frigidweirdo
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Fine, you go ahead and play little games. I'll just choose to ignore you.
Turkey shoots down Russian jet
- Thread starter Phoenall
- Start date
Fine, you go ahead and play little games. I'll just choose to ignore you.
frigidweirdo
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Firstly, Turkey is claiming the plane went into Turkish airspace ten times in as many minutes. If true then what do the Russian have? Secondly if this keeps happening, then Turkey is basically making a point that the Russians should fuck off out of their airspace and they WILL do something next time too.
Clearly in Syrian airspace? I'm not sure that this is clear.
The UK is a part of NATO, just like Turkey, oh, and the US.
Manonthestreet
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Think its been proven it didnt
Manonthestreet
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Update: here’s the radar picture showing both the Su-24 and the F-16 tracks. The violation was quite short (17 seconds). According to the Turkish authorities the Russian plane was issued 10 warnings in 5 minutes before being shot down.
Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria
They may both be lying but it appears Turkey is telling a whopper
Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria
They may both be lying but it appears Turkey is telling a whopper
frigidweirdo
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Next time, try writing it so I can understand it.
frigidweirdo
Diamond Member
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Update: here’s the radar picture showing both the Su-24 and the F-16 tracks. The violation was quite short (17 seconds). According to the Turkish authorities the Russian plane was issued 10 warnings in 5 minutes before being shot down.
Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria
They may both be lying but it appears Turkey is telling a whopper
And where did that come from? I'm sure I could draw a prettier picture.
Manonthestreet
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This radar map, released by the Turkish military (via the New York Times), purports to show the flight path of the Russian Su-24 Fencer shot down earlier today:
The “nub” of Turkish airspace, where Turkey claims Russia had violated its airspace is under two miles wide.
In fast-jet terms, crossing this area would have taken a matter of seconds, not minutes. As such, it appears that the shoot-down came after warnings were made to the Russian aircraft while it was near the border, but the engagement only happened after the Su-24 had violated the border, although in a shallow and most likely brief manner.
As for the type of aircraft involved, the Su-24 is a strike platform; it likely posed no threat to Turkish F-16s. Complicating matters further, Russia now claims that its radar data shows the F-16s entered Syrian airspace during the engagement. Russia Loses Attack Jet And Helicopter In Syria In One Day: Here's What We Know
The “nub” of Turkish airspace, where Turkey claims Russia had violated its airspace is under two miles wide.
In fast-jet terms, crossing this area would have taken a matter of seconds, not minutes. As such, it appears that the shoot-down came after warnings were made to the Russian aircraft while it was near the border, but the engagement only happened after the Su-24 had violated the border, although in a shallow and most likely brief manner.
As for the type of aircraft involved, the Su-24 is a strike platform; it likely posed no threat to Turkish F-16s. Complicating matters further, Russia now claims that its radar data shows the F-16s entered Syrian airspace during the engagement. Russia Loses Attack Jet And Helicopter In Syria In One Day: Here's What We Know
- Thread starter
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frigidweirdo
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The DRC has resources, however the war means the resources come quicker and cheaper, so the US is happy with that war.
Bleipriester
Freedom!
Green light for Russian pilots to blow up any attackers!
Russian Air Force Responds to Turkish Military Aggression by Increasing the Number of Airstrikes in Northern Latakia
"The Russian Air Force did not need to attack Turkey directly in order to retaliate; instead, they have responded to the Turkish military aggression with an increase in the number of airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains (Jabal Al-Turkmen), Kurdish Mountains (Jabal Al-Akrad), and the Prophet Jonah Mountains (Jabal Nabi Younis) of northern Latakia.
According to several battlefield reports from local sources in northern Latakia, the Russian Air Force’s SU-24 fighter jets and their MI-24 Hind Helicopter Gunships have already conducted three dozen airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains, Kurdish Mountains, and the Prophet Jonah Mountains, while following the same route their downed pilots took the day they were shot down by the Turkish Air Defense.
The field source further added that the Russian Air Force has been ordered to respond to any-kind of provocation next to the Turkish-Syrian border; meaning, the Russian Air Force has been given the green light to retaliate against any group that fire on their aircraft.
