UN: Israel committed "Complete Massacre" and "the worst ever" in Gaza

[rylah]

The big difference is that Israeli lobbies extort $ Trillions for decades of Zionist genocide but nothing for Gaza's native residents.

America's welfare state commits genocide with America's criminal complicity.

Why not gazillions?

The main importer from Gaza is....the Jewish state.

 

[rylah]

I don't pretend to be a geneticist or a nuclear engineer so, you can easily find some answers, yourself with a little time.

I already explained why Israel's genotoxic weaponry is especially heinous and criminal in that it kills and sickens unborn/ future generations for generations.

Please think before attempting to defend the indefensible.

Thanks,

How is that compared to cutting a pregnant woman's womb,

to kill her unborn child before her eyes?

Maybe Hamas shills want that kind of
war for "proportionality"... of course.

 

[Shusha]

Who has no need to consider a Palestinian military? The Palestinians have as much a right to be able to defend themselves as does Israel, that's totally legal and non violent.

In a world without violence, there would be no need for militaries at all. Everything would be solved legally and non-violently. That is the context we are discussing. We are making an assumption, for the sake of a very specific discussion, that there will be no violence. Thus, this is all merely a distraction from the discussion at hand.

Gaza and the West Bank is where Palestinians "live". They are a single people ...

Gaza and the West Bank are independently governed. They could have, and under the conditions of this discussion, they will have full autonomy, self-determination, and sovereignty to remain independent of one another or to form a unified state. None of this has anything to do with solving the conflict with Israel, which is the subject of this conversation.

So your idea of a peace treaty begins by stipulating non-negotiable conditions that include: no military or armed forces,

In the world we are discussing, a violence-free world, no one will have need of a military or armed forces. Stop with this distraction.

no Israeli concessions on its activities in the West Bank (this creating an ongoing stream of refugees into Gaza)

Not at all. I am saying that the peace treaty made between Gaza and Israel can be made independently of the peace treaty made between the West Bank and Israel. There are different concerns with each territory, and with each people. No need to predicate peace with Gaza on peace with the West Bank. The issues in Gaza, once we remove the context of violence, are FAR easier to solve than those of the West Bank. Gaza can be a leader showing the way.

no airport in Gaza

You are making assumptions. Gaza can have as many airports as they wish to build.

That's not really equitable, the people have a fundamental right to be free, not live in enclaves.

Yes. This is what I am proposing. A sovereign, autonomous, fully-independent state for Gaza.

Gaza has offshore oil reserves, do you think the Israelis are not aware of those? do you think they are willing to let Gaza use those to build its economy? Go and read about Palestinian oil, its eye opening.

Gaza's natural resources would be under Gaza's sovereign control in accordance with international law and voluntary development agreements.

You are introducing problems which are not present in my argument.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well yes, Hamas is a political party and rules Gaza, what are you trying to say?

I'm saying that you support and believe terrorists.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't pretend to be a geneticist or a nuclear engineer so, you can easily find some answers, yourself with a little time.

I already explained why Israel's genotoxic weaponry is especially heinous and criminal in that it kills and sickens unborn/ future generations for generations.

Please think before attempting to defend the indefensible.

Thanks,

I already explained why Israel's genotoxic weaponry is

You made a silly claim. It was funny.

in that it kills and sickens unborn/ future generations for generations.

Hilarious. And false.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

In a world without violence, there would be no need for militaries at all. Everything would be solved legally and non-violently. That is the context we are discussing. We are making an assumption, for the sake of a very specific discussion, that there will be no violence. Thus, this is all merely a distraction from the discussion at hand.

Very well, in that case do you think Israel should agree - as part of this treaty - to disband and shutdown its armed forces? do you think they'd agree to that? You see any treaty must be equitable, it should not advantage one party to the detriment of the other.

Gaza and the West Bank are independently governed.

As a direct result of Israel's policy of thwarting Arab self determination.

