U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

[JGalt]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

You can't link to other forums.

First, it's not evidence of anything.

Second, it's against board rules.

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus | Frontpage Mag

 

[JGalt]

This article from MSM Australia cites the Epoch Times as the source of the rumor.

Chilling theory about ‘lost’ mobile phones puts Chinese coronavirus deaths in the millions

A theory based on mobile phone use has put Chinese deaths in the possible millions. But is it just a conspiracy?

7news.com.au

The Epoch Times is an anti-communist Chinese organization based in the US. They are associated with the Falun Gong, a persecuted Chinese religious sect.

 

[Kilroy2]

Is this the same US intelligence that said Trump obstructed justice

 

[satrebil]

We have 14 CDC staff embedded in Beijing. There are also journalists there from Europe. Do you think they would not have heard ANYTHING about millions of people dying. Millions. That's hard to cover up and hard to miss.

You make this assumption because you live in a society that (for the most part) promotes freedom and unrestricted access to information. You clearly do not understand the amount of control China exerts over it's industry, infrastructure, and populace.

I was just thinking that if 20 million people were dying in four months, that someone would have heard something or seen something. That's a mighty lot of people. I realize the Chinese government would try to cover it up, but .... I just find it hard to imagine that many people dying without people in Beijing getting wind of it. Maybe the Chinese government is really, really good at hiding stuff. I don't know. That's what I was thinking.

We have seen & heard it. Twitter alone was awash in videos uploaded via VPN's & proxies that showed the true scope of infection and death running rampant through Chinese cities. The Chinese government knew full well what was happening and they clamped down hard on the flow of information. Yes, they are "really, really good at hiding stuff". Google China's Great Firewall to start.

I don't know what VPN's and proxies are, but does that mean the pics came from China and you're sure they're not photoshopped? I've caught some of the ridiculous shit that's been spread around about the evil Muslims. Just being cautious here.

20 million? No.

To oversimplify it - VPNs/proxies are services that allow you to get around a firewall by obscuring your internet traffic. Instead of connecting directly to the internet, as most of us do, you connect to a "middle man", and the middle man provides or submits your content.

To lay out a scenario - China actively blocks any information it can find about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. It absolutely DOES NOT want it's citizens reading about it. So, as an example, the Wikipedia article about it would assuredly be blocked by "China's Great Firewall". If the average Chinese citizen tried to access it directly, they would likely just get an error message.

A VPN/proxy gets around that. Instead of opening their browser and trying to go to the wikipedia article, they would go to a proxy service. For discussion purposes we'll just call it "proxy.com". Through proxy.com they would go to Wikipedia, search Tiananmen Square Massacre, and be directed to the article. As far as China's censorship system is concerned, all the Chinese user is seeing is "proxy.com".

China is very vigilant about this and adds any proxy service they find to their firewall in an effort to keep their citizens uninformed. This works both ways, as the firewall can also detect and eliminate information submitted TO the internet based upon any number of keywords or algorithms they implement. The average Chinese person does not know how to circumvent these things which is why legitimate information out of China is so scant. The few that do know how to do it have to be damn sure they are covering their tracks for fear of government retribution.

As for the actual number of infections/deaths, who knows the actual truth of it. Our intelligence agencies probably do, which would go a long way towards explaining the draconian measures that have been employed to stop the spread of covid. But I'm absolutely certain it's far, FAR higher than the Chicoms have told us. Disinformation is literally what their government is built on and how it maintains control.

 

[JGalt]

Is this the same US intelligence that said Trump obstructed justice

Pretty much. Un-elected government workers don't change from administration to administration, for the most part.

 

[Crepitus]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

You can't link to other forums.

First, it's not evidence of anything.

Second, it's against board rules.

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus | Frontpage Mag

Right, but they are only telling the epoc times.

 

[Augustine_]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

 

[satrebil]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

Come Again?

 

[Augustine_]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

Come Again?

View attachment 325088View attachment 325089

View attachment 325090View attachment 325091
View attachment 325092

TIME TO OPEN UP, right?!! Fucking idiot.

 

[satrebil]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

Come Again?

View attachment 325088View attachment 325089

View attachment 325090View attachment 325091
View attachment 325092

TIME TO OPEN UP, right?!! Fucking idiot.

That's right, move the goalposts since your bold-faced lie was just blown out of the solar system.

And yes, it is time to open up. The vulnerable are free to stay home & request government assistance while the rest of us build herd immunity and a vaccine is developed. There is no logical reason to keep destroying lives & livelihoods over this.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

If our intelligence agencies say anything it's likely a democrat lie.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

If true, then what kind of fucking idiots would want to end the lockdown?

