two imams screen three times before being kicked off from plane

[Big Fitz]

Islamophobia is today's version of celebrated bigotry.

We had jap-hating, then moved to ******-hating, then it was gook-hating, now it's muzzie-hating.

History will handle our current views the same way every other version of bigotry is handled, as something horrible and immoral. Our children and grandchildren will mock us for our ignorance and be downright ashamed of us for it.

Hence why I'll stay in the minority and proudly say I fear no man based on his religion or skin color.

"When 100% of the terrorist are muslim, it ceases to be a stereotype and becomes a descriptor of the threat." Ann Coulter

We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say." --arguing that it would be better if we were all Christian -Ann Coulter

If you aren't christian, Coulter thinks you're a less valuable human being.

So? The fact that the quote you gave may be less comfortable does not invalidate my quote.

 

[Big Fitz]

You said that Delta should set policy to follow. I showed you the policy in black and white. When you purchase your ticket that is part of your contract. Who knows what happened, but the pilot saw fit to boot them for what ever reason. The pilots are responsible for the crew and passengers on their flights. The are not responsible for being politically correct.

As people defending the tsa continually preach it is not a RIGHT to fly, here you have it. You buy a ticket and the airline has the right to refuse you being on its aircraft.

Yes, they reserve the right on certain rational grounds... Simply being Muslim or "looking" Muslim is not one of them.

They essentially reserve the right to not fly anyone they don't want for any reason they want.

When I was in hotels and I saw a car pull up, empty out 7 'kids' the oldest being 21, and reeking of potsmoke, I often refused them service. Wouldn't let them past the lobby.

Was I discriminating? Damn right I was. I knew what they were looking for. A party room to trash.

If I saw a group of4 mexicans get out of a commercial looking van, I often rented to them, despite only having a Matricular Consilar card for ID because they'd be sleeping and leaving early. The biggest issue being used toilet paper in the bathroom corner (WTF is up with that???) and my breakfast bar being emptied.

I wouldn't rent to anyone drunk, stoned or acting 'weird' either because I would not feel safe with them in the hotel or fearing for the damage they would cause.

This is called using good judgement. If that pilot thought in HIS JUDGMENT that it was unsafe to haul these 2 men, then that was over right there. 300 other lives took precident.

 

[Dr.Drock]

"When 100% of the terrorist are muslim, it ceases to be a stereotype and becomes a descriptor of the threat." Ann Coulter

We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say." --arguing that it would be better if we were all Christian -Ann Coulter

If you aren't christian, Coulter thinks you're a less valuable human being.

So? The fact that the quote you gave may be less comfortable does not invalidate my quote.

Neither quote was ever valid, she's a proud bigot of everyone who isn't christian, she's the exact kind of backwards thinking I was talking about being against.

 

[TheBrain]

what is it? a suggestion?

It is the foundation of our government, but not a law.

I didn't realize that Delta Airlines is a government agency.

What this dimbulb seems to forget is that the First Amendment prohibits government from using certain criterion to use discrimination based on race, color, creed. Delta is not beholden to the same rule as a private entity. They can, within certain boundaries, discriminate against anyone they please BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOVERNMENT.

Private businesses has much more leeway.

Yep, I don't know when people started believing that the COTUS restricted ANYONE but the government.

 

[Valerie]

You said that Delta should set policy to follow. I showed you the policy in black and white. When you purchase your ticket that is part of your contract. Who knows what happened, but the pilot saw fit to boot them for what ever reason. The pilots are responsible for the crew and passengers on their flights. The are not responsible for being politically correct.

As people defending the tsa continually preach it is not a RIGHT to fly, here you have it. You buy a ticket and the airline has the right to refuse you being on its aircraft.

Yes, they reserve the right on certain rational grounds... Simply being Muslim or "looking" Muslim is not one of them.

They essentially reserve the right to not fly anyone they don't want for any reason they want.

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

2. See 49 U.S.C. § 40127(a) (2000) (prohibiting discrimination based on “race, color, national origin,
religion, sex or ancestry”); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b) (2000) (granting air carrier’s permissive refusal of passengers
and property if adverse to safety); see also 8A AM. JUR. 2D Aviation § 73 (2008) (describing air carrier’s
discretion to remove passengers for perceived security threats). Under 14 C.F.R. § 91.3, “the pilot in
command” is “the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft,” and according to 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b),
may decide to remove passengers from the plane. See 14 C.F.R. § 91.3(a) (2008); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b)
(2000).


https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=fb76830c45e0da3420f49f74783bbd83



The First Circuit held that the plaintiff passenger must show the air carrier's decision to refuse transportation and rebooking is arbitrary or capricious based on the information known to the decision-maker at the time of the refusal. 5

 

[syrenn]

Yes, they reserve the right on certain rational grounds... Simply being Muslim or "looking" Muslim is not one of them.

They essentially reserve the right to not fly anyone they don't want for any reason they want.

