U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[George Costanza]

How about THESE founders words


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Agreed the governemt cannot dictate any certain religion. It does not say that the government cannot engage in religious activity.

Would that include prayer in public schools?

 

[DiamondDave]

Man, you must of been so happy that DiamondDave said that so you can follow him on that one.

Well... got anything besides the winger site?

Thought not..

Exactly why there is a "Just Plain Stupid Shit By Stupid People" subforum

Let's just supose the source IS accurate. What would you have to say then?

No reason to believe any winger source as accurate...

If a legit source accurately reports on all aspects of the issue, and it is shown that an NCO or CO violated UCMJ rules about religious accommodation... then you follow the guidelines of UCMJ for punishment, reprimand, courts marshal, etc.. report on the facts of the case or situation at hand, not taking an activist stance

 

[Smartt33]

Talk To Action | U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:

"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

"Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend. At that point the implied message was clear in my mind 'we gave you a choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us. Since you chose to disappoint us you will now have your freedoms suspended and contact chores while the rest of your buddies are enjoying a concert.'

"At that evening, nine of us chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression."

In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.

So, thoughts USMB?

Please reveal the resource.

 

[DiamondDave]

How about THESE founders words


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Agreed the governemt cannot dictate any certain religion. It does not say that the government cannot engage in religious activity.

Would that include prayer in public schools?

Funny.. do not see public schools forcing a specific religion's prayers.... rather trying to allow for prayer or contemplation etc.... and when a prayer is offered in a huddle or something, I do not see anything of school policy that forces a student to do it

 

[Smartt33]

do you really think Fox would report this?

The question is, who did report it? Any answers?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

How about THESE founders words


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Agreed the governemt cannot dictate any certain religion. It does not say that the government cannot engage in religious activity.

Would that include prayer in public schools?

There is no law forcing prayer in School and as for as I know there never has been.

 

[xotoxi]

Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site

I'm sure that you pointed out that Pale's Obama-mama porn was from a winger site as well.

 

[Gadawg73]

The very folks that claim Obama's birth certificate is a forgery and Tail Gunner Joe was a hero want more evidence in this.
How about we DEMAND more evidence in EVERY allegation?

 

[DiamondDave]

Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site

I'm sure that you pointed out that Pale's Obama-mama porn was from a winger site as well.

Don't recall the thread... but I do point our winger sources from both sides.. hell, it's why I have KMAN on permanent ignore, with his continual use of winger sites as 'proof'

 

[Smartt33]

Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site

Well, i can't speak to the article, though it does seem consistent with this article from army.mil news

apparently major gen. chambers, a born again christian, thinks you're only ethically fit for duty if you have religion shoved down your throat on a regular basis.

and they're spending our money on this because?

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers

These two stories are nowhere alike. This one seems quite reasonable. No soldier was required or even compelled to go. The concerts were just offered to anyone who wanted.

 

[jillian]

Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site

Well, i can't speak to the article, though it does seem consistent with this article from army.mil news

apparently major gen. chambers, a born again christian, thinks you're only ethically fit for duty if you have religion shoved down your throat on a regular basis.

and they're spending our money on this because?

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers

These two stories are nowhere alike. This one seems quite reasonable. No soldier was required or even compelled to go. The concerts were just offered to anyone who wanted.

shhhhhhhhhhh...

you don't know what you're talking about and an actual brain is required to discuss these issues.

 

[Yurt]

Well... got anything besides the winger site?

Thought not..

Exactly why there is a "Just Plain Stupid Shit By Stupid People" subforum

There are links when you go beyond the initial link. I didn't say whether it was true or not. I posted the story. I think you're overreacting to say the least because you didn't get the source you wanted and because you don't like this story.

See Jillian's link above as well.

this is why you're just a boring partisan hack and a hypocrite....

you frequently diss people's sources...but you hate it when its done to you...

 

[xotoxi]

Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site

I'm sure that you pointed out that Pale's Obama-mama porn was from a winger site as well.

