U.S. Fracking's Larger Implications

[Chuckt]

They would have loved it more, if I hadn't held out.
If amounts don't matter, you'd quit stealing all the royalty checks you owe the landowners, and hiding prolific wells, and saving a dime here and there by dumping toxic waste out of site somewhere.

I have no opinion on the matter. I just saw this news article and wanted for you to be informed.

Has fracking contaminated drinking water? A Duke University study says its wastewater wasn't adequately treated before being released into a Pennsylvania river, causing elevated levels of radioactivity.

Fracking linked to radioactive river water in Pa.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I know. It's a real crap shoot.
Companies have always been extracting something from this area. Most tried to be responsible about it, and were diligent in the past, but this time around it's a whole different ruthless ball game. It's not the accidents that worry us as much as it is the wanton destruction of our land that has us fighting back.
It's this:

"What's lacking is enforced monitoring," Vengosh says, noting that the samples collected by Duke suggest that radioactive water was still being discharged in 2012.

I wish they'd confer with someone concerning good faith and corporate responsibility. We're doing our part.

 

[RGR]

I have no opinion on the matter. I just saw this news article and wanted for you to be informed.

Irish isn't interested in "informed", only getting while the getting is good. Certainly it isn't as though she has much in the way of economic prospects based on her abilities, training or experience.

 

[RGR]

I know. It's a real crap shoot.
Companies have always been extracting something from this area. Most tried to be responsible about it, and were diligent in the past, but this time around it's a whole different ruthless ball game.

Yes, those "responsible" other folks. How very selective you are in your memory Irish. Here is what those responsible folks leave behind....decades after they leave....

As coal mine smolders, U.S. town lingers | Reuters

versus how the oil and gas industry handles its extraction techniques....

Damn! What a mess! And not even on fire after a few decades!

 

[The Irish Ram]

My memories are fine. I drive by old strip pits all the time. All reclaimed and looking like the rest of the rolling hills. Can't even tell they were here. They had the corporate responsibility of leaving us unharmed also, and they were diligent in their efforts. Which is why we're tolerant of accidents or industry related mishaps.

The gas build up under the steel mill building that blew the concrete floor and the men standing on it right through the concrete ceiling above was a tragic accident. We didn't scream foul. There were no picket signs, or meetings with the President in Washington. We didn't try to close steel mills down because of a potential danger. We buried our dead and went back to work.

The picture you posted is lovely and what we hope for concerning the gas and oil industry. See that picture? It's proof that you don't have to destroy our property to be productive. Nor do you have to lie about well production, or steal our share of the profits, or dump your waste in the woods behind that site.
Fast forward a few decades and that is exactly what you are doing. A few decades ago, you had scruples. You've replaced them with dollar signs. What you do is take it all and give back what you're forced to through litigation.

Shall we discuss your business ethics, concerning elderly Ken Buell's farm? Yeah, that one!
Considering the whopper you hit on his land, (did you voice your disdain for coal's shoddy workmanship to N. American Coal Co. when you bought their mineral lease to that land, Faust?) never contacting Ken about your plans for his property, showing up unannounced, helping yourself to the surface of his land to plop down your well, and locking the gate to his property behind you was pretty ruthless and sadly typical. It's why we don't like you very much.
Did you cry when you had to take the lock off? Disturbing how you get attached to things that aren't yours. You, who resents our royalty checks as money we didn't have to work for.
For every well pic you parade, I can counter with pics from the dark side of how you do business. We are giving you our gas and oil, you are giving us unnecessary destruction and grief. And then begrudgingly settling after we haul your nasty butt into court.
There is an easier way. It's called shared responsibility. < (bet that just made your skin crawl)
Our gas, our oil, our coal, is what our country needs. Stop trying to screw us for offering it, or we may quit offering it.

 

[Mr. H.]

Shale development big boost for steel industry - Pittsburgh Business Times

Robert F. Powelson said that Marcellus Shale development has been like spraying WD-40 on the region's rust-belt economy.

Powelson, chairman of the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission, and representatives from the North American steel industry were on hand Monday at the Consumer Energy Alliance's Energy and Manufacturing Summit to discuss the opportunity natural gas is bringing to the domestic steel industry.

 

[RGR]

The picture you posted is lovely and what we hope for concerning the gas and oil industry. See that picture? It's proof that you don't have to destroy our property to be productive.

Of course it is. Just like I've been telling you.

Nor do you have to lie about well production, or steal our share of the profits, or dump your waste in the woods behind that site.

Considering that none of those things have happened to you, you are whistling past a graveyard. Oil and gas production is reported to the state and not telling the truth has penalties, what you are getting isn't called "profit" because you don't have the brains or ability to work in the oil and gas business, as you have already stated. You just happen to be the person who owns something that you aren't smart enough to get for yourself. Profit implies you could run the business, and as you have explained, you and the locals can't. And I have filled in the "why" in this regard.

For every well pic you parade, I can counter with pics from the dark side of how you do business.

Do as you wish. And apparently not a single one of them will be on your land, because you don't have a lease. You have no experience with anything in this regard, and should therefore stop pretending you do, the stories of others certainly constituting the type of heresy that even lawyers are smart enough to not allow into courtroom.