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

2. See 49 U.S.C. § 40127(a) (2000) (prohibiting discrimination based on “race, color, national origin,
religion, sex or ancestry”); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b) (2000) (granting air carrier’s permissive refusal of passengers
and property if adverse to safety); see also 8A AM. JUR. 2D Aviation § 73 (2008) (describing air carrier’s
discretion to remove passengers for perceived security threats). Under 14 C.F.R. § 91.3, “the pilot in
command” is “the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft,” and according to 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b),
may decide to remove passengers from the plane. See 14 C.F.R. § 91.3(a) (2008); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b)
(2000).


https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=fb76830c45e0da3420f49f74783bbd83



The First Circuit held that the plaintiff passenger must show the air carrier's decision to refuse transportation and rebooking is arbitrary or capricious based on the information known to the decision-maker at the time of the refusal. 5

Did they discriminate? I don't think so. They followed the rules. As i have said before pilots can boot anyone for any reason off of their flights.

 

[TheBrain]

Yes, they reserve the right on certain rational grounds... Simply being Muslim or "looking" Muslim is not one of them.

They essentially reserve the right to not fly anyone they don't want for any reason they want.

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

2. See 49 U.S.C. § 40127(a) (2000) (prohibiting discrimination based on “race, color, national origin,
religion, sex or ancestry”); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b) (2000) (granting air carrier’s permissive refusal of passengers
and property if adverse to safety); see also 8A AM. JUR. 2D Aviation § 73 (2008) (describing air carrier’s
discretion to remove passengers for perceived security threats). Under 14 C.F.R. § 91.3, “the pilot in
command” is “the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft,” and according to 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b),
may decide to remove passengers from the plane. See 14 C.F.R. § 91.3(a) (2008); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b)
(2000).


https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=fb76830c45e0da3420f49f74783bbd83



The First Circuit held that the plaintiff passenger must show the air carrier's decision to refuse transportation and rebooking is arbitrary or capricious based on the information known to the decision-maker at the time of the refusal. 5

You do realize that just because we don't condone discrimination in this country, that does no mean that any and all actions taken against a minority are discrimination, don't you?

I SERIOUSLY doubt this pilot had these men removed just because. For one thing pilots aren't even aware of their passengers identities UNLESS a flight attendant makes them aware of a particular person due to problems. These two yahoos did SOMETHING to get on the pilot's radar to begin with. Bet that.

 

[Valerie]

They essentially reserve the right to not fly anyone they don't want for any reason they want.

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

2. See 49 U.S.C. § 40127(a) (2000) (prohibiting discrimination based on “race, color, national origin,
religion, sex or ancestry”); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b) (2000) (granting air carrier’s permissive refusal of passengers
and property if adverse to safety); see also 8A AM. JUR. 2D Aviation § 73 (2008) (describing air carrier’s
discretion to remove passengers for perceived security threats). Under 14 C.F.R. § 91.3, “the pilot in
command” is “the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft,” and according to 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b),
may decide to remove passengers from the plane. See 14 C.F.R. § 91.3(a) (2008); 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b)
(2000).


https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=fb76830c45e0da3420f49f74783bbd83



The First Circuit held that the plaintiff passenger must show the air carrier's decision to refuse transportation and rebooking is arbitrary or capricious based on the information known to the decision-maker at the time of the refusal. 5

Did they discriminate? I don't think so. They followed the rules. As i have said before pilots can boot anyone for any reason off of their flights.

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

 

[TheBrain]

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

Did they discriminate? I don't think so. They followed the rules. As i have said before pilots can boot anyone for any reason off of their flights.

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that. What I HAVE said is that a business owner, or his representatives, has the the absolute right to refuse service to ANYONE, without cause. " I don't want to business with you" is legal, " I dont' want to do business with you because you're a Muslim" is not.

 

[Valerie]

Did they discriminate? I don't think so. They followed the rules. As i have said before pilots can boot anyone for any reason off of their flights.

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

 

[TheBrain]

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

I also have not seen Syrenn suggest that pilots should be able to kick people off planes for being Muslim.


let me ask you though. In all seriousness, do you not recognize that airlines MUST scrutinize Muslims moreso than other passengers? I mean that's a simple fact, and unless we ALL recognize it, we're in trouble.

 

[syrenn]

The discretion is indeed broad but the FAA rules maintain an anti-discrimination provision...



The FAA includes an anti-discrimination provision, section 44902(b) of the Act
grants air carriers broad discretion to refuse transportation to any passenger a
“carrier decides is, or might be inimical to safety.”2
http://www.law.suffolk.edu/highlights/stuorgs/lawreview/documents/Gallagher_Comment_WDFF.pdf

Did they discriminate? I don't think so. They followed the rules. As i have said before pilots can boot anyone for any reason off of their flights.

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

I did not say that Deltas discriminates for them looking ME.

I said that I would discriminate against anyone looking ME based on the terrorists track record. Again if it is the assertion that no one has the right to fly..... there ya go. Don't let them fly. If you do NOT have the right to fly then it has nothing to do with discrimination.

 

[gautama]

Islamophobia is today's version of celebrated bigotry.