Which begs the question, why is Trump tweeting about ending the lockdown if what the OP writes is correct?

The lockdown cannot be sustained.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If true, then what kind of fucking idiots would want to end the lockdown?

Which begs the question, why is Trump tweeting about ending the lockdown if what the OP writes is correct?

The same people who have never locked down to begin with.

You don't get out much, do you ?

 

[OldLady]

We have 14 CDC staff embedded in Beijing. There are also journalists there from Europe. Do you think they would not have heard ANYTHING about millions of people dying. Millions. That's hard to cover up and hard to miss.

You make this assumption because you live in a society that (for the most part) promotes freedom and unrestricted access to information. You clearly do not understand the amount of control China exerts over it's industry, infrastructure, and populace.

I was just thinking that if 20 million people were dying in four months, that someone would have heard something or seen something. That's a mighty lot of people. I realize the Chinese government would try to cover it up, but .... I just find it hard to imagine that many people dying without people in Beijing getting wind of it. Maybe the Chinese government is really, really good at hiding stuff. I don't know. That's what I was thinking.

We have seen & heard it. Twitter alone was awash in videos uploaded via VPN's & proxies that showed the true scope of infection and death running rampant through Chinese cities. The Chinese government knew full well what was happening and they clamped down hard on the flow of information. Yes, they are "really, really good at hiding stuff". Google China's Great Firewall to start.

I don't know what VPN's and proxies are, but does that mean the pics came from China and you're sure they're not photoshopped? I've caught some of the ridiculous shit that's been spread around about the evil Muslims. Just being cautious here.

20 million? No.

To oversimplify it - VPNs/proxies are services that allow you to get around a firewall by obscuring your internet traffic. Instead of connecting directly to the internet, as most of us do, you connect to a "middle man", and the middle man provides or submits your content.

To lay out a scenario - China actively blocks any information it can find about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. It absolutely DOES NOT want it's citizens reading about it. So, as an example, the Wikipedia article about it would assuredly be blocked by "China's Great Firewall". If the average Chinese citizen tried to access it directly, they would likely just get an error message.

A VPN/proxy gets around that. Instead of opening their browser and trying to go to the wikipedia article, they would go to a proxy service. For discussion purposes we'll just call it "proxy.com". Through proxy.com they would go to Wikipedia, search Tiananmen Square Massacre, and be directed to the article. As far as China's censorship system is concerned, all the Chinese user is seeing is "proxy.com".

China is very vigilant about this and adds any proxy service they find to their firewall in an effort to keep their citizens uninformed. This works both ways, as the firewall can also detect and eliminate information submitted TO the internet based upon any number of keywords or algorithms they implement. The average Chinese person does not know how to circumvent these things which is why legitimate information out of China is so scant. The few that do know how to do it have to be damn sure they are covering their tracks for fear of government retribution.

As for the actual number of infections/deaths, who knows the actual truth of it. Our intelligence agencies probably do, which would go a long way towards explaining the draconian measures that have been employed to stop the spread of covid. But I'm absolutely certain it's far, FAR higher than the Chicoms have told us. Disinformation is literally what their government is built on and how it maintains control.

Thank you for explaining about VPN/proxies. I appreciate it.

 

[satrebil]

We have 14 CDC staff embedded in Beijing. There are also journalists there from Europe. Do you think they would not have heard ANYTHING about millions of people dying. Millions. That's hard to cover up and hard to miss.

You make this assumption because you live in a society that (for the most part) promotes freedom and unrestricted access to information. You clearly do not understand the amount of control China exerts over it's industry, infrastructure, and populace.

I was just thinking that if 20 million people were dying in four months, that someone would have heard something or seen something. That's a mighty lot of people. I realize the Chinese government would try to cover it up, but .... I just find it hard to imagine that many people dying without people in Beijing getting wind of it. Maybe the Chinese government is really, really good at hiding stuff. I don't know. That's what I was thinking.

We have seen & heard it. Twitter alone was awash in videos uploaded via VPN's & proxies that showed the true scope of infection and death running rampant through Chinese cities. The Chinese government knew full well what was happening and they clamped down hard on the flow of information. Yes, they are "really, really good at hiding stuff". Google China's Great Firewall to start.

I don't know what VPN's and proxies are, but does that mean the pics came from China and you're sure they're not photoshopped? I've caught some of the ridiculous shit that's been spread around about the evil Muslims. Just being cautious here.

20 million? No.