They could have, and under the conditions of this discussion, they will have full autonomy, self-determination, and sovereignty to remain independent of one another or to form a unified state. None of this has anything to do with solving the conflict with Israel, which is the subject of this conversation.

In the world we are discussing, a violence-free world, no one will have need of a military or armed forces. Stop with this distraction.

As I just said then, Israel must disband its military and destroy its weapons, else the treaty is not equitable.

Not at all. I am saying that the peace treaty made between Gaza and Israel can be made independently of the peace treaty made between the West Bank and Israel. There are different concerns with each territory, and with each people. No need to predicate peace with Gaza on peace with the West Bank. The issues in Gaza, once we remove the context of violence, are FAR easier to solve than those of the West Bank. Gaza can be a leader showing the way.

That's a fine suggestion but it must be put to the people, they must be given a right, without coercion or threats, to decide that for themselves. The division into two political entities or a single entity with two isolated territorial regions is for those people to decide not for Israel to impose upon them.

You are making assumptions. Gaza can have as many airports as they wish to build.

But that isn't true, they had one but the Israelis destroyed it not because of violence emanating from Gaza but because of violence in the West Bank. No country has a legal right to destroy another countries airports. In your hypothetical Gaza treaty violence in the West Bank could see a new airport in Gaza destroyed.

Yes. This is what I am proposing. A sovereign, autonomous, fully-independent state for Gaza.

Gaza's natural resources would be under Gaza's sovereign control in accordance with international law and voluntary development agreements.

You are introducing problems which are not present in my argument.

Tell me, what concessions do you foresee Israel making here? If the people of Gaza are asked "do you want to keep getting bombed or will you sign this treaty accept all conditions and we'll stop" is that not terrorism? It is the violent subjugation of another people, that's what Israel is doing and has always done.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'm saying that you support and believe terrorists.

Very well, so do you.

 

[Shusha]

As I just said then, Israel must disband its military and destroy its weapons, else the treaty is not equitable.

Sigh. Every nation in the world makes a treaty to solve conflicts through legal, non-violent means. And it works this time. Every country in the world disbands its military. Happy?

That's a fine suggestion but it must be put to the people, they must be given a right, without coercion or threats, to decide that for themselves. The division into two political entities or a single entity with two isolated territorial regions is for those people to decide not for Israel to impose upon them.

Yes, I've already agreed to this and state so.

Tell me, what concessions do you foresee Israel making here?

Specifically with reference to Gaza, what concessions do you believe Israel needs to make in order for there to be an enduring peace with prosperity for everyone?

If the people of Gaza are asked "do you want to keep getting bombed or will you sign this treaty accept all conditions and we'll stop" is that not terrorism?

This is not what we are asking the people of Gaza. The conversation assumes a legal and non-violent solution to the problem. The people of Gaza are being asked, "Do you want sovereign self-determining independence as a State?"

It is the violent subjugation of another people, that's what Israel is doing and has always done.

Your eagerness to paint Israel (Jews) as evil completely blinds you to even the suggestion of peace, as evidenced in this attempt at a discussion.

 

[Grau]

I already explained why Israel's genotoxic weaponry is

You made a silly claim. It was funny.

in that it kills and sickens unborn/ future generations for generations.

Hilarious. And false.

That's the most pathetic excuse for a "rebuttal" I've seen since your last Fact-Free fumble

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sigh. Every nation in the world makes a treaty to solve conflicts through legal, non-violent means. And it works this time. Every country in the world disbands its military. Happy?

Yes, I've already agreed to this and state so.

Specifically with reference to Gaza, what concessions do you believe Israel needs to make in order for there to be an enduring peace with prosperity for everyone?

I suggest you ask a Gazan Palestinian, they are best placed to answer a hypothetical question like that, I suppose we could begin by listing key resolutions that impact Gaza but the right to free movement between Gaza and the West Bank would be high on that list as would the demolition of the wall that hems Gaza in, the unrestricted ability to allow outside access to Gaza without any intervention by Israel too.