The Turkish government believes they have a moral obligation to protect the Turkmen people living in northern Syria (specifically northern Latakia, despite the fact that this territory is internationally recognized as Syria – not Turkey.
The Russian Federation’s president, Vladimir Putin, has stated that Russia will not militarily retaliate against Turkey; however, he did warn that any future attack on Russian military assets will not go unpunished."
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article...the-number-of-airstrikes-in-northern-latakia/
Russian Air Force Responds to Turkish Military Aggression by Increasing the Number of Airstrikes in Northern Latakia
"The Russian Air Force did not need to attack Turkey directly in order to retaliate; instead, they have responded to the Turkish military aggression with an increase in the number of airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains (Jabal Al-Turkmen), Kurdish Mountains (Jabal Al-Akrad), and the Prophet Jonah Mountains (Jabal Nabi Younis) of northern Latakia.
According to several battlefield reports from local sources in northern Latakia, the Russian Air Force’s SU-24 fighter jets and their MI-24 Hind Helicopter Gunships have already conducted three dozen airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains, Kurdish Mountains, and the Prophet Jonah Mountains, while following the same route their downed pilots took the day they were shot down by the Turkish Air Defense.
The field source further added that the Russian Air Force has been ordered to respond to any-kind of provocation next to the Turkish-Syrian border; meaning, the Russian Air Force has been given the green light to retaliate against any group that fire on their aircraft.
The Turkish government believes they have a moral obligation to protect the Turkmen people living in northern Syria (specifically northern Latakia, despite the fact that this territory is internationally recognized as Syria – not Turkey.
The Russian Federation’s president, Vladimir Putin, has stated that Russia will not militarily retaliate against Turkey; however, he did warn that any future attack on Russian military assets will not go unpunished."
http://www.almasdarnews.com/article...the-number-of-airstrikes-in-northern-latakia/
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Russia gonna turn the other cheek - for now...
Turkey Downing Jet 'Planned Provocation,' but Not Going to War
November 25, 2015: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane "looks like a planned provocation," but that Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
See also:
Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
Nov. 25, 2015 -- The surviving pilot of the Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey said the aircraft was not given warnings, contrary to what Turkish leaders have declared.
Turkey Downing Jet 'Planned Provocation,' but Not Going to War
November 25, 2015: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane "looks like a planned provocation," but that Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Lavrov said the incident will make Russia reconsider its relationship with Turkey. He canceled a planned trip to Turkey on Wednesday, but spoke with Turkey's foreign minister and the two agreed to meet in the coming days. Separately, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday that Lavrov told Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu in a phone call that in shooting down the Russian jet, Turkey's leadership "has, in essence, sided with" the Islamic State group.
A policeman walks past the Turkish Embassy with broken window planes in Moscow, Russia
Meanwhile, one of the pilots who parachuted from the Su-24 arrived Wednesday at a Russian base in Latakia after being rescued by members of the Syrian army. Speaking to reporters there, he denied that the jet had entered Turkey's airspace "even even for a single second" and insisted that the Turkish authorities had issued "no warnings whatsoever" to the plane before it was shot down.
The Russian Navy's large landing ship Caesar Kunikov sets sail in the Bosphorus towards the Black Sea, in Istanbul, Turkey
At an event Wednesday in Istanbul, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the plane crashed in Syria but was still inside Turkey's airspace when it was hit Tuesday Other Turkish officials said that the plane was as deep as 2 kilometers over the border for about 17 seconds, and that its forces issued 10 warnings that were ignored before they fired. Russia insists the plane never left Syrian territory.
US comment
See also:
Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
Nov. 25, 2015 -- The surviving pilot of the Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey said the aircraft was not given warnings, contrary to what Turkish leaders have declared.
Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin said he and fellow pilot Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov, who died by rebel gunfire on the ground after ejecting from the aircraft, were not given any visual or radio warnings. He said he did not fly over Turkish airspace because the crew knew the region "like the back of their hand." Turkey said they gave the pilots 10 warnings before shooting down the Russian Su-24 jet.
A war plane crashing in flames in a mountainous area in northern Syria after it was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border, is seen in this still image taken from video
The warplane was downed and crashed Tuesday in an area controlled by rebels trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally. Turkey said it warned the Russian aircraft 10 times to move out of its airspace before firing. "One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and [was] killed in a savage way on the ground by jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape. According to the latest information he has been picked up by the Syrian Army and should be going back to the Russian Air Force base," Aleksandr Orlov, Russia's ambassador in France, said.
