U.S. Army should take control of American Govmnt, From President Obama.

[Vast LWC]

You sir, are a joke....not a good one, but a joke none the less.

Right, The Federalist Papers are mere ramblings. That's why the US Supreme Court has cited them with approval so many times throughout the last two centuries right? But, of course, your interpretation must be the right because you are some idiot on the Internet, right?

I think I'll listen to James Madison on what the Constitution says and you can continue to listen to those pesky voices in your head.

From Federalist 41

But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?

If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?

Do you get it yet?

Firstly, I noticed that you were too busy calling me a "joke" to even attempt to defend your ludicrous statement about the punctuation of the Constitution, LOL.

Nice attempt to change the subject.

Secondly, When you say "The US Supreme Court" you obviously mean "Some members of the US Supreme Court" as other members throughout history have been of other schools of thought, which is of course why Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc have never been struck down by the court on the basis of their constitutionality.

But why don't you just keep on calling other people "idiots" or "jokes" while making false statements and relying on hyperbole.

You see, I don't need to insult you back in kind, you're doing quite a good job of making a fool of yourself, you don't need my help.

 

[Vast LWC]

On this point, this is precisely what I said. The latter clauses describe the limited powers allowed the Congress under Article I, Section 8. The general statement is described by the more limited specific grants of power. So, you are perfectly correct when you say they do not contradict the first clause, because they were meant to give voice to it. Funny how it all makes sense when you read it like that and how it's stupid when you try to pervert its meaning, huh?

Ahh, here is the defense.

No, again, that would not be the case. If it were, then each of the following clauses, as they are also followed by semi-colons, would have to be a description of the specifics of the prededing clauses, which is clearly not the case.

Obviously, "Regulating Commerce" is not part of "Borrowing Money", and certainly "Establishing Naturalization Rules" has nothing to do with Regulating Commerce or Borrowing Money.

 

[Father Time]

Spoken like a true traitor.

All the shit we put up with with Bush for 8 ******* years, and now you are peeing in your pants in less than a year because the legally elected president isn't following your philosophy.

Like your side said during Bush's fucked up reign, if you don't like it leave. Americans vote for their president, they don't have the military run the governement you ******* traitor.

I might have heard or seen someone tell a really idiotic far left nutcase that maybe 10 times during the Bush years. But I have had some loony left wing nutcase tell me that at least twice that many times in the just past 12 months.

I'm not leaving.

I'm pretty sure he was talking to 52ndstreet, not you.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Spoken like a true traitor.

All the shit we put up with with Bush for 8 ******* years, and now you are peeing in your pants in less than a year because the legally elected president isn't following your philosophy.

Like your side said during Bush's fucked up reign, if you don't like it leave. Americans vote for their president, they don't have the military run the governement you ******* traitor.

I might have heard or seen someone tell a really idiotic far left nutcase that maybe 10 times during the Bush years. But I have had some loony left wing nutcase tell me that at least twice that many times in the just past 12 months.

I'm not leaving.

I'm pretty sure he was talking to 52ndstreet, not you.

Oh I'm sure of that too, But the point is that we've heard it so much more this past year than the past 8 years.

 

[Vast LWC]

Oh I'm sure of that too, But the point is that we've heard it so much more this past year than the past 8 years.

I'm sorry, I wasn't involved in that but, WTH?

Throughout the Bush administration it was "traitor this, traitor that" for any subject in existence. All from the right, aimed at the left.

Hell, Ann Coulter wrote an entire book about it. I believe the name of it was "Treason", you may have heard of it.

Along with all those BS cries of "Treason", there were endless repetitions of "America love it or leave it". The two went hand-in-hand. I think there are two country songs about that...

Now we have a thread that a rightie started specifically calling for the overthrow of the US Government, and you're complaining when the Lefties are throwing your own medicine back at you? LOL.

 

[Vast LWC]

Yeah, here's one of the counutry songs "America Love it or Leave it" by Ernest Tubb

Ernest Tubb / MP3 & Music Blog Songs / The Hype Machine

 

[SFC Ollie]

Love it or leave it is rather and old mantra. I personally am tired of hearing it from any side. Though I did invite one person in Yahell Chat to "make me" leave once. Of course they declined the offer.

It's really rather stupid, yes we all have the freedom to leave the USA. But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

Even if we have to keep fighting our own to keep them.

 

[maineman]

Oh I'm sure of that too, But the point is that we've heard it so much more this past year than the past 8 years.

I might suggest that the reason you didn't "hear" it the past eight years, is that it is hard to "receive" when you are also "transmitting". I know that I heard it much more during the Bush years from right wingers who couldn't stand the fact that anyone might think that their precious war in Iraq was anything but the greatest military move ever.

 

[maineman]

VAST LWC....

you obviously missed my post....as such, let me repeat....

i don't believe anyone has broken the law, they have not "levied" war....if i recall it is not simply calling for removal by force that is treason under the constitution and code, it is the actually levying of war....

While I see your point, it's a semantic one.

A military coup against the US Government would surely bring many deaths with it, and that would certainly be definable as a "Civil War".

