U.S. Midwest Freezes, Australia Burns: This Is the Age of Weather Extremes

[RodISHI]

Weather patterns change. always have always will. It is the nature of earth. Under 20 feet of mucky muck here in some places (in the midwest) there are giant sand dunes. How do you freaks calling for taxation of everyone and their brother, dog, cats and everything else under the sun explain that without admitted that the earth is a changing living organism that will not be controlled by humans no matter how hard they try?

 

[Crick]

You'll have to point out to me where folks on this forum have been calling for massive taxation. Those who accept the conclusions of the IPCC, that AGW is a threat to our well being that needs to be dealt with have certainly looked at solutions that involve taxation, but the impetus is not to beggar the nation, destroy industry or amass billions. The impetus is to convince people to reduce their emission of GHGs by increasing its cost. How much such a plan ends up costing any individual would depend entirely on their choices and actions. I am quite certain that any carbon taxing scheme would be accompanied by subsidies for alternative energy (as already exist), efforts to support and increase energy conservation and tax incentives to assist those making the most progress in saving this planet for the fellow human beings.

The idea that this problem is NOT of human origin and that is can NOT be controlled by human action is simply false. It is a very large problem and will take a large effort over a long period of time, but it can be solved. Like every other problem you've ever seen, it would have been easier to solve had we had the foresight and the will to have gotten going earlier. But that's humanity for you. As we heard in MiB, individually we're brilliant. In mass we're stupid cowards.

 

[RodISHI]

Masses are merely indoctrinated.

While I do agree that people need to clean up their act I am not into mass taxation where a few strip off the goods and leave shit for anyone else and that is exactly what the plan was and always is.

If you want responsible citizens you don't dumb them down with toxins for one and you teach them to be good citizens by giving them leadership they can look up to. Just putting some rich person in or just because someone looks ideal doesn't really mean jack but that is what has been used to indoctrinate people.

 

[Crick]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

 

[RodISHI]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

Taxing people for cigarettes or alcohol doesn't shape peoples behavior to the point that they won't do it. Where did all that tobacco suit money end up? (in peoples like the lawyers pockets)
Punishing people for being meth addicts does not curve their behavior either, giving them better choices might help a little or determine the root cause of why they are addicts to begin with. Or let them be addicts, give them areas where they can live while on those homeless streaks and stay out of their way. If they get tired of it they'll seek help. If not the smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts will just figure ways to get around your taxation and they will still be addicts anyhow. Heck some of them druggies will absolutely destroy their own health and wait til they have heart attacks to let their insurance which everyone pays a piece of kicks in to get the drugs they crave.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption,

Start giving people better options and start changing the primaries who have been running the commerce departments. Get people in that can use some common sense while doing that.

Alternative fuels like using grains for fuel sure isn't the way to go. Its double dipping on the fossil fuel issue in more ways than one. Whose super idea was that?

* Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel said. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol.Mar 6, 2009
70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in ...

https://www.organicconsumers.org/.../70-percent-more-energy-required-make-ethanol...

My car, van and pickup all use a heck of a lot more fuel using any gas with ethanol too (no I will not even try to get new ones as we live within our means which are pretty poor at the moment). I also have to wonder if the Cornell professor in that link I provided included any pesticides and herbicides petroleum load in their figures.

I could sit here for hours getting written down ideas but would it actually be fruitful or make a difference?

Personally we use very little petroleum based products and it irritates me to no end when I know what some of these big farming operations that are getting those big subsidies to grow corn for fuel do. They work on volume, getting those subsidies and could care less what they are polluting. Hell the government even subsidized putting in drain tiles so their runoff goes straight into the water table.

Perhaps you should look into the fluoride in all the water districts, what it does to the brain and the neurological damage vaccines have been doing over the years. Add those two issues along (not counting all the other ones not mentioned) with the ignorant indoctrinating another ignorant and indoctrinated generation because they were indoctrinated and we can start the conversation from there if you do not understand what I am talking about when I say toxins. If you want people to care they need to have enough intelligence that they can care about such things and they also have to have enough time in their lives to take the time to care too. As it is many people think they have to drive for several hours to get to that job they have (where ever it may be as that is going on all over the country from the west coast to the east coast) to actually make less than minimum wage at the end of the day because of the cost it takes for them to get to work and back. Brain damaged or lack of being taught how to manage money or that people must work various jobs to survive the cost of living these days; surely you can get a bit of a concept on that. I suppose for the ones that do work hard and have some sort of talented skill to make enough to play (own toys like boats, etc..) you could try to create a punitive measures like with alcohol or tobacco consumption but get ready for the backlash when you do that as they won't take it sitting down. Plus those bankers and the toy manufactures won't like it when they quit making payments on those toys or quit buying them.

