Try being a small business and get insurance.

[veritas]

Negative Fudd...negative.
I spent the last 30 years serving my country....20 of it active duty Navy....and now 10 with DoD Civil Service.

You see Fudd.....when you earn something it just makes you feel so much better about using it to your own benefit. When you demand something because you think you deserve it and it's paid for off of other people's hard work it diminishes it's significance greatly and in my opinion it makes one a lazy ass. Next thing you know you will want the government to guarantee lifetime employment and 3 day work weeks.

But you see patek, you are getting a government subsidy. Despite your service and work yada yada yada, it's government. It's not private. So your argument falls flat.

No it doesn't. I earned the right to have it. You want it off of my dime and I say f*** you....you go earn it yourself.

I see reasonable civil comportment didn't stick as a quality despite your military service. In the context of this thread, your service and therefore your eligibility for tricare has absolutely no merit. The issue at hand was small business owners getting private health insurance. You have government insurance. Why you don't see what the actual premise is, is beyond me. But you may continue to argue with yourself and make the Navy look bad in the process. I won't hold it against them.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

But you see patek, you are getting a government subsidy. Despite your service and work yada yada yada, it's government. It's not private. So your argument falls flat.

No it doesn't. I earned the right to have it. You want it off of my dime and I say f*** you....you go earn it yourself.

I see reasonable civil comportment didn't stick as a quality despite your military service. In the context of this thread, your service and therefore your eligibility for tricare has absolutely no merit. The issue at hand was small business owners getting private health insurance. You have government insurance. Why you don't see what the actual premise is, is beyond me. But you may continue to argue with yourself and make the Navy look bad in the process. I won't hold it against them.

Carry on. Quite obviously you are NOT reading the complete discussion here therefore once again everyone here sees that you have a distorted view of the discussion in it's entirety. Funny how when you are shown to have a perceived flaw in your thought process you libs make veiled insults, denegrations and attack others for NOT agreeing with your particular views.....and god forbid....anyone asking you liberals to go out and earn something or serve your country......I'm surprised you haven't called in some of your board buddy attack dogs. Oh wait...maybe they have a life and are sleeping right now.

No wonder everyone in the country hates left wing loons and 21%ers.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

So you're a small business owner. Let's think about this situation for a moment. The federal government decides for whatever reason that it's going to take over your industry or compete with you. They are going to create a government run program that produces the same exact product/service you do. Yet, they are going to be completely funded by the tax payers. Which means they wont care about the costs or profits.


In what universe is health insurance a small business? And what service does it provide?

It takes money and redistributes it. The government is already much better at this.

Insurers are basically bookies.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...good one Van Jones. Thank you for revealing who you are.

 

[chanel]

The GOP plan calls for allowing competition across state lines. We have a small business in NJ and cannot join the NFIB insurance pool because NJ won't allow us to participate. We pay for two of our employees and the cost is insane. But as I posted before, small business owners like my husband would love to kick his employees off BC/BS and put them in a government plan. So will tens of thousands of other small businesses. The "public option" will become the ONLY option in a few years as private insurers are forced out of business.

I am in a union with Cadillac insurance. The public option will be a win/win for our family. Until the tax bill comes in.

If you want socialized medicine, this is the way to go. I don't.

 

[American Horse]

Those on this site that seem to find something wrong with all proposed healthcare reform are not small business owners trying to access affordable and good health insurance. The insurance companies take full advantage of an opportunity to make higher profit on a small insurance pool.

What are the stonewalling idiots on this web site doing for insurance.

I am guessing several are living at home and are still on their parents insurance. The problem is they are 45 years old.

If the small pools were expanded into "associations" as the Rs propose there would be an expansion of insurance companies to provide insurance for those associations. There would be no logic to try to compete by over pricing the competition. Churches (by denomination) would be an excellent example of a type of association to enable. Individual churches could then choose amongst a number of offerings within the whole denomination for competitive rates. Churches would just love to have this offered to them, making it easier to hold onto congregants for a lifetime (just lilke employers used to do). Anyone want to bet that church-goers aren't healthier than the average?