Attempting to cause said civil war to happen is certainly definable as "treason".

without a doubt

 

[DiamondDave]

The Constitutional Dictionary - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
Try and understand what welfare actually means in the Constitution

Says that particular Consitutional Scholar, who obviously, by his own admission, disagrees with the way many other people interpret the document.

But, even if he is correct, and I am not saying he is, his interpration would specifically include the General Health, happiness, and prosperity of the United States as a whole. Which would, again, cover just about everything the Tea Partiers feel is "unconstitutional".

And as far as this goes:

And your conclusion of wealth redistribution going upward is ludicrous.. PERIOD... try looking at the tax rates and totals of tax burden..

What an idiot

First of all, I never said anything about wealth distribution going UPWARD. Try and read before you call people "idiots".

What I SAID was wealth distribution is going from Blue States to Red States.

The fact is that Blue States are RICHER than Red States. They pay more taxes, per capita, and receive less in federal funding, per capita.

This has been true for decades.

That particular scholar?? in most EVERY case it is WELL understood that general welfare is not and was not correlated to individuals receiving funds.... you sir, are a complete moron...
U.S. Constitution - Preamble
Welfare – The Definition of and the Constitution » Animal Farm
Madison on the Meaning of the "General Welfare," the "Purpose" of Enumerated Powers, and the "Definition" of Constitutional Government -- Sorenson 22 (2): 109 -- Publius: The Journal of Federalism
General welfare does not equate to individual welfare... try and remember that next time


Lest you also forget about little things called average mean salary and cost of living, then you can understand why someone living in a 45K house making 30K a year in Nebraska pays less in taxes than someone in a $1MIL condo in NYC who makes $400K... roads and parks and governmental buildings and everything else costs money to build and maintain in Nebraska just as it does in NY... even if the population is indeed less... not like the individual citizens of the 'Red States' are receiving direct handouts at the expense of another

 

[Vast LWC]

Love it or leave it is rather and old mantra. I personally am tired of hearing it from any side. Though I did invite one person in Yahell Chat to "make me" leave once. Of course they declined the offer.

It's really rather stupid, yes we all have the freedom to leave the USA. But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

Even if we have to keep fighting our own to keep them.

Well, I'd have to agree here.

I for one do not tell anyone, especially fellow veterans, that they should leave the country if they don't like what's going on.

I'm just saying I can see how some people may feel justified in doing so, after being on the receiving end.

 

[Father Time]

I might have heard or seen someone tell a really idiotic far left nutcase that maybe 10 times during the Bush years. But I have had some loony left wing nutcase tell me that at least twice that many times in the just past 12 months.

I'm not leaving.

I'm pretty sure he was talking to 52ndstreet, not you.

Oh I'm sure of that too, But the point is that we've heard it so much more this past year than the past 8 years.

Even with all the false cries of treason you must admit what 52nd is doing is either treason or very damn close.

I can't remember anyone on either side saying we need a violent overthrow right now, during the Bush years, I remember people saying we should impeach Bush, I remember some nasty things said about him but I don't remember anyone saying overthrow the country.

 

[Vast LWC]

That particular scholar?? in most EVERY case it is WELL understood that general welfare is not and was not correlated to individuals receiving funds.... you sir, are a complete moron...
U.S. Constitution - Preamble
Welfare – The Definition of and the Constitution » Animal Farm
Madison on the Meaning of the "General Welfare," the "Purpose" of Enumerated Powers, and the "Definition" of Constitutional Government -- Sorenson 22 (2): 109 -- Publius: The Journal of Federalism
General welfare does not equate to individual welfare... try and remember that next time

OK, first of all, the other sites you just posted are conservative sites that are simply more examples of the same school of thought.

The definition on the "Preamble" page actually appears to have been copy-and-pasted from the first site you posted.

But putting that aside for now... What you're saying is that you deny any other points of view exist on this subject, and then you're stating categorically that you know exactly what all of the writers of the constitution were thinking when they wrote the document?

Wow! You're omnipotent.

So then, tell me, oh omnipotent one, if what you're saying is true, and NO ONE disagrees with your interpretation of the words of the founding fathers...

Then why hasn't the Supreme Court ruled Medicare and Medicaid to be unconsitutional?

The ACTUAL TEXT OF THE CONSTITUTION specifically calls on government to "Support the General Welfare", and does not in fact go into detail as to what that means.

Taken by itself, "Support the General Welfare" covers everything the Obama administration has been trygin to do.

Lest you also forget about little things called average mean salary and cost of living, then you can understand why someone living in a 45K house making 30K a year in Nebraska pays less in taxes than someone in a $1MIL condo in NYC who makes $400K...

YES, that's EXACTLY right.

And, since the cost of living is less in Red States, WHY DO THEY RECEIVE MORE IN FEDERAL FUNDING THAN BLUE STATES, when they don't need as much, and don't pay nearly the amount in taxes that Blue States do, hmmm????

roads and parks and governmental buildings and everything else costs money to build and maintain in Nebraska just as it does in NY... even if the population is indeed less... not like the individual citizens of the 'Red States' are receiving direct handouts at the expense of another

And Blue States need money for things like sanitation, mass transit (to abate traffic), etc. But they don't get as much money, per capita, as Red States.