The right of all refugees in Gaza to return to their former homes irrespective of any current occupation by anyone else. Cease the blockade Israel imposed in 2007 and comply with UN resolutions that pertain to that.

Allow the free movement of goods and services from Israel to Gaza, and the outside world to Gaza.

Israel should cease and remove all current restrictions on travel to/from Gaza, today visitors to Gaza must seek permission from Israel.

This is not what we are asking the people of Gaza. The conversation assumes a legal and non-violent solution to the problem. The people of Gaza are being asked, "Do you want sovereign self-determining independence as a State?"

Well there is no "we're asking the people of Gaza" it is you who is asking, you're asking a hypothetical question and I'm doing my best to answer honestly. My remarks are intended to convey that it is unacceptable for Israel to begin a negotiation like this under the threat of violence and in the real world of Israel and Gaza that threat is very tangible where collective punishment has been meted out many times to the population. I'm saying that there should be no expectation of violence from Israel.

Your eagerness to paint Israel (Jews) as evil completely blinds you to even the suggestion of peace, as evidenced in this attempt at a discussion.

If you were using this hypothetical situation to show that no matter what Israel does, violence from Palestinians in Gaza is inevitable, that the situation for people in Gaza since 2007 is wholly attributable to the actions of Palestinians and that Israel is only protecting itself and bears no culpability for the plight of those in Gaza (even before Oct 7) then it'll be easier if you just come out and say that.

My views on Israeli conduct are the results of extensive formal and informal research from an initial position of complete ignorance.

 

[Grau]

Very well, so do you.

Have you also noticed that Netanyahu's shills for the Gaza genocide pretend that there were no Levantine conflicts until 7 October 2023?

On that date, Hamas was virtually invited(1) to rampage through part of Israel and do on 7 October what IDF does at least once a week in Gaza and the West Bank.

It's as if they know nothing about the Nazi trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs who committed the Nakba.

Are they also clueless to the fact that at least 4 leaders put in office by Israeli voters were mass murdering terrorist who would have been justifiably hung by the British.

And now that Netanyahu is executing the most deadly and ruthless foreign funded genocide in history, Zionist shills are kvetching about what Hamas was allowed to do in one day by a handful of Netanyahu's miscreants who didn't mind sacrificing about 1,200 lives for an excuse to destroy Gaza, exterminate / expel its people and dole out even more Palestinian land to murderous and greedy "Settlers". (2)

After all, this would not be the first time that Zionists were willing to sacrifice the lives of other Jews for their "Greater Israel".

Thanks,





(1) "New York Times report says Israel knew about Hamas attack over a year in advance"

New York Times report says Israel knew about Hamas attack over a year in advance

The New York Times is reporting Israel knew about Hamas attack plans over a year before the Oct. 7 operation, but dismissed them as “aspirational."

apnews.com

EXCERPT "The attack was planned in plain sight. A month before the assault, Hamas posted a video to social media showing fighters using explosives to blast through a replica of the border gate, sweep in on pickup trucks and then move building by building through a full-scale reconstruction of an Israeli town, firing automatic weapons at human-silhouetted paper targets.

In the video, the militants destroyed mock-ups of the wall’s concrete towers and a communications antenna, just as they would do for real on Oct. 7.

Adding to public outrage over the military’s apparent negligence, the Israeli media has reported that military officials dismissed warnings from female border spotters who warned that they were witnessing Hamas’ preparations for the attack. According to the media reports, the young women reported seeing Hamas drones and attempts to knock out Israeli border cameras in the months leading up to the attack." CONTINUED






"Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront"

Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront

They see an opportunity to push for a return of Jewish settlements to the Palestinian territory.

www.bbc.com

EXCEPTS "Opinion polls suggest that most Israelis oppose resettling Gaza, and it is not government policy, but since the Hamas attacks on 7 October it is being talked about out loud - by some of the loudest and most extreme voices in Israel's government.

I put it to her that her comments sound like a plan for ethnic cleansing. She does not deny it.