Trouble is, the Ds want nothing to correct the problems with healthcare because they want to hold the only hand. The MSM is enabling that be helping them to deny that by saying the Rs only want to maintain the status quo to help their "insurance company buddies". The truth is the Rs have the only ideas which could actually bring some price improvement to health care. The D approach is to maximise government involvement in health care in every possible way, the R approach is to minimise it by encouraging competition in every possible way.

Dental insurance is an excellent example of an adjunct to health insurance that the government has stayed out of which is still cheap considering the fact that most of us need it and procedures are fairly costly: A filling or an extraction might cost $90, a crown $500, a root canal a $1,000 bill. Customers who seek dental insurance probably do so because they plan on using it, their own dental experience being their guide. Once they have no need of it they can cancel with no dire consequences (they think) to their health.

Another very cheap insurance, provided by evil insurance companies, is life insurance. Everyone is going to die, but will try to stay alive if they possibly can, the exception being suicides, or those anticipating suicide as an out; the deliberate cause of death to collect a large premium. Right now a man of 68 can get a 20 year term policy for $100,000 for $176. per month. Multiply that out and the total premiums only come to 42% of the death benefit. The insurance company is betting a 68 year old man will live to be 88, and the 68 year old man is betting he won’t. They are also likely betting he will either become unable to or grow tired of making the payments and cancel before he dies.

The government, if it got into either of those two types of policies, would quickly cause them to be priced out of reach much like health insurance is becoming. For instance, a couple of ways would be to tax the death benefit as income, or to mandate dental implants as a standard policy issue. But a level of interference by government in either would have a deleterious effect. The Democrats have worked insidiously through the years to prevent competition, and to damage the image of the insurance companies so as to drive "public" healthcare services into their arms to be saved

 

[Oddball]

Those on this site that seem to find something wrong with all proposed healthcare reform are not small business owners trying to access affordable and good health insurance. The insurance companies take full advantage of an opportunity to make higher profit on a small insurance pool.

What are the stonewalling idiots on this web site doing for insurance.

I am guessing several are living at home and are still on their parents insurance. The problem is they are 45 years old.

My guess is that you're a total blithering idiot.

Ever heard of these guys National Association for the Self-Employed, dickweed?

Have you checked their policies. They are not very good.

You need to talk to your Dad and ask what he is paying to insure you. If there is any 45 year old living at home with their parents paying their insurance it would be you, DUDE.

You don't know jack shit about me, my business or my insurance coverage, asshole.

Like every other medical coverage package NASE's vary from state to state because of the stupid laws that prevent competition, dipshit.

But then again, you socialist dickheads know everything about everything and how everyone else should be living their lives, don't you?

Now, feel free to go autosex yourself.

 

[paperview]

Those on this site that seem to find something wrong with all proposed healthcare reform are not small business owners trying to access affordable and good health insurance. The insurance companies take full advantage of an opportunity to make higher profit on a small insurance pool.

What are the stonewalling idiots on this web site doing for insurance.

I am guessing several are living at home and are still on their parents insurance. The problem is they are 45 years old.

My guess is that you're a total blithering idiot.

Ever heard of these guys National Association for the Self-Employed, dickweed?

Have you checked their policies. They are not very good.

You need to talk to your Dad and ask what he is paying to insure you. If there is any 45 year old living at home with their parents paying their insurance it would be you, DUDE.

Exactly. Dude doesn't know what he's talking about.

The NASE has TERRIBLE policies. I looked into them, and found out how bad they were, and even talked to a few people that were royally screwed by them.

They front for Mega Life & Health insurance. One only needs to look around and read the horror stories.