To oversimplify it - VPNs/proxies are services that allow you to get around a firewall by obscuring your internet traffic. Instead of connecting directly to the internet, as most of us do, you connect to a "middle man", and the middle man provides or submits your content.

To lay out a scenario - China actively blocks any information it can find about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. It absolutely DOES NOT want it's citizens reading about it. So, as an example, the Wikipedia article about it would assuredly be blocked by "China's Great Firewall". If the average Chinese citizen tried to access it directly, they would likely just get an error message.

A VPN/proxy gets around that. Instead of opening their browser and trying to go to the wikipedia article, they would go to a proxy service. For discussion purposes we'll just call it "proxy.com". Through proxy.com they would go to Wikipedia, search Tiananmen Square Massacre, and be directed to the article. As far as China's censorship system is concerned, all the Chinese user is seeing is "proxy.com".

China is very vigilant about this and adds any proxy service they find to their firewall in an effort to keep their citizens uninformed. This works both ways, as the firewall can also detect and eliminate information submitted TO the internet based upon any number of keywords or algorithms they implement. The average Chinese person does not know how to circumvent these things which is why legitimate information out of China is so scant. The few that do know how to do it have to be damn sure they are covering their tracks for fear of government retribution.

As for the actual number of infections/deaths, who knows the actual truth of it. Our intelligence agencies probably do, which would go a long way towards explaining the draconian measures that have been employed to stop the spread of covid. But I'm absolutely certain it's far, FAR higher than the Chicoms have told us. Disinformation is literally what their government is built on and how it maintains control.

Thank you for explaining about VPN/proxies. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Now that it's been explained, take it to heart and realize that any information that is sent from authoritarian regimes is likely highly pruned and in many cases entirely false. The modern western world has never been subject to these measures. While we in the west may be privy to everything from legitimate news to "chem trail conspiracies" - folks in areas such as China never even get the chance to separate fact from fiction. They are fed one line of thinking, one narrative, and that narrative is absolute. Question it and you may very well disappear. That is why, in western civilization, freedom of speech is so precious and must be defended at all cost - even the stuff you don't like. The Founding Fathers made no mistake by making it the 1st Amendment.

 

[OldLady]

We have 14 CDC staff embedded in Beijing. There are also journalists there from Europe. Do you think they would not have heard ANYTHING about millions of people dying. Millions. That's hard to cover up and hard to miss.

You make this assumption because you live in a society that (for the most part) promotes freedom and unrestricted access to information. You clearly do not understand the amount of control China exerts over it's industry, infrastructure, and populace.

I was just thinking that if 20 million people were dying in four months, that someone would have heard something or seen something. That's a mighty lot of people. I realize the Chinese government would try to cover it up, but .... I just find it hard to imagine that many people dying without people in Beijing getting wind of it. Maybe the Chinese government is really, really good at hiding stuff. I don't know. That's what I was thinking.

We have seen & heard it. Twitter alone was awash in videos uploaded via VPN's & proxies that showed the true scope of infection and death running rampant through Chinese cities. The Chinese government knew full well what was happening and they clamped down hard on the flow of information. Yes, they are "really, really good at hiding stuff". Google China's Great Firewall to start.

I don't know what VPN's and proxies are, but does that mean the pics came from China and you're sure they're not photoshopped? I've caught some of the ridiculous shit that's been spread around about the evil Muslims. Just being cautious here.

20 million? No.

To oversimplify it - VPNs/proxies are services that allow you to get around a firewall by obscuring your internet traffic. Instead of connecting directly to the internet, as most of us do, you connect to a "middle man", and the middle man provides or submits your content.

To lay out a scenario - China actively blocks any information it can find about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. It absolutely DOES NOT want it's citizens reading about it. So, as an example, the Wikipedia article about it would assuredly be blocked by "China's Great Firewall". If the average Chinese citizen tried to access it directly, they would likely just get an error message.

A VPN/proxy gets around that. Instead of opening their browser and trying to go to the wikipedia article, they would go to a proxy service. For discussion purposes we'll just call it "proxy.com". Through proxy.com they would go to Wikipedia, search Tiananmen Square Massacre, and be directed to the article. As far as China's censorship system is concerned, all the Chinese user is seeing is "proxy.com".

China is very vigilant about this and adds any proxy service they find to their firewall in an effort to keep their citizens uninformed. This works both ways, as the firewall can also detect and eliminate information submitted TO the internet based upon any number of keywords or algorithms they implement. The average Chinese person does not know how to circumvent these things which is why legitimate information out of China is so scant. The few that do know how to do it have to be damn sure they are covering their tracks for fear of government retribution.