A Russian Marine dispatched to rescue the pilots was also killed in the operation. He was aboard a helicopter sent to the contested area to find the downed pilots. Shoigu also announced Russia will deploy its most modern air defense system, the S-400 mobile anti-aircraft designed to hit targets at long range.
Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
frigidweirdo
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Your question wasn't worth addressing.
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Russia And Turkey Refuse To Back Down...
Russia and Turkey refuse to back down in row over jet downing
November 25, 2015 - Russia sent an advanced missile system to Syria to protect its jets operating there and pledged its air force would keep flying missions near Turkish air space, sounding a defiant note after Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet.
See also:
Russian provocations led to the downing of its fighter jet by Turkey
November 25,`15 - FOLLOWING TURKEY’S shoot-down of a Russian military jet Tuesday, Western leaders rightly addressed themselves to heading off an escalation between Moscow and a NATO member. In the process, they were not as clear as they could have been about where responsibility for the incident lay. So we’ll say it: The first shoot-down by a NATO member of a Russian plane in 60 years is the result of the reckless and increasingly dangerous behavior of Vladimir Putin’s regime.
Russia and Turkey refuse to back down in row over jet downing
November 25, 2015 - Russia sent an advanced missile system to Syria to protect its jets operating there and pledged its air force would keep flying missions near Turkish air space, sounding a defiant note after Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet.
See also:
Russian provocations led to the downing of its fighter jet by Turkey
November 25,`15 - FOLLOWING TURKEY’S shoot-down of a Russian military jet Tuesday, Western leaders rightly addressed themselves to heading off an escalation between Moscow and a NATO member. In the process, they were not as clear as they could have been about where responsibility for the incident lay. So we’ll say it: The first shoot-down by a NATO member of a Russian plane in 60 years is the result of the reckless and increasingly dangerous behavior of Vladimir Putin’s regime.
As NATO’s secretary general and a U.S. military spokesman confirmed, the SU-24 plane was struck after crossing into Turkey’s airspace; according to a statement by the Turkish Embassy in Washington, it was one of two planes that violated the frontier. Also confirmed by Western officials is that the Russian pilot failed to respond to 10 warnings.
Moreover, the airspace violation was not an isolated incident. Russian aircraft have repeatedly entered Turkish airspace since beginning operations in Syria in September. Russia apologized for one violation in October; in another case, it denied responsibility for a drone that Turkey shot down. NATO officials said the previous airspace violations looked deliberate — perhaps because they were not limited to Turkey. In the past several years Russian aircraft have invaded the airspace of and submarines have cruised the waters of numerous NATO and European countries — not to mention Mr. Putin’s outright invasion of Ukraine.
Mr. Putin claims Russian forces are in Syria to fight the Islamic State, but there were no jihadist forces in the area where the SU-24s were operating. Instead, they were attacking areas held by militias made up of ethnic Turkmen and backed by Turkey. Just last week the Turkish government summoned the Russian ambassador in Ankara to demand that Moscow stop bombing Turkmen villages, warning that “this could lead to serious consequences.” Russia’s response was to carry out new raids and to violate Turkish airspace.
Mr. Putin no doubt has been calculating that Turkey, like other NATO members, would not dare respond to his provocations with force. When he was proved wrong, like a bully unexpectedly punched, he resorted to lies and slanders: Russian planes were not in Turkish airspace; Turkey was defending the Islamic State; the attack was “a stab in the back.” That last phrase was made famous by another strongman, in Germany in the 1930s. It should give pause to those in the West who still cling to the notion that Mr. Putin can be converted into an ally.
Russian provocations led to the downing of its fighter jet by Turkey
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Oops!...
Turkey Has Released Audio of Its ‘Warnings’ to the Downed Russian Plane
Nov. 25, 2015 - The jet's surviving pilot denies receiving them, and insists he did not enter Turkish airspace
See also:
Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says
November 26, 2015 | (CNN)Turkey will not apologize for downing a Russian fighter jet it says violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in an exclusive CNN interview Thursday in Ankara.
