Slavery is immoral per se. Taxation is not. You cannot prove that it is. You can believe that it is, but who cares about that. Governments run on taxation. If you don't like, then get involved instead of crying.

You can't prove that it isn't, which your responses in this thread show. Your argument was that the social compact and the Constitution make it so that taxation was not immoral, but if that were true then slavery would also not have been immoral until the 13th Amendment was adopted. Essentially all you can say is that you don't think taxation is immoral, with no logical reason given. Which is fine. I, however, have been able to describe exactly why taxation is immoral, and why it is nothing more than theft.

If you don't like it, then come up with a valid reason that can't be picked apart instead of crying and resorting to attacks.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kevin, your analogy is false on the face of it. Your reptitive nonsense of stating that is not does not wash. Taxation is not immoral, per se or by your false analogy. That does not wash.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin, your analogy is false on the face of it. Your reptitive nonsense of stating that is not does not wash. Taxation is not immoral, per se or by your false analogy. That does not wash.

Sticking with the "Nuh uh" argument then?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sticking with "if that is all you have, Kevin, you have not proved anything." Your analogy is false. Your stating otherwise does not change it. You could make an argument that the Constitution was defective concerning slavery, and I would agree with that. But to suggest that taxation is inherently immoral, well, you better go read the Founding Fathers on the subject.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Sticking with "if that is all you have, Kevin, you have not proved anything." Your analogy is false. Your stating otherwise does not change it. You could make an argument that the Constitution was defective concerning slavery, and I would agree with that. But to suggest that taxation is inherently immoral, well, you better go read the Founding Fathers on the subject.

Uh huh.

 

[JakeStarkey]

KK, you have not proven your point. I will leave it and the field to you. Have a good Merry Christmas and a happy holiday.

 

[Toronado3800]

Kevin, I think we're going to disagree but I'll ask. Why do you believe taxation is immoral? Is it partially because folks are "born into" their country more often than not?

I believe: I've agreed to live in this representative democracy where we indirectly vote these taxes into place. Now I can't argue I am upset when I find out we spend tax money to try to kill Castro or give aid to some nut balls just because they're fighting the Soviets. Doesn't make the taxes immoral in the first place though because I in effect signed up for it.

Slavery is a good point, and one that has thankfully been corrected. What makes taxes equal to this?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin, I think we're going to disagree but I'll ask. Why do you believe taxation is immoral? Is it partially because folks are "born into" their country more often than not?

I believe: I've agreed to live in this representative democracy where we indirectly vote these taxes into place. Now I can't argue I am upset when I find out we spend tax money to try to kill Castro or give aid to some nut balls just because they're fighting the Soviets. Doesn't make the taxes immoral in the first place though because I in effect signed up for it.

Slavery is a good point, and one that has thankfully been corrected. What makes taxes equal to this?

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

 

[Dr Grump]

Welcome to the New World Order, German Guy.

Since living in the UK, I can't beleive the number of times I have heard Brits say 'if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem'. They may not see the problem, but I guess they are so used to their government telling them what do to that they are quickly losing the ability to think for themselves.

I'm hoping to live in Germnay in a couple of years time.... It's an interesting country I think.... I just wish Europeans generally were a little less accepting of their governments trampling over their citizens.

If this post don't beat all..

...look at the US political system - hardly the leading light at getting people to think for themselves (check out all the posts on here over the past few years bitching at both the left and right and how their rights are continually being trampled on..

 

[Toronado3800]

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

But they also reserve the right to arrest me eventually if I burn tires in my yard or just drop my waste in the middle of the street because everyone has decided its been for the common good. Its a power we've given OUR elected officials.

Would you suggest we run the country off import tariffs and the like? But those are still taxes, just on folks who can't vote for or against them.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

But they also reserve the right to arrest me eventually if I burn tires in my yard or just drop my waste in the middle of the street because everyone has decided its been for the common good. Its a power we've given OUR elected officials.

Would you suggest we run the country off import tariffs and the like? But those are still taxes, just on folks who can't vote for or against them.

Those affect other people, nobody else is affected by you not paying your taxes.

No. I recognize that some level of taxation is necessary for government to perform its legitimate duties. That doesn't change the nature of taxation, however.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do you lie in real life too?
Your exact words were "de facto illegal." Illegal means people can get charged and punished for doing something. Obviously no one is getting charged and punished with abortion in MS. And the low incidence of abortion in MS can be attributed to lots of things, starting with the unwillingness fo the religious population there to kill little babies.