We had jap-hating, then moved to ******-hating, then it was gook-hating, now it's muzzie-hating.

History will handle our current views the same way every other version of bigotry is handled, as something horrible and immoral. Our children and grandchildren will mock us for our ignorance and be downright ashamed of us for it.

Hence why I'll stay in the minority and proudly say I fear no man based on his religion or skin color.

Dr. Dreck,

My statement stands.

In spite of your verbiage, you cannot refute the essence of any of my sentences.

Final conclusion: You are a mindless MuslimArseLicking LIEberrhoid jerk.

Name one good thing i've ever said about Islam.

Just one

I'll wait patiently

Dr. Dreck,

Your "patient" wait is at an end.

Non-recognition of the OBVIOUS Islamofascistic Terrorism in the World, and defending the ESTABLISHED Muslim Terrorist Threat in the World in opposition to the VALID caution of the plane's pilot is an example of your MuslimArseLicking behaviour, you LIEberrhoid fool.

 

[syrenn]

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

I also have not seen Syrenn suggest that pilots should be able to kick people off planes for being Muslim.


let me ask you though. In all seriousness, do you not recognize that airlines MUST scrutinize Muslims moreso than other passengers? I mean that's a simple fact, and unless we ALL recognize it, we're in trouble.

I gave my personal opinion of who should be barred from flights based on the loud cry defending the tsa, that no one has the right to fly. Post 78.

Val and i have debated the tsa and their selective searches and how they search.

 

[Big Fitz]

We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say." --arguing that it would be better if we were all Christian -Ann Coulter

If you aren't christian, Coulter thinks you're a less valuable human being.

So? The fact that the quote you gave may be less comfortable does not invalidate my quote.

Neither quote was ever valid, she's a proud bigot of everyone who isn't christian, she's the exact kind of backwards thinking I was talking about being against.

Uhhhh huh. If your kids don't clean their rooms, you call them bigots too, don't you? Throw down the race card if they don't eat their brusselsprouts?

I do believe your demagoguery and comprehension of bigotry is a smidge skewed.

 

[Valerie]

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

I also have not seen Syrenn suggest that pilots should be able to kick people off planes for being Muslim.


let me ask you though. In all seriousness, do you not recognize that airlines MUST scrutinize Muslims moreso than other passengers? I mean that's a simple fact, and unless we ALL recognize it, we're in trouble.

This is a continuation of our exchange form the other day...Syrenn said it and several people agreed with it and I just posted the FAA rules showing there is indeed and anti-discrimination provision.

A pilot can toss anyone they want for any reason.They are the ones responsible for the lives of the crew and the passengers.

Personally i am all for anyone looking muslim or of middle eastern descent being barre from flying. Period.

Considering everyone keeps yelling "it is not a RIGHT to be able fly" how about that!!!

If its not a right to fly... glad they got kicked off the flight.

**** them.

 

[Big Fitz]

I don't know whether or not they discriminated or why they felt threatened by these men who had passed the physical screening several times. They may very well have been a legitimate concern for reasons not yet known to us...


I am responding specifically to your assertion that they reserve the right to discriminate based on solely being Muslim or "looking" Muslim.

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

Public forum. Anyone can respond. Otherwise take it to PM.

 

[Valerie]

Ma'am that is not my ascertion, nor have I ever claimed that.

I was responding to syrenn.

Public forum. Anyone can respond. Otherwise take it to PM.

 

[Dr.Drock]

So? The fact that the quote you gave may be less comfortable does not invalidate my quote.

Neither quote was ever valid, she's a proud bigot of everyone who isn't christian, she's the exact kind of backwards thinking I was talking about being against.

Uhhhh huh. If your kids don't clean their rooms, you call them bigots too, don't you? Throw down the race card if they don't eat their brusselsprouts?

I do believe your demagoguery and comprehension of bigotry is a smidge skewed.

big·ot·ry   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled
[big-uh-tree] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ries.
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Actually that's the definition of bigotry I go by, the child story was cute but an obvious deflection attempt.

 

[syrenn]

I was responding to syrenn.

I also have not seen Syrenn suggest that pilots should be able to kick people off planes for being Muslim.


let me ask you though. In all seriousness, do you not recognize that airlines MUST scrutinize Muslims moreso than other passengers? I mean that's a simple fact, and unless we ALL recognize it, we're in trouble.

This is a continuation of our exchange form the other day...Syrenn said it and several people agreed with it and I just posted the FAA rules showing there is indeed and anti-discrimination provision.

A pilot can toss anyone they want for any reason.They are the ones responsible for the lives of the crew and the passengers.

Personally i am all for anyone looking muslim or of middle eastern descent being barre from flying. Period.

Considering everyone keeps yelling "it is not a RIGHT to be able fly" how about that!!!

If its not a right to fly... glad they got kicked off the flight.

**** them.

You also refuted my assertion that pilots can boot whom ever they choose. I have given you the links for consent of carriage rules for Delta. They can boot just about anyone for any reason they choose.