Ukrainian Government Doesn't Have Its Act Together On Peace Negotiations!

[JimofPennsylvan]

The Ukrainian government seems to have some imprudent expectations about the negotiations to end the war with Russia. The media has reported that the Ukrainian government is looking for an arrangement where select European countries and other countries in the Free World will be guarantors of Ukrainian sovereign territorial integrity and make such commitment by treaty or agreement. That is not possible because what the Ukrainian government is talking about practically is countries committing to fight the Superpower Russia if it invades Ukraine again and the only countries militarily strong enough to take on that obligation where the Ukrainian people could have confidence in their security are countries like the U.S., the United Kingdom and France and they are legally and morally unable to take on that commitment; because they are already in a NATO commitment which places an obligation on all NATO members that an attack against one is an attack against all (the Article 5 commitment) so they cannot take on that Ukrainian security obligation because it involves going to war with Russia which practically means NATO going to war with Russia and their being a President without a conscience in the Kremlin means a high risk of nuclear war so it isn't possible! The harsh reality is that Ukraine is going to have to provide for its own security from a foreign invasion but that is not as ominous as it sounds; what the Ukrainian government should be looking for in its negotiations is to remedy the colossal problem that they currently have and also had prior to this war with Russia which is an alarming shortage of weapons. The Ukrainians should have had about ten warehouses each with an abundance of cruise missiles so that upon a Russian invasion the Ukrainian government could have done to Russia exactly what the Putin government is doing to Ukraine bombing with cruise missiles major cities consider if Russian cities like Moscow, St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg had their high-rises and major government buildings that it will take decades to rebuild destroyed by cruise missiles, Putin would have turned tail with his invasion force so fast it would have amazed the world. The Ukrainians should have had triple the number of tanks they have today numbers like seventy-five hundred; every counter attacking Ukrainian infantry unit should be accompanied with an Ukrainian tank unit many of them having to go up against Russian tank units with just anti-tank rockets what a disgrace for the Free World to allow this to happen! The Ukrainians should have enough combat planes so the Ukrainian air forces is flying hundreds of sorties a day to protect their soil not like a dozen sorties per day if their lucky.

It is completely legitimate such a request in pursuing a peace deal to end this war and really Ukraine should prevail in getting major countries in the Free World to commit to selling the Ukrainians the weapons they need to defend their country. The standard that should be agreed to is that Ukraine gets to buy any weapon system that the vast majority of NATO countries are permitted to buy, absent of course identifying signature technology and communication technology that if NATO's enemies got their hands on could affect NATO's ability to identify allies on the battlefield and communicate with them.

The other thing that the Ukrainian government is erring in this negotiation process is they are offering Ukraine to be a neutral country, whiich is the absolute right offer, but the process they offer is that Russia must first remove all their troops from Ukraine then the Ukrainians will hold a national referendum to see if the Ukrainian people will agree to this condition. Are you kidding me Ukrainian government, do you live in a fantasy world, you are treating Vladimir Putin like he is a simpleton is this actually your negotiation strategy? Stop the ultra stupidity the Russian government isn't going to agree to pull out its troops until it has an absolutely firm, irreversible deal in place. Ukrainian government you are facing an existential crisis here with this war your existence as a country is at stake here, holding national referendums to work out the deal is not an option - the Ukrainian President and the Ukrainian Parliament you are fully empowered make the peace deal or peace treaty and changing the Ukrainian constitution how ever you see fit. This is the process that the Ukrainian people have to end this war and operate as a country for all eternity; the Ukrainian President in consultation with the Ukrainian Parliament will negotiate a peace treaty with Russia and change the Ukrainian constitution however they see fit and then once the Ukrainian President has finalized the treaty agreement the Ukrainian parliament will ratify the Treaty and at the same time pass a law amending the Ukrainian constitution to conform with the Treaty - and if Ukraine exist for ten thousand years the reformed Ukrainian constitution will be the lawful Ukrainian constitution. Now all Ukrainian Judges if they want to continue to serve as Ukrainian judges will have to make an oath to uphold the current Ukrainian constitution the constitution reformed by the treaty and further make that oath in writing. And so as to try to avoid later division in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government shortly after the war has ended will hold a declaratory referendum approving the reformed constitution, if the referendum fails no matter the reformed constitution is still in effect but if it passes then the Ukrainian people can rest easy that there will be no political unrest over whether the old constitution or the reformed constitution is the law of the land in Ukraine!