Here's from the Ripoff report:
MEGA Life - NASE You will go bankrupt if you buy insurance from MEGA. Ripoff! North Richland Hills Texas

Ripoff Report: MEGA Life - NASE You will go bankrupt if you buy insurance from MEGA. Ripoff! North Richland Hills Texas

Here's a couple of other comments on the NASE/Mega:

1. 
   JordanL says:
   August 1, 2008 at 8:34 am
   After taking out a Mega health policy in 2000, through NASE, my husband had emergency open heart surgery in Jan ‘07. Of a $257,000 hospital bill, Mega paid $28,800. Everything that was not the ‘room rate’, surgeon, or anesthesiologist went under “Medical Miscellaneous,” on which Mega has an $18,000 payment limit. The “agent” who sold us the policy indicated our maximum out-of-pocket expense for catastrophic surgery would be our deductible + 20%.
   I am reporting them to the State of California Insurance Commissioner and looking for an attorney. This has bankrupted us.
   Reply
2. 
   Diane Osman says:
   October 20, 2008 at 8:14 pm
   Is there a class action lawsuit against Mega Life & Health? We own a small business and got Mega through NASE. The insurance is worthless as far as I am concerned. I can’t imagine why Nase does this to small businesses. I just had a colonoscopy & they charged almost $10,000 and Mega paid $1500. These companies screw each other constantly and put us in the middle. My daughter died of Leukemia and Golden Rule sued us rather than paying for her bone marrow transplant so I am quite used to what slimeballs insurance companies are. Anything I can do to Mega to join in a lawsuit or sue them myself–I am ready and willing. The latest joke is when I went to fill my Nexium–I have a discount card from the pharmaceuitical co. so it should cost $30-40 max. They wanted $175 per my insurance co. My husband won’t look into it so I have to. Please help. Thank you. Diane

More here: Mega & NASE health insurance question | Search Commander Blog - Scott Hendison

 

[veritas]

Exactly. Dude doesn't know what he's talking about.

Captain Obvious.

 

[Oddball]

In which states were those policies written??

As has been pointed out numerous times, the type and quality of insurance coverage one can get varies quite widely from state to state.

 

[editec]

If being part of a group is the path to cheaper insurance with more coverage then it follows logically that the cheapest insurance with the most coverage would be a single universal HC system.

And as with all HC insurance schemes the younger of us would pay too much to cover the shortages of the older who pay too little.

The benefit of this single HC insurance scheme is that no other insurer can cherry pick the young and healthy away from a more universal system.

 

[paperview]

I know a number of previous conservatives on the issue of Universal Health who are now in favor of it.

It seems a 'liberal' on this issue is someone who's been mugged by the Insurance Companies.

Sometimes, sadly, that's what it takes.

 

[Oddball]

Let's check the premise here...

Since when does anyone have any right to demand that the costs for something relatively expensive be paid by a third party??


And if insurance really is that big of a racket -which I don't doubt- where are all the horror stories from people getting stiffed on their auto, home and life insurance policies, too?

Oh yeah...There's no political agenda behind "universal" auto, home and life coverage, is there?

 

[veritas]

I know a number of previous conservatives on the issue of Universal Health who are now in favor of it.

It seems a 'liberal' on this issue is someone who's been mugged by the Insurance Companies.

Sometimes, sadly, that's what it takes.

Universal makes the most sense. With 51 sets of different laws for the states and DC, dog only knows what goes on for the territories and protectorates, it's a tangled mess of crap. That's 51+ sets of contract law. Once that gets cleared up, then there will be no need to "sell across state lines". Which is bogus anyway, because the few companies that do offer coverage have carved out their regions into virtual monopolies. they could easily set up shop in any state they want. It's just more paybacks from politicians that prevent it.

Then we'd have to cost index for different areas. NY would be more expensive than Idaho for example. But by and large it would be the best fix.

 

[Oddball]

Then declare medical insurance a free field of interstate commerce....That legislation could be written upon a few pages and fully read and digested inside of a day.

But that doesn't schlepp the r-r-r-r-r-responsibility for covering one's ass off upon Big Daddy Big Gubmint, does it?

 

[veritas]

Let's check the premise here...

Since when does anyone have any right to demand that the costs for something relatively expensive be paid by a third party??