Turkey Has Released Audio of Its ‘Warnings’ to the Downed Russian Plane
Nov. 25, 2015 - The jet's surviving pilot denies receiving them, and insists he did not enter Turkish airspace
See also:
Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says
November 26, 2015 | (CNN)Turkey will not apologize for downing a Russian fighter jet it says violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in an exclusive CNN interview Thursday in Ankara.
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Russia gonna turn the other cheek - for now...
Turkey Downing Jet 'Planned Provocation,' but Not Going to War
November 25, 2015: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane "looks like a planned provocation," but that Russia is not going to war with Turkey.
Lavrov said the incident will make Russia reconsider its relationship with Turkey. He canceled a planned trip to Turkey on Wednesday, but spoke with Turkey's foreign minister and the two agreed to meet in the coming days. Separately, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday that Lavrov told Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu in a phone call that in shooting down the Russian jet, Turkey's leadership "has, in essence, sided with" the Islamic State group.
A policeman walks past the Turkish Embassy with broken window planes in Moscow, Russia
Meanwhile, one of the pilots who parachuted from the Su-24 arrived Wednesday at a Russian base in Latakia after being rescued by members of the Syrian army. Speaking to reporters there, he denied that the jet had entered Turkey's airspace "even even for a single second" and insisted that the Turkish authorities had issued "no warnings whatsoever" to the plane before it was shot down.
The Russian Navy's large landing ship Caesar Kunikov sets sail in the Bosphorus towards the Black Sea, in Istanbul, Turkey
At an event Wednesday in Istanbul, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the plane crashed in Syria but was still inside Turkey's airspace when it was hit Tuesday Other Turkish officials said that the plane was as deep as 2 kilometers over the border for about 17 seconds, and that its forces issued 10 warnings that were ignored before they fired. Russia insists the plane never left Syrian territory.
US comment
See also:
Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
Nov. 25, 2015 -- The surviving pilot of the Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey said the aircraft was not given warnings, contrary to what Turkish leaders have declared.
Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin said he and fellow pilot Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov, who died by rebel gunfire on the ground after ejecting from the aircraft, were not given any visual or radio warnings. He said he did not fly over Turkish airspace because the crew knew the region "like the back of their hand." Turkey said they gave the pilots 10 warnings before shooting down the Russian Su-24 jet.
A war plane crashing in flames in a mountainous area in northern Syria after it was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border, is seen in this still image taken from video
The warplane was downed and crashed Tuesday in an area controlled by rebels trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally. Turkey said it warned the Russian aircraft 10 times to move out of its airspace before firing. "One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and [was] killed in a savage way on the ground by jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape. According to the latest information he has been picked up by the Syrian Army and should be going back to the Russian Air Force base," Aleksandr Orlov, Russia's ambassador in France, said.
A Russian Marine dispatched to rescue the pilots was also killed in the operation. He was aboard a helicopter sent to the contested area to find the downed pilots. Shoigu also announced Russia will deploy its most modern air defense system, the S-400 mobile anti-aircraft designed to hit targets at long range.
Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
It is slightly more complex than that.
Russia's primary objective is to stabilize Syria. If Russia gets involved in a shooting match with Turkey now then it will distract Russia from its objective. Russia has intensified attacks on Turkmen/IS in the same area where its Su-24 was shot down. The objective is to destroy the Turkish supported network that is stealing Syrian oil.
Once Syria is stable, Russia will have one more ally in the Middle East; this will better enable Russia to settle scores with Turkey should that become a desirable outcome later. Also, Erdogan is a dictator. His decisions may and may not be reflective of attitude of average Turks. So I think from Russian perspective, it will be best to wait it out and see what the future holds for Erdogan. Also, patience on Russia's part will garner sympathy from other NATO members such as Germany, France, etc. After all, a division among NATO members will be a desirable outcome from Russian perspective.
I think that is what the Russian strategy is.
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Putin layin' fer Turkey...
Putin Warns of Payback for Turkey Downing Russian Warplane
Nov 25, 2015 | The downing of a Russian Su-24 attack aircraft by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet on Tuesday posed the threat of more dogfights over Syria and dashed French hopes of a "grand coalition" with the U.S. and Russia to combat the Islamic State.