 

[skookerasbil]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

Taxing people for cigarettes or alcohol doesn't shape peoples behavior to the point that they won't do it. Where did all that tobacco suit money end up? (in peoples like the lawyers pockets)
Punishing people for being meth addicts does not curve their behavior either, giving them better choices might help a little or determine the root cause of why they are addicts to begin with. Or let them be addicts, give them areas where they can live while on those homeless streaks and stay out of their way. If they get tired of it they'll seek help. If not the smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts will just figure ways to get around your taxation and they will still be addicts anyhow. Heck some of them druggies will absolutely destroy their own health and wait til they have heart attacks to let their insurance which everyone pays a piece of kicks in to get the drugs they crave.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption,

Start giving people better options and start changing the primaries who have been running the commerce departments. Get people in that can use some common sense while doing that.

Alternative fuels like using grains for fuel sure isn't the way to go. Its double dipping on the fossil fuel issue in more ways than one. Whose super idea was that?

* Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel said. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol.Mar 6, 2009
70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in ...

https://www.organicconsumers.org/.../70-percent-more-energy-required-make-ethanol...

My car, van and pickup all use a heck of a lot more fuel using any gas with ethanol too (no I will not even try to get new ones as we live within our means which are pretty poor at the moment). I also have to wonder if the Cornell professor in that link I provided included any pesticides and herbicides petroleum load in their figures.

I could sit here for hours getting written down ideas but would it actually be fruitful or make a difference?

Personally we use very little petroleum based products and it irritates me to no end when I know what some of these big farming operations that are getting those big subsidies to grow corn for fuel do. They work on volume, getting those subsidies and could care less what they are polluting. Hell the government even subsidized putting in drain tiles so their runoff goes straight into the water table.

Perhaps you should look into the fluoride in all the water districts, what it does to the brain and the neurological damage vaccines have been doing over the years. Add those two issues along (not counting all the other ones not mentioned) with the ignorant indoctrinating another ignorant and indoctrinated generation because they were indoctrinated and we can start the conversation from there if you do not understand what I am talking about when I say toxins. If you want people to care they need to have enough intelligence that they can care about such things and they also have to have enough time in their lives to take the time to care too. As it is many people think they have to drive for several hours to get to that job they have (where ever it may be as that is going on all over the country from the west coast to the east coast) to actually make less than minimum wage at the end of the day because of the cost it takes for them to get to work and back. Brain damaged or lack of being taught how to manage money or that people must work various jobs to survive the cost of living these days; surely you can get a bit of a concept on that. I suppose for the ones that do work hard and have some sort of talented skill to make enough to play (own toys like boats, etc..) you could try to create a punitive measures like with alcohol or tobacco consumption but get ready for the backlash when you do that as they won't take it sitting down. Plus those bankers and the toy manufactures won't like it when they quit making payments on those toys or quit buying them.

Rod....sounds like you've read Jude Wanniski's, THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS? Read it in 1980....most impactful book I ever read. Zero chance a single climate crusader has ever read it.

At the time I read it, I was spellbound in college due to reading all the great German-American philosophers.....from Marx to Witfoggel. You read Wanniski and realize those people didnt know dick about economics....like a hammer to the head.

You recognize the silliness of embracing schemes to address climate change. Impossible to implement. Thankfully, all over the world, public policy makers have rejected such measures! They like keeping their power!!

 

[RodISHI]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

Taxing people for cigarettes or alcohol doesn't shape peoples behavior to the point that they won't do it. Where did all that tobacco suit money end up? (in peoples like the lawyers pockets)
Punishing people for being meth addicts does not curve their behavior either, giving them better choices might help a little or determine the root cause of why they are addicts to begin with. Or let them be addicts, give them areas where they can live while on those homeless streaks and stay out of their way. If they get tired of it they'll seek help. If not the smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts will just figure ways to get around your taxation and they will still be addicts anyhow. Heck some of them druggies will absolutely destroy their own health and wait til they have heart attacks to let their insurance which everyone pays a piece of kicks in to get the drugs they crave.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption,

Start giving people better options and start changing the primaries who have been running the commerce departments. Get people in that can use some common sense while doing that.

Alternative fuels like using grains for fuel sure isn't the way to go. Its double dipping on the fossil fuel issue in more ways than one. Whose super idea was that?

* Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel said. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol.Mar 6, 2009
70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in ...

https://www.organicconsumers.org/.../70-percent-more-energy-required-make-ethanol...

My car, van and pickup all use a heck of a lot more fuel using any gas with ethanol too (no I will not even try to get new ones as we live within our means which are pretty poor at the moment). I also have to wonder if the Cornell professor in that link I provided included any pesticides and herbicides petroleum load in their figures.

I could sit here for hours getting written down ideas but would it actually be fruitful or make a difference?