Lastly, the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people have to continually hold at least a fair amount of skepticism over the negotiation process, when all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil then they should have full confidence in the peace process this should be their view point. Because it is obvious that Valdimir Putin doesn't give a damn about insuring the credibility of the Russian negotiating team, if he doesn't care about their credibility why should the Ukrainian government or Ukrainian people attach any credibility to them? Let's examine the negotiating team's track record: the Russian negotiating team says they are making progress in the negotiations and the Kremlin says no progress is being made; the negotiating team says Russian forces are pulling back from their offensive on Kyiv and the world sees Russian forces up their bombing on the cities and town that make up Greater Kyiv! Any competent assessment on how Russia works knows that the way it works is all critical power rests with Vladimir Putin, nothing is final until Vladimir Putin says it is final, and even then because Vladimir Putin is a majorly untrustworthy person Russia can renege on any deal!

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

*Enters topic*

*eyes bleed*

 

[Rigby5]

All Zelensky had to do in order to prevent this war was anyone of the following:

Not break off negotiations
Not steal Russian oil
Not murder ethnic Russians
Not violate treaties
Not try to join NATO

It seems incredible that Zelensky would have violated all these simple, moral, and obvious things?
And yet he did.
So it really appears to be totally and completely deliberate?

 

[badbob85037]

The Ukrainian government seems to have some imprudent expectations about the negotiations to end the war with Russia. The media has reported that the Ukrainian government is looking for an arrangement where select European countries and other countries in the Free World will be guarantors of Ukrainian sovereign territorial integrity and make such commitment by treaty or agreement. That is not possible because what the Ukrainian government is talking about practically is countries committing to fight the Superpower Russia if it invades Ukraine again and the only countries militarily strong enough to take on that obligation where the Ukrainian people could have confidence in their security are countries like the U.S., the United Kingdom and France and they are legally and morally unable to take on that commitment; because they are already in a NATO commitment which places an obligation on all NATO members that an attack against one is an attack against all (the Article 5 commitment) so they cannot take on that Ukrainian security obligation because it involves going to war with Russia which practically means NATO going to war with Russia and their being a President without a conscience in the Kremlin means a high risk of nuclear war so it isn't possible! The harsh reality is that Ukraine is going to have to provide for its own security from a foreign invasion but that is not as ominous as it sounds; what the Ukrainian government should be looking for in its negotiations is to remedy the colossal problem that they currently have and also had prior to this war with Russia which is an alarming shortage of weapons. The Ukrainians should have had about ten warehouses each with an abundance of cruise missiles so that upon a Russian invasion the Ukrainian government could have done to Russia exactly what the Putin government is doing to Ukraine bombing with cruise missiles major cities consider if Russian cities like Moscow, St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg had their high-rises and major government buildings that it will take decades to rebuild destroyed by cruise missiles, Putin would have turned tail with his invasion force so fast it would have amazed the world. The Ukrainians should have had triple the number of tanks they have today numbers like seventy-five hundred; every counter attacking Ukrainian infantry unit should be accompanied with an Ukrainian tank unit many of them having to go up against Russian tank units with just anti-tank rockets what a disgrace for the Free World to allow this to happen! The Ukrainians should have enough combat planes so the Ukrainian air forces is flying hundreds of sorties a day to protect their soil not like a dozen sorties per day if their lucky.