See also:
Russian Pilot Rescued by Syrian Commando Unit
Nov 25, 2015 -- A Russian military pilot whose plane was shot down by Turkey and crashed in Syria arrived on Wednesday at an air base in Latakia province after being rescued by a Syrian army commando unit, Syrian and Russian officials said. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told Russian news agencies that the man was rescued in a 12-hour operation which ended in the early hours on Wednesday and is now "safe and sound" at Russia's air base in the government-controlled area in Syria.
Related:
Russia to Deploy S-400 Missile System Near Turkish Border
Nov 25, 2015 -- Russia will deploy the S-400 air defense missile system in the Syrian airbase of Hmeimim, 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the Syrian-Turkish border, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced on Wednesday.
Putin Warns of Payback for Turkey Downing Russian Warplane
Nov 25, 2015 | The downing of a Russian Su-24 attack aircraft by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet on Tuesday posed the threat of more dogfights over Syria and dashed French hopes of a "grand coalition" with the U.S. and Russia to combat the Islamic State.
See also:
Russian Pilot Rescued by Syrian Commando Unit
Nov 25, 2015 -- A Russian military pilot whose plane was shot down by Turkey and crashed in Syria arrived on Wednesday at an air base in Latakia province after being rescued by a Syrian army commando unit, Syrian and Russian officials said. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told Russian news agencies that the man was rescued in a 12-hour operation which ended in the early hours on Wednesday and is now "safe and sound" at Russia's air base in the government-controlled area in Syria.
Related:
Russia to Deploy S-400 Missile System Near Turkish Border
Nov 25, 2015 -- Russia will deploy the S-400 air defense missile system in the Syrian airbase of Hmeimim, 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the Syrian-Turkish border, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced on Wednesday.
"The S-400 air defense missile system will be brought to the Hmeimim base at the decision of the commander-in-chief," the minister said at a meeting with staff. The move comes after Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 strike jet on Tuesday near the Syrian-Turkish border claiming that the jet violated Turkish airspace. Moscow denied the assertion. Russian aircraft are among the numerous nations conducting airstrikes in Syria. While Russian officials describe the operation there as "an anti-terrorism mission," U.S. and other officials have said the Russian strikes are designed to prop up the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
Russia plans to deploy the S-400 surface-to-air missile system, shown in this undated photo, to the Syrian airbase of Hmeimim, 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the Syrian-Turkish border.
This S-400 surface-to-air missile system can shoot down aerial targets at a distance of 250 kilometers (156 miles) and non-strategic ballistic missiles at a distance of 60 kilometers (37.5 miles). The system, an older generation of air defense technology, can also target as many as 36 targets simultaneously.
Russian President Vladimir Putin accused Turkey on Tuesday of being "accomplices of terrorism" and warning that the downing of the jet will "have serious consequences" for Russian-Turkish relations. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Wednesday that the relationship with Turkey has suffered a "damage difficult to compensate."
Russia to Deploy S-400 Missile System Near Turkish Border | Military.com
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Where do we go from here?...
What Happens Now? Military Experts Weigh Implications Of Russian Jet Downing
November 25, 2015 - Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country does not want an escalation in tensions with Russia after its jets shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane that Ankara said had strayed into its airspace close to the Syrian border. One of the pilots was killed -- possibly by a Syrian rebel group operating in the area -- a loss Russian President Vladimir Putin called a "stab in the back." To help understand the significance of the events, and what they mean going forward, we asked some of the world’s leading military experts and analysts to weigh in.
See also:
Russia Turns Antisocial Toward Turkey
November 25, 2015 -- Vladimir Putin said there would be "serious consequences" after Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane on November 24. True to the Russian president's word, Moscow has issued a slew of retaliatory measures and proposals following the incident along the Syrian-Turkish border.
Related:
Russia seeks economic revenge against Turkey over jet
Thu Nov 26, 2015 - Russia threatened economic retaliation against Turkey on Thursday and said it was still awaiting a reasonable explanation for the shooting down of its warplane, but Turkey dismissed the threats as "emotional" and "unfitting." In an escalating war of words, President Tayyip Erdogan responded to Russian accusations that Turkey has been buying oil and gas from Islamic State in Syria by accusing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his backers, which include Moscow, of being the real source of the group's financial and military power.