Personally we use very little petroleum based products and it irritates me to no end when I know what some of these big farming operations that are getting those big subsidies to grow corn for fuel do. They work on volume, getting those subsidies and could care less what they are polluting. Hell the government even subsidized putting in drain tiles so their runoff goes straight into the water table.

Perhaps you should look into the fluoride in all the water districts, what it does to the brain and the neurological damage vaccines have been doing over the years. Add those two issues along (not counting all the other ones not mentioned) with the ignorant indoctrinating another ignorant and indoctrinated generation because they were indoctrinated and we can start the conversation from there if you do not understand what I am talking about when I say toxins. If you want people to care they need to have enough intelligence that they can care about such things and they also have to have enough time in their lives to take the time to care too. As it is many people think they have to drive for several hours to get to that job they have (where ever it may be as that is going on all over the country from the west coast to the east coast) to actually make less than minimum wage at the end of the day because of the cost it takes for them to get to work and back. Brain damaged or lack of being taught how to manage money or that people must work various jobs to survive the cost of living these days; surely you can get a bit of a concept on that. I suppose for the ones that do work hard and have some sort of talented skill to make enough to play (own toys like boats, etc..) you could try to create a punitive measures like with alcohol or tobacco consumption but get ready for the backlash when you do that as they won't take it sitting down. Plus those bankers and the toy manufactures won't like it when they quit making payments on those toys or quit buying them.

Rod....sounds like you've read Jude Wanniski's, THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS? Read it in 1980....most impactful book I ever read. Zero chance a single climate crusader has ever read it.

At the time I read it, I was spellbound in college due to reading all the great German-American philosophers.....from Marx to Witfoggel. You read Wanniski and realize those people didnt know dick about economics....like a hammer to the head.

You recognize the silliness of embracing schemes to address climate change. Impossible to implement. Thankfully, all over the world, public policy makers have rejected such measures! They like keeping their power!!

Haven't read it but sounds interesting. That attempt at retaining power and greed does play a big part in how things go down. Logic and common sense isn't always in "the plan" a lot of humans devise in their desires to assert control other people.

 

[skookerasbil]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

Taxing people for cigarettes or alcohol doesn't shape peoples behavior to the point that they won't do it. Where did all that tobacco suit money end up? (in peoples like the lawyers pockets)
Punishing people for being meth addicts does not curve their behavior either, giving them better choices might help a little or determine the root cause of why they are addicts to begin with. Or let them be addicts, give them areas where they can live while on those homeless streaks and stay out of their way. If they get tired of it they'll seek help. If not the smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts will just figure ways to get around your taxation and they will still be addicts anyhow. Heck some of them druggies will absolutely destroy their own health and wait til they have heart attacks to let their insurance which everyone pays a piece of kicks in to get the drugs they crave.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption,

Start giving people better options and start changing the primaries who have been running the commerce departments. Get people in that can use some common sense while doing that.

Alternative fuels like using grains for fuel sure isn't the way to go. Its double dipping on the fossil fuel issue in more ways than one. Whose super idea was that?

* Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel said. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol.Mar 6, 2009
70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in ...

https://www.organicconsumers.org/.../70-percent-more-energy-required-make-ethanol...

My car, van and pickup all use a heck of a lot more fuel using any gas with ethanol too (no I will not even try to get new ones as we live within our means which are pretty poor at the moment). I also have to wonder if the Cornell professor in that link I provided included any pesticides and herbicides petroleum load in their figures.

I could sit here for hours getting written down ideas but would it actually be fruitful or make a difference?

Personally we use very little petroleum based products and it irritates me to no end when I know what some of these big farming operations that are getting those big subsidies to grow corn for fuel do. They work on volume, getting those subsidies and could care less what they are polluting. Hell the government even subsidized putting in drain tiles so their runoff goes straight into the water table.

Perhaps you should look into the fluoride in all the water districts, what it does to the brain and the neurological damage vaccines have been doing over the years. Add those two issues along (not counting all the other ones not mentioned) with the ignorant indoctrinating another ignorant and indoctrinated generation because they were indoctrinated and we can start the conversation from there if you do not understand what I am talking about when I say toxins. If you want people to care they need to have enough intelligence that they can care about such things and they also have to have enough time in their lives to take the time to care too. As it is many people think they have to drive for several hours to get to that job they have (where ever it may be as that is going on all over the country from the west coast to the east coast) to actually make less than minimum wage at the end of the day because of the cost it takes for them to get to work and back. Brain damaged or lack of being taught how to manage money or that people must work various jobs to survive the cost of living these days; surely you can get a bit of a concept on that. I suppose for the ones that do work hard and have some sort of talented skill to make enough to play (own toys like boats, etc..) you could try to create a punitive measures like with alcohol or tobacco consumption but get ready for the backlash when you do that as they won't take it sitting down. Plus those bankers and the toy manufactures won't like it when they quit making payments on those toys or quit buying them.