It is completely legitimate such a request in pursuing a peace deal to end this war and really Ukraine should prevail in getting major countries in the Free World to commit to selling the Ukrainians the weapons they need to defend their country. The standard that should be agreed to is that Ukraine gets to buy any weapon system that the vast majority of NATO countries are permitted to buy, absent of course identifying signature technology and communication technology that if NATO's enemies got their hands on could affect NATO's ability to identify allies on the battlefield and communicate with them.

The other thing that the Ukrainian government is erring in this negotiation process is they are offering Ukraine to be a neutral country, whiich is the absolute right offer, but the process they offer is that Russia must first remove all their troops from Ukraine then the Ukrainians will hold a national referendum to see if the Ukrainian people will agree to this condition. Are you kidding me Ukrainian government, do you live in a fantasy world, you are treating Vladimir Putin like he is a simpleton is this actually your negotiation strategy? Stop the ultra stupidity the Russian government isn't going to agree to pull out its troops until it has an absolutely firm, irreversible deal in place. Ukrainian government you are facing an existential crisis here with this war your existence as a country is at stake here, holding national referendums to work out the deal is not an option - the Ukrainian President and the Ukrainian Parliament you are fully empowered make the peace deal or peace treaty and changing the Ukrainian constitution how ever you see fit. This is the process that the Ukrainian people have to end this war and operate as a country for all eternity; the Ukrainian President in consultation with the Ukrainian Parliament will negotiate a peace treaty with Russia and change the Ukrainian constitution however they see fit and then once the Ukrainian President has finalized the treaty agreement the Ukrainian parliament will ratify the Treaty and at the same time pass a law amending the Ukrainian constitution to conform with the Treaty - and if Ukraine exist for ten thousand years the reformed Ukrainian constitution will be the lawful Ukrainian constitution. Now all Ukrainian Judges if they want to continue to serve as Ukrainian judges will have to make an oath to uphold the current Ukrainian constitution the constitution reformed by the treaty and further make that oath in writing. And so as to try to avoid later division in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government shortly after the war has ended will hold a declaratory referendum approving the reformed constitution, if the referendum fails no matter the reformed constitution is still in effect but if it passes then the Ukrainian people can rest easy that there will be no political unrest over whether the old constitution or the reformed constitution is the law of the land in Ukraine!

Lastly, the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people have to continually hold at least a fair amount of skepticism over the negotiation process, when all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil then they should have full confidence in the peace process this should be their view point. Because it is obvious that Valdimir Putin doesn't give a damn about insuring the credibility of the Russian negotiating team, if he doesn't care about their credibility why should the Ukrainian government or Ukrainian people attach any credibility to them? Let's examine the negotiating team's track record: the Russian negotiating team says they are making progress in the negotiations and the Kremlin says no progress is being made; the negotiating team says Russian forces are pulling back from their offensive on Kyiv and the world sees Russian forces up their bombing on the cities and town that make up Greater Kyiv! Any competent assessment on how Russia works knows that the way it works is all critical power rests with Vladimir Putin, nothing is final until Vladimir Putin says it is final, and even then because Vladimir Putin is a majorly untrustworthy person Russia can renege on any deal!

Ya think they might want the land back the Russians took over? and that is just the start. There is the price Russia owes from their artilleries damage to homes alone totaling billions.

 

[Rigby5]

Ya think they might want the land back the Russians took over? and that is just the start. There is the price Russia owes from their artilleries damage to homes alone totaling billions.

Wrong.
Russia only took over areas populated by ethnic Russians who hate Kyiv and Kyiv has been trying to murder them.
In no way will they go back to Kyiv murdering them.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Wrong.
Russia only took over areas populated by ethnic Russians who hate Kyiv and Kyiv has been trying to murder them.
In no way will they go back to Kyiv murdering them.

Putin's self-serving claims about the conflict in Donbass have not been substantiated by other Jounalists in the area and the world is full of people who identify as Russian but don't want to live under Putin's government, so nothing in your post legitimizes the invasion or Russia holding on to the land it now controls. This is just another example of the same Russian imperialism we saw under the Czars and the Communists and now under Russia's current fascist leadership.