Don't recall the thread... but I do point our winger sources from both sides.. hell, it's why I have KMAN on permanent ignore, with his continual use of winger sites as 'proof'

Good call.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Well, i can't speak to the article, though it does seem consistent with this article from army.mil news

apparently major gen. chambers, a born again christian, thinks you're only ethically fit for duty if you have religion shoved down your throat on a regular basis.

and they're spending our money on this because?

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers

These two stories are nowhere alike. This one seems quite reasonable. No soldier was required or even compelled to go. The concerts were just offered to anyone who wanted.

shhhhhhhhhhh...

you don't know what you're talking about and an actual brain is required to discuss these issues.

Could you please quote the part of the article that shows Major Gen. Chambers, a born again christian, thinks you're only ethically fit for duty if you have religion shoved down your throat on a regular basis?

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers

 

[Truthmatters]

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."
"Chambers acknowledges without trepidation that there are some Soldiers who lack the moral upbringing or ethical consciousness to fulfill their promise as Soldiers"


His job is not to give them religion.

Its to train them to fight.

I am NO religion and so are MANY Americans and we dont want your religions no matter how much you think we should have them.

 

[Smartt33]

Well, i can't speak to the article, though it does seem consistent with this article from army.mil news

apparently major gen. chambers, a born again christian, thinks you're only ethically fit for duty if you have religion shoved down your throat on a regular basis.

and they're spending our money on this because?

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers

Nice leap... too bad you landed short... I usually think better of you, Jill

At Fort Eustis, he promoted a series of concerts, featuring Christian performers, aimed at awakening Soldiers' spiritual awareness.

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."

Chambers acknowledges without trepidation that there are some Soldiers who lack the moral upbringing or ethical consciousness to fulfill their promise as Soldiers.

Not REMOTELY what you contended AT ALL

Funny... we have Chaplains, chapels, etc paid for as well.. and rightfully so

Epic fail Jill, epic fail

really? what did i contend? did you bother readig the article? why didn't you copy the part where he said some soldiers don't have the ethical or moral consciousness to fulfil their promise as soldiers".

how dare he?

and you know, i was wondering how you'd quarrel with a miltiary site. it seems you didn't. you just left out the part you don't like.

let them spend their own money, and not mine, proselytizing.

oh... and for distorting what i said and what the article said:

the epic fail was yours, hon. i usually expect better from you, DD.

It is very true that there are men and women who join the military who do not have the moral or ethical consciousness to fulfill their duties as soldiers. I remember some of them while I was in the Army. Some were just kicked out because they were only there to have fun and sex, and do drugs. Some killed themselves, even right in the barricks where I lived. Some just trashed the nation while drinking themselves silly in foreigh bars.

Yes, the Chaplain was correct. There are some like that. I agree with him, those men and women need help.
However, in the OP story, I am not so sure the General knew what he was doing regarding the concerts. The two stories do not relate in any way except they both talked about concerts.

 

[DiamondDave]

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."


His job is not to give them religion.

Its to train them to fight.

I am NO religion and so are MANY Americans and we dont want your religions no matter how much you think we should have them.

ehhhhh.. wrong answer...

The military is not forbidden from having the presence of religion... just not to force you into a religion.... and to accommodate for your religious beliefs when reasonable request is submitted

 

[Truthmatters]

You dont get to decide what religion people need to be exposed to.

it is not the task of their commander to give them religion.

 

[Smartt33]

SUBSTANTIATION

I have seen, AS A SOLDIER, soldiers not telling the truth... I have also seen over the years where winger sites manipulate and overblow a story to fit their agenda

Again... give a credible source with corroboration of the supposed information, statements, etc

So why would 80 soldiers lie over this?

Actually I think only one or two even talked about the event. They told the story of 80 soldiers. 80 soldiers did not tell the story.

 

[Truthmatters]

Did he bring an atheist band in?