You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel. " CONTINUED

 

[Shusha]

...the right to free movement between Gaza and the West Bank would be high on that list

Within the framework of international law as it pertains to all other countries, what would this look like? Examples: Americans are free to travel between Washington State and Alaska, but there is no legal obligation for Canada to provide access through its sovereign territory. Europeans and non-citizens are free to travel within the EU without border controls. Or do you intend that Israel (or other countries) cede territory for this purpose?

as would the demolition of the wall that hems Gaza in,

Borders are both legal and normal between nations. Why would this be different between Gaza and Israel?

the unrestricted ability to allow outside access to Gaza without any intervention by Israel too.

Of course. Same as any other sovereign country.

The right of all refugees in Gaza to return to their former homes irrespective of any current occupation by anyone else.

Do you mean the refugees or the refugees and all of their descendants? The latter would be practically impossible. Would apply the same conditions to the Jewish people? All the refugees and all of their descendants?

Cease the blockade Israel imposed in 2007 and comply with UN resolutions that pertain to that.

Of course. No violence, no blockade.

Allow the free movement of goods and services from Israel to Gaza, and the outside world to Gaza.

Of course. Same as any other sovereign country.

Israel should cease and remove all current restrictions on travel to/from Gaza, today visitors to Gaza must seek permission from Israel.

Certainly. Same as any other country.

If you were using this hypothetical situation to show that no matter what Israel does, violence from Palestinians in Gaza is inevitable,

I am using this hypothetical to demonstrate how ridiculously easy it is to solve this conflict.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's the most pathetic excuse for a "rebuttal" I've seen since your last Fact-Free fumble

Tell me more about these fake weapons that kill future generations.
Palestinian propaganda is always such fact-free nonsense.

 

[Grau]

Tell me more about these fake weapons that kill future generations.
Palestinian propaganda is always such fact-free nonsense.

The links I posted earlier prove that you are not being honest.

Read and learn.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The links I posted earlier prove that you are not being honest.

Read and learn.

You mean the one where the chemical used as a food preservative is
going to kill unlimited future generations of Arab squatters?

 

[Grau]

You mean the one where the chemical used as a food preservative is
going to kill unlimited future generations of Arab squatters?

I hope you are just pretending to be this obtuse.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I hope you are just pretending to be this obtuse.

From your post #688.

(3). "US AND ISRAEL TARGETING DNA IN GAZA? THE DIME BOMB: YET ANOTHER GENOTOXIC WEAPON"​

US and Israel targeting DNA in Gaza? The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon | International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal

EXCERPT " Scientific studies have found that HMTA is chemically toxic, damages the immune system, rapidly causes cancer, and attacks DNA (genotoxic).[4-11] It is unfortunate that the US media have virtually blacked out the story of Israel’s new weapon," CONTINUED

UN: Israel committed "Complete Massacre" and "the worst ever" in Gaza

US media: “Israel” has dropped 29,000 bombs on the Gaza Strip since the start of the war, and about half of the raids were inaccurate and endangered the lives of civilians.

www.usmessageboard.com

Hexamethylenetetramine or hexamine is also used as a food additive as a preservative (INS number 239). It is approved for usage for this purpose in the EU,[13] where it is listed under E number E239, however it is not approved in the USA, Russia, Australia, or New Zealand.[14]

Hexamethylenetetramine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sorry, moron, the EU typically doesn't approve genotoxic substances to preserve their food. But you keep reading your stupid Pally sources, it's funny.

Maybe post a story about Israel spiking Pally chewing gum with birth control? DURR

 

[Grau]

From your post #688.