As for the actual number of infections/deaths, who knows the actual truth of it. Our intelligence agencies probably do, which would go a long way towards explaining the draconian measures that have been employed to stop the spread of covid. But I'm absolutely certain it's far, FAR higher than the Chicoms have told us. Disinformation is literally what their government is built on and how it maintains control.

Thank you for explaining about VPN/proxies. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Now that it's been explained, take it to heart and realize that any information that is sent from authoritarian regimes is likely highly pruned and in many cases entirely false. The modern western world has never been subject to these measures. While we in the west may be privy to everything from legitimate news to "chem trail conspiracies" - folks in areas such as China never even get the chance to separate fact from fiction. They are fed one line of thinking, one narrative, and that narrative is absolute. Question it and you may very well disappear. That is why, in western civilization, freedom of speech is so precious and must be defended at all cost - even the stuff you don't like. The Founding Fathers made no mistake by making it the 1st Amendment.

"Freedom" of speech is taken advantage of in this country. But that's another thread.

You don't have to lecture me on Bad Communism. I was raised with it. Communism must not be all it's cracked up to be or their leaders wouldn't have to kill and imprison millions in order to get it established, and then work their tails off in perpetuity to keep the people's mouths shut.

BUT around here, on USMB, equating anyone who disagrees with Trump as a communist is plain stupid.

 

[Crepitus]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

Come Again?

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TIME TO OPEN UP, right?!! Fucking idiot.

That's right, move the goalposts since your bold-faced lie was just blown out of the solar system.

And yes, it is time to open up. The vulnerable are free to stay home & request government assistance while the rest of us build herd immunity and a vaccine is developed. There is no logical reason to keep destroying lives & livelihoods over this.

Only retarded republicans are still saying "it's just the flu".

 

[Kilroy2]

Is this the same US intelligence that said Trump obstructed justice

Pretty much. Un-elected government workers don't change from administration to administration, for the most part.

That true by the leader at the top can influence what and how they do their job

 

[Billy_Bob]

An ex-Fake News CNN “fact-checker” disagrees with the US intelligence's assessment, but how could US intelligence be wrong? I have it on good authority from every Democrat, that US intelligence is never ever wrong, even when they tried to remove President Trump from office.

"China’s official tally of deaths attributable to the coronavirus stands at 3,341 as of April 14, 2020. Anyone who believes that this figure is anywhere near accurate should reflect on Confucius’s quote about truth:

“Three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

The Chinese government withheld crucial information regarding the human to human transmission of the coronavirus in the early days of the outbreak and has published phony numbers on cases and deaths in China linked to the virus ever since. The truth is coming out slowly but surely regarding the real death toll in China. Some observers have estimated more than 40,000 deaths in Wuhan alone, based on a variety of data points, including the numbers of urns provided by funeral homes and the volume of cremations. More recently, according to new data intercepted and analyzed by the United States intelligence, as reported in an article published earlier this month by News NT, it is estimated that China has experienced at least 20.9 million deaths from December 2019 to March 2020 linked to the coronavirus. This was the period during which the spread of the deadly virus was reaching its peak in China.

One way of deriving a more accurate number of deaths in China as opposed to the Chinese government’s absurdly low propaganda number is to examine the number of cell phone account closings, which the Chinese government itself reported during the relevant time period. The Chinese government announced on March 19th that over 21 million cell phone accounts in China were canceled in the past three months, according to the News NT article. After some increase of cell phone accounts still open in December 2019, when the virus was first detected, the number of open accounts dropped sharply in 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak was raging in China. “Cell phones are an indispensable part of life in China and its only closed when the user is dead,” the intelligence report said, as quoted by NT News.

However, the U.S. media apologists for Chinese propaganda think otherwise. A so-called “fact-check” article written by Ryan Cooper, a former CNN employee who now writes for an organization called “Lead Stories,” purported to refute the accuracy of the NT News article. Cooper did admit that other sources were reporting the existence of an intelligence report in early April, which concluded that China had deliberately underreported the number of coronavirus cases and related deaths. Nevertheless, Cooper claimed that the NT News story “is false and wrongly interpreted data from Chinese cellphone companies to make a broad claim that isn’t backed up by facts.”

U.S. Intelligence Estimates Millions of Chinese Deaths From Coronavirus

"HEY, IT'S JUST THE FLU" - retarded republicans

Come Again?

View attachment 325088View attachment 325089

View attachment 325090View attachment 325091
View attachment 325092

Tell Coumo to open up New York... Then watch as a million people die... Moron!