Now mind you, I'm not even complaining about it.

It's the people from the Red States that are screaming their fool heads off about how their tax money is going to some "liberal" welfare recipients in the inner city.

I'm simply pointing out that the whole premise is a fallacy.

 

[Vast LWC]

Oh, and Dave?

Again, calling someone an "idiot", a "joke" and a "moron" doesn't prove your point.

Proving your point proves your point, which you have not done.

 

[namvet]

Love it or leave it is rather and old mantra. I personally am tired of hearing it from any side. Though I did invite one person in Yahell Chat to "make me" leave once. Of course they declined the offer.

It's really rather stupid, yes we all have the freedom to leave the USA. But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

Even if we have to keep fighting our own to keep them.

But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

lots of places in the world. and ive seen them. millions of Americans live overseas. and dirt cheap to !!! a fraction of what it cost here. hence the reasons their there. including tons of retired vets. many of whom i talk to on email every day. if this deathcare pass's my wife and i are gone. to the relief im sure of liberals on here. all i do is make an overseas phone call and we're gone. I set this up right after the election.
and all my money is long gone to. it left this country the day after the election. no way in hell am i gonna allow some stcky fingered down town clown form Chicago touch it !!!!

 

[Vast LWC]

Love it or leave it is rather and old mantra. I personally am tired of hearing it from any side. Though I did invite one person in Yahell Chat to "make me" leave once. Of course they declined the offer.

It's really rather stupid, yes we all have the freedom to leave the USA. But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

Even if we have to keep fighting our own to keep them.

But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

lots of places in the world. and ive seen them. millions of Americans live overseas. and dirt cheap to !!! a fraction of what it cost here. hence the reasons their there. including tons of retired vets. many of whom i talk to on email every day. if this deathcare pass's my wife and i are gone. to the relief im sure of liberals on here. all i do is make an overseas phone call and we're gone. I set this up right after the election.
******************************************************.
No way in hell am i gonna allow some stcky fingered down town clown form Chicago touch it !!!!

Note the sentence I blanked out.

You do realize that's something you don't want to admit on a publicly accessed website, right? You may want to delete that.

 

[namvet]

Love it or leave it is rather and old mantra. I personally am tired of hearing it from any side. Though I did invite one person in Yahell Chat to "make me" leave once. Of course they declined the offer.

It's really rather stupid, yes we all have the freedom to leave the USA. But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

Even if we have to keep fighting our own to keep them.

But where would anyone go where they have as much freedom, or as many rights?

lots of places in the world. and ive seen them. millions of Americans live overseas. and dirt cheap to !!! a fraction of what it cost here. hence the reasons their there. including tons of retired vets. many of whom i talk to on email every day. if this deathcare pass's my wife and i are gone. to the relief im sure of liberals on here. all i do is make an overseas phone call and we're gone. I set this up right after the election.
******************************************************.
No way in hell am i gonna allow some stcky fingered down town clown form Chicago touch it !!!!

Note the sentence I blanked out.

You do realize that's something you don't want to admit on a publicly accessed website, right? You may want to delete that.

you already did !!! i don't give a rats ass if they know or not. its long gone. that's a fact !!!!

 

[Vast LWC]

OK.

We may not see eye-to-eye, but you're a vet, and I don't want to see you get in real trouble for something you put on a posting board.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

No worries namvet, Mine is gone too. Only, You should bring it back because it is not any safer in a Foreign Country. Mine is buried in a make-shift bunker in the Forest along with most of my Firearms. No way is my means of survival or self defense ever leaving this soil without a fight. ~BH

 

[Immanuel]

Oh I'm sure of that too, But the point is that we've heard it so much more this past year than the past 8 years.

I'm sorry, I wasn't involved in that but, WTH?

Throughout the Bush administration it was "traitor this, traitor that" for any subject in existence. All from the right, aimed at the left.

Hell, Ann Coulter wrote an entire book about it. I believe the name of it was "Treason", you may have heard of it.

Along with all those BS cries of "Treason", there were endless repetitions of "America love it or leave it". The two went hand-in-hand. I think there are two country songs about that...

Now we have a thread that a rightie started specifically calling for the overthrow of the US Government, and you're complaining when the Lefties are throwing your own medicine back at you? LOL.

Don't forget the constant recitation of President Bush's, "You are either with us or against us". I heard plenty of that leveled at you lefties during those seven years or so.

CNN.com - 'You are either with us or against us' - November 6, 2001

Yeah, here's one of the counutry songs "America Love it or Leave it" by Ernest Tubb

Ernest Tubb / MP3 & Music Blog Songs / The Hype Machine

Ernest Tubb?

You realize that he died in 1984 don't you and that song was not written for the occasion for which you seem to be indicating that it was written.

In fact, based on this album, it had to have been written prior to 1970:

Good Year for the Wine - Ernest Tubb & the Texas Troubadors Music - Yahoo! Shopping

Immie