Them knowing the tendency of rubes to gossip inaccurately as well as oilmen do.

Our gas, our oil, our coal, is what our country needs.

Absolutely. But we certainly don't need amateur locals genetically predisposed towards farming since inbred down even further and those who remained trained in a substandard unionized public educational system without the work ethic to even be able to get a job in the industry, let alone manage and run it, (and in your case with ZERO experience with oil and gas leasing because you haven't signed it yet) pretending you know anything about how to do this work.

You have already shown why you and your neighbors aren't qualified. So take your money rube, knowing that it certainly isn't something you could have ever earned through talent, training, or ability.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Shale development big boost for steel industry - Pittsburgh Business Times

Robert F. Powelson said that Marcellus Shale development has been like spraying WD-40 on the region's rust-belt economy.

Powelson, chairman of the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission, and representatives from the North American steel industry were on hand Monday at the Consumer Energy Alliance's Energy and Manufacturing Summit to discuss the opportunity natural gas is bringing to the domestic steel industry.

That would be a big deal in this area H. We just had an aluminum mill close because of skyrocketing electric costs. And Obama is killing the coal industry. So we're hoping the gas boom will level the playing field in this area that took such a hit because of NAFTA. Gas and oil has been a blessing for small business here. We're feeding, and housing workers and catering to their needs. It is a temporary boom that will lessen and then disappear as workers finish up the manual labor and move on. We need a long term plan that the whole country can benefit from. United Sates producing steel would be one such plan. We could use our gas to produce our steel and export that instead of our energy source.
This country should benefit from an energy source that is home grown and affordable. Unfortunately, that depends on our gov. as well, and they rarely do anything that benefits us these days.
I'm concerned about the government's increasing urge to export our gas before it's even out of the ground. China is already profiting, instead of us, from our coal energy we aren't allowed to use any more. They are using it to make the cheap quality steel we're buying. They have also bought out a third of Chesapeake Gas, and Europe wants a chunk too. Exporting our gas is going to raise the price of it for consumers here. It would be a shame for us to take the environmental hit, so other countries can reap the benefits. Since our Gov. is taking the stand that everything we have is a gift from them, we might want to remind them that charity begins at home:
U.S. steps up natural gas exports - Jun. 4, 2013

 

[Mr. Sauerkraut]

After you let them poison your lakes, rivers, seas, food and children, you let them poison the ground where you live. I can´t understand that. Why do you give all this power to Monsanto, Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and so on? What will you let them do next? They will never stop until YOU stop them.

 

[Mr. H.]

After you let them poison your lakes, rivers, seas, food and children, you let them poison the ground where you live. I can´t understand that. Why do you give all this power to Monsanto, Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and so on? What will you let them do next? They will never stop until YOU stop them.

LOL that's a stretch.

Any comment on the agriculture industry and its contributions?
From "Big Ag" right down to the small mom-and-pop farm?

They are all the true usurpers of ecology and environment alike.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Mom and Pop usurp the environment how again? Are our cows really as flatulent as you've been lead to believe? Do we not rotate our crops and rest and replenish our fields?
Monsanto is feeding you poisoned crops and genetically engineered garbage, not us. Geeze.

 

[Mr. H.]

Mom and Pop usurp the environment how again? Are our cows really as flatulent as you've been lead to believe? Do we not rotate our crops and rest and replenish our fields?
Monsanto is feeding you poisoned crops and genetically engineered garbage, not us. Geeze.

Everyone in agriculture should be held accountable and responsible. A single cow, a single chicken, a 20 acre plot of corn... all contribute to our environment's degradation.
Farmers and ranchers, large and small are all culpable.

That's how it works in the hydrocarbon industries, so suck up and take it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Mom and Pop usurp the environment how again? Are our cows really as flatulent as you've been lead to believe? Do we not rotate our crops and rest and replenish our fields?
Monsanto is feeding you poisoned crops and genetically engineered garbage, not us. Geeze.

Everyone in agriculture should be held accountable and responsible. A single cow, a single chicken, a 20 acre plot of corn... all contribute to our environment's degradation.
Farmers and ranchers, large and small are all culpable.

That's how it works in the hydrocarbon industries, so suck up and take it.

You suck it up. I'll be sucking it soon enough as a larger implication of fracking.

Methane leaks could negate climate benefits of US natural gas boom: report

Reduction in carbon emissions triggered by America's shift from coal to gas is being offset by a sharp rise in methane

Methane leaks could negate climate benefits of US natural gas boom: report | Environment | theguardian.com

Be nice to our German friend, he'll be profiting from our gas soon too. They aren't buying it as our export at export prices that would benefit our country. No. They are buying our gas, in the ground, at rock bottom prices and taking it from there, literally. And will be selling it back to us at necessary skyrocketing prices.

Foreign Firms Tap U.S. Gas Bonanza - WSJ.com

 

[Mr. H.]

You poor deluded moron.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You just don't want to look any further than your furnace.

 

[Mr. H.]

I look below the surface, to the source. It's my job.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I look below the surface, to the source. It's my job.

And our job is to mitigate damage to the source.