Rod....sounds like you've read Jude Wanniski's, THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS? Read it in 1980....most impactful book I ever read. Zero chance a single climate crusader has ever read it.

At the time I read it, I was spellbound in college due to reading all the great German-American philosophers.....from Marx to Witfoggel. You read Wanniski and realize those people didnt know dick about economics....like a hammer to the head.

You recognize the silliness of embracing schemes to address climate change. Impossible to implement. Thankfully, all over the world, public policy makers have rejected such measures! They like keeping their power!!

Haven't read it but sounds interesting. That attempt at retaining power and greed does play a big part in how things go down. Logic and common sense isn't always in "the plan" a lot of humans devise in their desires to assert control other people.

World governments have no interest in seeing millions of yellow-vests running around in their cities. They'll continue to throw little bones the the environmental contingent and back it with alot of talk. That'll keep 'em happy.....they are easily duped but hopelessly idealistic.

Look at the last 20 years.....they keep having these climate summits every year and accomplish dick. Climate change action worldwide is laughable! But the k00ks come back every year with, "Well.....next year....!!!!!"

The policy makers know not enough people care.....especially in the US. Congress could not possibly be less interested!

Guys like Crick will be moments from going into his box and still be enthuiastically talking about the next stage ion battery!

 

[Billy_Bob]

And yet the historical record calls our crop of alarmists out as liars.. Flat out liars...

Its been far warmer than today and with greater swings in temperature..

View attachment 243513

I love the SNIPPET view of alarmists.... Only the snip they think will cause the most fear and get people to give up their freedoms most easily... for nothing more than a manufactured crisis and lie.

Billy Bob's graphic was made from a single, known-unrepresentative Greenland ice core. Accurate temperature data for the Holocene (the past 11,000 years), made from 73 proxies world wide, may be found at numerous locations by searching the title: A reconstruction of regional and global temperature for the past 11,300 years.

Note the RATE of temperature increase in the contemporary data compared to anything seen prior. Note also that current temperatures are at least the equal, if not slightly higher, than anything seen in the last 11,300 years.

Way to go Moron... You just dispelled your own meme.. Your own graphs show that 1. we were much warmer than today, 2. that the swings in temp were greater than today... In other words you just pawned yourself....

Everything you just pontificated about you destroyed by the data YOU PROVIDED! To add to your misery, Everything you posted confirms my determination of your 'snippet' view as being wrong and misleading.

Thanks for crushing that egg on your own face.... Enjoy it!

 

[Crick]

I have never said it was hotter now than it had ever been. Thanks for showing everyone here how little you pay attention to the arguments of others.

I HAVE said CO2 levels and temperature are changing faster now than at any time since the Chicxulub impact. Thanks for not even noticing the difference in the rate of change.

 

[jc456]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

why don't you show the observed empirical evidence that if all that was done something would actually be achieved? you can't, you won't you don't care if you kill folks for no reason. you don't. It's very apparent in here. you can't post one fking piece of observed empirical piece of evidence to back up your silliness kill mankind game.

 

[Crick]

You are the ignorant, short-sighted fool that will kill people. Hundreds of thousands of them.

 

[jc456]

You are the ignorant, short-sighted fool that will kill people. Hundreds of thousands of them.

nah, I have the planet on my side. see IR comes in and it leaves, when it leaves, the earth cools, and until you can prove a second heat source, you lose. sorry friend. you wish to use lying as your source of heat that doesn't exist. just post up how CO2 heats up the surface and you can save face. CO2 absorbs what it gets and emits or hands it off. that's it. And the 1% it emits is right after it is absorbed, all you have to do is show me the experiment that shows CO2 warms up the IR it receives. go!!!!

 

[Crick]

The problem with global warming is not the absolute temperatures we will reach, but the rate at which we will reach them.

 

[abu afak]

If only a few pay the taxes, the term "mass" is not an accurate adjective. The 'plan' is to use the tax to shape people's behavior. The same is done every day with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and hunting endangered animals. I have no idea what you mean by dumbing down the populace with toxins. When you talk about a shortage of leadership I think I better understand what you're saying.

If you have a better idea as to how we can all be convinced to dramatically reduce our fossil fuel consumption, by all means speak up.

why don't you show the observed empirical evidence that if all that was done something would actually be achieved? you can't, you won't you don't care if you kill folks for no reason. you don't. It's very apparent in here. you can't post one fking piece of observed empirical piece of evidence to back up your silliness kill mankind game.

Actually NASA/NOAA thought of that, and they've determined the 20th/21st C warming is NOT Solar Forcing as radiation has, if anything, slightly gone down in the period.
So Solly!
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