And if insurance really is that big of a racket -which I don't doubt- where are all the horror stories from people getting stiffed on their auto, home and life insurance policies, too?

Oh yeah...There's no political agenda behind "universal" auto, home and life coverage, is there?

What a softball. The value of a home, car, or of a life insurance policy is known up front. The car and house is replaceable. You fix or replace for an agreed upon dollar amount. Life insurance is a finite contract, or rather an investment strategy.

But there are plenty of horror stories to go around for P&C as well. You're a fool if you don't think so. I could write a book.

 

[Oddball]

Right....Like I already posited.

We don't hear the horror stories because there's no political agenda to be driven there.

Now, why can't we get a simple bill that declares medical coverage a free field of interstate commerce?

 

[kwc57]

Your wrong Fudd.....I am insured fully. I have Tri-Care Prime and Tri-Care Dental and I pay about 500 dollars a year for it.

I read in that HR3200 or whatever the number is....small businesses will be exempt from providing health insurance for their employees because of the smaller profit margins they operate with.

You are telling me you have health and dental for $500 a year. Absolutely no fricking way. You are crazy. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Negative Fudd...negative.
I spent the last 30 years serving my country....20 of it active duty Navy....and now 10 with DoD Civil Service.

You see Fudd.....when you earn something it just makes you feel so much better about using it to your own benefit. When you demand something because you think you deserve it and it's paid for off of other people's hard work it diminishes it's significance greatly and in my opinion it makes one a lazy ass. Next thing you know you will want the government to guarantee lifetime employment and 3 day work weeks.

I appreciate your service. God Bless you. Earn it or not, your benefit is on the American taxpayer's dime who would like to be getting more back of what they pay in.

 

[American Horse]

If being part of a group is the path to cheaper insurance with more coverage then it follows logically that the cheapest insurance with the most coverage would be a single universal HC system.

And as with all HC insurance schemes the younger of us would pay too much to cover the shortages of the older who pay too little.

The benefit of this single HC insurance scheme is that no other insurer can cherry pick the young and healthy away from a more universal system.

The best example of that is what happened at Walter Reed Hospital a few years back, and continues; you remember.... What happened there is what to expect at any hospital administered by a bureaucracy; even military officers who were seemingly in charge there as the official heads succumbed to the bureaucratic malaise. This was a case of a government operated medical facility malfunctioning in the face of dire need:

Washington Post article Thursday, March 1, 2007

“A procession of Pentagon and Walter Reed officials expressed surprise last week about the living conditions and bureaucratic nightmares faced by wounded soldiers staying at the D.C. medical facility. But as far back as 2003, the commander of Walter Reed, Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, who is now the Army's top medical officer, was told that soldiers who were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were languishing and lost on the grounds, according to interviews.”

But of Course, Bush was in charge then, which points out one of the dangers; when a D is in charge we hear absolutely nothing except when it serves their political purposes.

 

[veritas]

Now, why can't we get a simple bill that declares medical coverage a free field of interstate commerce?

This is a complicated issue. Right now the states have all the power to regulate. So removing that ability would cause a stink from both ends, the states and the Federal gov't because of a SCOTUS decision 140 years ago.

You wouldn't believe how complicated it is to be a vintner and sell your stuff to people not in your state.......and that doesn't even involve contracts.........ai yi yi.

 

[American Horse]

Now, why can't we get a simple bill that declares medical coverage a free field of interstate commerce?

This is a complicated issue. Right now the states have all the power to regulate. So removing that ability would cause a stink from both ends, the states and the Federal gov't because of a SCOTUS decision 140 years ago.

You wouldn't believe how complicated it is to be a vintner and sell your stuff to people not in your state.......and that doesn't even involve contracts.........ai yi yi.

You are right. It seem like a difficult proposition to make all state mandates conform so that insurance companies could evaluate risk equally. Maybe some standard issue federal list of mandates, and then an open enrollment season could work, but as you said, it is a complicated issue.

It really is amazing to me, but Hillary Clinton seemed to understand (along with McCain) what needed to be done to calm the healthcare furor back during her campaign.