Fracking implications include the good and the bad. You focus on the good which is ok, but it's ok to explore what is happening that isn't so good:

Much of the land here was leased to coal companies previously. Most of these old leases state that if there is a lack of activity after X amount of time that the mineral rights revert back to the landowner and the lease is void. Also, these leases cover operations conducted by coal mining. Fracking isn't addressed or agreed to in those old leases.

The Gas companies are buying these old coal leases and taking advantage of the lack of gas operating restrictions in them to waltz onto to people's property and take over. Not below the surface, ALL of it. We're sick of the sneaking, lying opportunists taking whatever they want and us having to sue them to get it stopped.

Hess is involved in a plethora of these lawsuits. They are taking unfair advantage of the land owners, by thinking that an old lease between a landowner and a coal company gives them carte blanche to anything and everything they can get their hands on.

At the land owners expense, again, Hess has been told otherwise in court. It's tonight's lead story on the 11 pm news. If the fracking implications are as rosy as you seem to think, why do they keep losing in court? This decision is a big one for landowners. I'll let you know the details after the news.

 

[RGR]

I look below the surface, to the source. It's my job.

And our job is to mitigate damage to the source.

You don't have any job related to the oil and gas extraction business, and your locals aren't capable of even participating, they are that limited in their job skills. You said so yourself.

So you can't mitigate, don't understand mitigate, and are incapable of participating in any way other than as a lottery winner. And YOU haven't even been able to do that yet.

Hess is involved in a plethora of these lawsuits. They are taking unfair advantage of the land owners, by thinking that an old lease between a landowner and a coal company gives them carte blanche to anything and everything they can get their hands on.

That would depend on the lease. And oil companies are always being sued by the rubes, the kind looking for the same lottery winnings you are. And you have no experience whatsoever about what they want to get their hands on because you haven't signed the lease yet.

If the fracking implications are as rosy as you seem to think, why do they keep losing in court?

Your incoherence on what constitutes "losing" is almost as amusing as what you think fracking is about. If I short your landowner check by $100, and you "win" $50 of it back by me "losing" a lawsuit, who exactly do you think "lost", rube?

 

[Mr. H.]

I look below the surface, to the source. It's my job.

And our job is to mitigate damage to the source.

Fracking implications include the good and the bad. You focus on the good which is ok, but it's ok to explore what is happening that isn't so good:

Much of the land here was leased to coal companies previously. Most of these old leases state that if there is a lack of activity after X amount of time that the mineral rights revert back to the landowner and the lease is void. Also, these leases cover operations conducted by coal mining. Fracking isn't addressed or agreed to in those old leases.

The Gas companies are buying these old coal leases and taking advantage of the lack of gas operating restrictions in them to waltz onto to people's property and take over. Not below the surface, ALL of it. We're sick of the sneaking, lying opportunists taking whatever they want and us having to sue them to get it stopped.

Hess is involved in a plethora of these lawsuits. They are taking unfair advantage of the land owners, by thinking that an old lease between a landowner and a coal company gives them carte blanche to anything and everything they can get their hands on.

At the land owners expense, again, Hess has been told otherwise in court. It's tonight's lead story on the 11 pm news. If the fracking implications are as rosy as you seem to think, why do they keep losing in court? This decision is a big one for landowners. I'll let you know the details after the news.

You are dangerously stupid. As are the remainder of the anti-fracing ilk.

Film at 11? LOL

I'll wait up for ya.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I look below the surface, to the source. It's my job.

And our job is to mitigate damage to the source.

You don't have any job related to the oil and gas extraction business, and your locals aren't capable of even participating, they are that limited in their job skills. You said so yourself.

So you can't mitigate, don't understand mitigate, and are incapable of participating in any way other than as a lottery winner. And YOU haven't even been able to do that yet.

Hess is involved in a plethora of these lawsuits. They are taking unfair advantage of the land owners, by thinking that an old lease between a landowner and a coal company gives them carte blanche to anything and everything they can get their hands on.

That would depend on the lease. And oil companies are always being sued by the rubes, the kind looking for the same lottery winnings you are. And you have no experience whatsoever about what they want to get their hands on because you haven't signed the lease yet.

If the fracking implications are as rosy as you seem to think, why do they keep losing in court?

Your incoherence on what constitutes "losing" is almost as amusing as what you think fracking is about. If I short your landowner check by $100, and you "win" $50 of it back by me "losing" a lawsuit, who exactly do you think "lost", rube?

Good thing you are a pretend scientist as opposed to a pretend mathematician. We are talking $50 +millions and millions.

And I don't know why you think being knowledgeable about our business affairs can only occur after we sign, but it has turned out prudence and patience was the smart move to make.

Same leases, different viewpoint. The courts think that old, idle coal leases are no longer in effect and that the gas companies need to negotiate with the owners of the property, not the previous renters of it.

And because you keep saying that I said the local workers here aren't qualified, I am setting the record straight. "They can work or kick your butt under the table, and don't care which", is what I said about the more than capable workers here.

And lastly,
It's not me that hit the lottery BTR. We are the lottery! Whether we allow you to buy a ticket or not depends on your behavior.