(3). "US AND ISRAEL TARGETING DNA IN GAZA? THE DIME BOMB: YET ANOTHER GENOTOXIC WEAPON"​

US and Israel targeting DNA in Gaza? The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon | International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal

EXCERPT " Scientific studies have found that HMTA is chemically toxic, damages the immune system, rapidly causes cancer, and attacks DNA (genotoxic).[4-11] It is unfortunate that the US media have virtually blacked out the story of Israel’s new weapon," CONTINUED

UN: Israel committed "Complete Massacre" and "the worst ever" in Gaza

US media: “Israel” has dropped 29,000 bombs on the Gaza Strip since the start of the war, and about half of the raids were inaccurate and endangered the lives of civilians.

www.usmessageboard.com

Hexamethylenetetramine or hexamine is also used as a food additive as a preservative (INS number 239). It is approved for usage for this purpose in the EU,[13] where it is listed under E number E239, however it is not approved in the USA, Russia, Australia, or New Zealand.[14]

Hexamethylenetetramine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sorry, moron, the EU typically doesn't approve genotoxic substances to preserve their food. But you keep reading your stupid Pally sources, it's funny.

Maybe post a story about Israel spiking Pally chewing gum with birth control? DURR

Hey, dummy,

HMTA stands for Heavy Metal Tungsten Alloy, not hexamine.

"Heavy Metal Tungsten Alloy (HMTA). Scientific studies have found that HMTA is chemically toxic, damages the immune system, rapidly causes cancer, and attacks DNA (genotoxic)"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Scientific studies have found that HMTA is chemically toxic, damages the immune system, rapidly causes cancer, and attacks DNA (genotoxic)"

Which studies? Real studies, or Palestinian studies?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Have you also noticed that Netanyahu's shills for the Gaza genocide pretend that there were no Levantine conflicts until 7 October 2023?

On that date, Hamas was virtually invited(1) to rampage through part of Israel and do on 7 October what IDF does at least once a week in Gaza and the West Bank.

It's as if they know nothing about the Nazi trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs who committed the Nakba.

Are they also clueless to the fact that at least 4 leaders put in office by Israeli voters were mass murdering terrorist who would have been justifiably hung by the British.

And now that Netanyahu is executing the most deadly and ruthless foreign funded genocide in history, Zionist shills are kvetching about what Hamas was allowed to do in one day by a handful of Netanyahu's miscreants who didn't mind sacrificing about 1,200 lives for an excuse to destroy Gaza, exterminate / expel its people and dole out even more Palestinian land to murderous and greedy "Settlers". (2)

After all, this would not be the first time that Zionists were willing to sacrifice the lives of other Jews for their "Greater Israel".

Thanks,





(1) "New York Times report says Israel knew about Hamas attack over a year in advance"

New York Times report says Israel knew about Hamas attack over a year in advance

The New York Times is reporting Israel knew about Hamas attack plans over a year before the Oct. 7 operation, but dismissed them as “aspirational."

apnews.com

EXCERPT "The attack was planned in plain sight. A month before the assault, Hamas posted a video to social media showing fighters using explosives to blast through a replica of the border gate, sweep in on pickup trucks and then move building by building through a full-scale reconstruction of an Israeli town, firing automatic weapons at human-silhouetted paper targets.

In the video, the militants destroyed mock-ups of the wall’s concrete towers and a communications antenna, just as they would do for real on Oct. 7.

Adding to public outrage over the military’s apparent negligence, the Israeli media has reported that military officials dismissed warnings from female border spotters who warned that they were witnessing Hamas’ preparations for the attack. According to the media reports, the young women reported seeing Hamas drones and attempts to knock out Israeli border cameras in the months leading up to the attack." CONTINUED






"Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront"

Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront

They see an opportunity to push for a return of Jewish settlements to the Palestinian territory.

www.bbc.com

EXCEPTS "Opinion polls suggest that most Israelis oppose resettling Gaza, and it is not government policy, but since the Hamas attacks on 7 October it is being talked about out loud - by some of the loudest and most extreme voices in Israel's government.

I put it to her that her comments sound like a plan for ethnic cleansing. She does not deny it.

You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel. " CONTINUED

Yes, I have looked into these claims and there is a great deal of correlation here. The Zionist regime is well known for this kind of subversion, its easily researched but the Zionist lobby actively suppresses these stories and suppresses open discussion of them.