I've asked you before and will do so again now? Are you really this dumb or is it a cute little game?

Translation: I have been caught in an obvious lie but cannot admit it and lose all credibility. Therefore I will sling ad hominems and hope no one notices.

So go on about how abortions are "de facto illegal" in many states.

 

[Toronado3800]

Kevin thanks for replying when you knew I would just disagree.

I agree the government has an obligation to spend tax money responsibly and tax equally responsibly.

 

[The Rabbi]

Kevin, I think we're going to disagree but I'll ask. Why do you believe taxation is immoral? Is it partially because folks are "born into" their country more often than not?

I believe: I've agreed to live in this representative democracy where we indirectly vote these taxes into place. Now I can't argue I am upset when I find out we spend tax money to try to kill Castro or give aid to some nut balls just because they're fighting the Soviets. Doesn't make the taxes immoral in the first place though because I in effect signed up for it.

Slavery is a good point, and one that has thankfully been corrected. What makes taxes equal to this?

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

I smell the stench of libertarianism.
If you hold that way about taxes, then you also hold like that about any law, since government can enforce it at the point of a gun. Too many unpaid parking tickets? The law will be looking for you.
Yes, the gov't gets special treatment. When gov't does something it is fundamentally different from a private person doing it.
So go ahead and suggest that all laws are fundamentally immoral since they ultimately rely on force.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin, I think we're going to disagree but I'll ask. Why do you believe taxation is immoral? Is it partially because folks are "born into" their country more often than not?

I believe: I've agreed to live in this representative democracy where we indirectly vote these taxes into place. Now I can't argue I am upset when I find out we spend tax money to try to kill Castro or give aid to some nut balls just because they're fighting the Soviets. Doesn't make the taxes immoral in the first place though because I in effect signed up for it.

Slavery is a good point, and one that has thankfully been corrected. What makes taxes equal to this?

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

I smell the stench of libertarianism.
If you hold that way about taxes, then you also hold like that about any law, since government can enforce it at the point of a gun. Too many unpaid parking tickets? The law will be looking for you.
Yes, the gov't gets special treatment. When gov't does something it is fundamentally different from a private person doing it.
So go ahead and suggest that all laws are fundamentally immoral since they ultimately rely on force.

I'd say your understanding of libertarianism is limited if you think that we believe all laws are fundamentally immoral.

 

[The Rabbi]

Taxes are immoral because the government uses force to collect their taxes. They reserve the right to imprison you if you don't pay your taxes, and reserve the right to kill you if you fight for your freedom. If another person did this we'd call it theft and convict them of a crime, but since it's the government they get special treatment.

I smell the stench of libertarianism.
If you hold that way about taxes, then you also hold like that about any law, since government can enforce it at the point of a gun. Too many unpaid parking tickets? The law will be looking for you.
Yes, the gov't gets special treatment. When gov't does something it is fundamentally different from a private person doing it.
So go ahead and suggest that all laws are fundamentally immoral since they ultimately rely on force.

I'd say your understanding of libertarianism is limited if you think that we believe all laws are fundamentally immoral.

I didnt say I believed that.
But go ahead and tell me why non-tax laws are not coercive in exactly the same way tax laws are.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I smell the stench of libertarianism.
If you hold that way about taxes, then you also hold like that about any law, since government can enforce it at the point of a gun. Too many unpaid parking tickets? The law will be looking for you.
Yes, the gov't gets special treatment. When gov't does something it is fundamentally different from a private person doing it.
So go ahead and suggest that all laws are fundamentally immoral since they ultimately rely on force.

I'd say your understanding of libertarianism is limited if you think that we believe all laws are fundamentally immoral.

I didnt say I believed that.
But go ahead and tell me why non-tax laws are not coercive in exactly the same way tax laws are.

No.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'd say your understanding of libertarianism is limited if you think that we believe all laws are fundamentally immoral.

I didnt say I believed that.
But go ahead and tell me why non-tax laws are not coercive in exactly the same way tax laws are.

No.

So you either are refusing to debate a central point in your thesis or are admitting you believe that all laws are coercive, which they are, and therefore immoral, which they aren't.
Which is it?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I didnt say I believed that.
But go ahead and tell me why non-tax laws are not coercive in exactly the same way tax laws are.

No.

So you either are refusing to debate a central point in your thesis or are admitting you believe that all laws are coercive, which they are, and therefore immoral, which they aren't.
Which is it?

I am refusing to be told what to do by you. You made a false point regarding what I believe and then demanded that I explain myself. Why should I?