What Happens Now? Military Experts Weigh Implications Of Russian Jet Downing
November 25, 2015 - Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country does not want an escalation in tensions with Russia after its jets shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane that Ankara said had strayed into its airspace close to the Syrian border. One of the pilots was killed -- possibly by a Syrian rebel group operating in the area -- a loss Russian President Vladimir Putin called a "stab in the back." To help understand the significance of the events, and what they mean going forward, we asked some of the world’s leading military experts and analysts to weigh in.
See also:
Russia Turns Antisocial Toward Turkey
November 25, 2015 -- Vladimir Putin said there would be "serious consequences" after Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane on November 24. True to the Russian president's word, Moscow has issued a slew of retaliatory measures and proposals following the incident along the Syrian-Turkish border.
Related:
Russia seeks economic revenge against Turkey over jet
Thu Nov 26, 2015 - Russia threatened economic retaliation against Turkey on Thursday and said it was still awaiting a reasonable explanation for the shooting down of its warplane, but Turkey dismissed the threats as "emotional" and "unfitting." In an escalating war of words, President Tayyip Erdogan responded to Russian accusations that Turkey has been buying oil and gas from Islamic State in Syria by accusing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his backers, which include Moscow, of being the real source of the group's financial and military power.
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waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Will Putin apologize?...
Erdogan seeks Russian apology for trespassing Turkish airspace
Friday 27th November, 2015 - In an escalating war of words, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has refused to apologize for downing a Russian fighter near Turkish border with Syria and has, in fact, sought an apology from Russia for violating Turkish airspace.
Erdogan seeks Russian apology for trespassing Turkish airspace
Friday 27th November, 2015 - In an escalating war of words, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has refused to apologize for downing a Russian fighter near Turkish border with Syria and has, in fact, sought an apology from Russia for violating Turkish airspace.
waltky
Wise ol' monkey
Granny says, "Dat's right - neither one's tellin' the truth...
Turkey shoots down Russian plane: Physicists say both official accounts are scientifically impossible
Saturday 28 November 2015 - Dr Tom van Doorsslaere and Dr Giovanni Lapenta from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven say the plane was travelling too fast for Turkey's account and could not do the 90 degree turn Russia claims it did
Turkey shoots down Russian plane: Physicists say both official accounts are scientifically impossible
Saturday 28 November 2015 - Dr Tom van Doorsslaere and Dr Giovanni Lapenta from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven say the plane was travelling too fast for Turkey's account and could not do the 90 degree turn Russia claims it did
Two Belgian astrophysicists have questioned both the official accounts of how a Russian military plane was shot down by Turkey on Tuesday. Writing a blogpost for their university, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Dr Tom van Doorsslaere and Dr Giovanni Lapenta, said the plane could not have gone down the way either country said it had. The Russian warplane was shot down by Turkish authorities on Tuesday and crashed a few miles into Syria. Turkey said it gave Russia 10 warnings about violating its airspace before firing but Russia has dismissed these claims as “rubbish”.
After watching a video of the incident which was posted online Dr van Doorsslaere and Dr Lapenta said according to their calculation the plane was travelling faster than Turkey said it was. Turkey said the plane was in their airspace for 17 seconds but the physicists concluded that when travelling at a speed of 980 km/h (609 m/h) the plane would have crossed over in just seven seconds. From this they said it was extremely unlikely they issued ten warnings in five minutes because the plane travelling at that speed could cross 80km (50m) in 80 seconds.
A map released by Russian authorities purporting to show where the plane made a 90 degree turn
They said: “How could the Turkish airforce predict that the Russian jets were about to enter Turkish airspace? “Military jets are very agile, and in theory the Russian jets could have turned at the last moment to avoid Turkish airspace. “The warnings issued to the Russian pilots were mere speculation at the moment they were made.” But they don’t think Russian authorities are being entirely honest either. Russia has claimed the plane made a 90 degree turn after it was hit and it was actively trying to avoid Turkish airspace.
They explained that at that speed: “A change of course of 90 degrees can only be achieved with an object that’s many times heavier or faster than the jet.” They concluded: “According to our calculations, it is clear that both the story of Turkey and Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. “Estimates limit the violation of Turkish airspace to a maximum of 10s. Russia's claims not correspond to the laws of mechanics.”
Physicists say both Turkey and Russia are lying about the downed plane
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