trusting America to hunks of shit

[Truthmatters]

I and other Americans will never "shut up" about this.

As long as our vote does not count because we believe the "wrong thing" in you mind we will not stop.

This will just get worse and worse and worse.

You may be willing to see your American right to vote manipulated because the people you see doing the illegal actions are on your side(for the momment) but I and many other good Americans will not.

Like so many of the other lies the neo cons have come up with you will believe until they start to take your freedoms away.

When it gets to that point you will join me and the other good Americans who are trying to save this country.

I just hope when you finnally wake up it wont be too late.

 

[Gunny]

I and other Americans will never "shut up" about this.

As long as our vote does not count because we believe the "wrong thing" in you mind we will not stop.

This will just get worse and worse and worse.

You may be willing to see your American right to vote manipulated because the people you see doing the illegal actions are on your side(for the momment) but I and many other good Americans will not.

Like so many of the other lies the neo cons have come up with you will believe until they start to take your freedoms away.

When it gets to that point you will join me and the other good Americans who are trying to save this country.

I just hope when you finnally wake up it wont be too late.

You and other "beaters of dead horses" and "battlers of windmills" will never shut up, you mean.

 

[Truthmatters]

That coming from a guy who hates freedom of speech is a compliment.

 

[Gunny]

That coming from a guy who hates freedom of speech is a compliment.

Okay, instead of you derailing every thread with your unsupported allegation, feel free to start a separate thread on "Free Speech" and I will be more than happy to spank your worthless ass again.

And when you DO start it, be sure to bring all your evidence to support your allegation.

 

[Annie]

Paper trail is most definately needed:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.00811:

One version:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:1:./temp/~c110ckbIlm::

H.R.811
Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)
Beginning
February 5, 2007

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

SEC. 2. PROMOTING ACCURACY, INTEGRITY, AND SECURITY THROUGH VOTER-VERIFIED PERMANENT PAPER BALLOT.

`SEC. 247. STUDY AND REPORT ON ACCESSIBLE BALLOT VERIFICATION MECHANISMS.

SEC. 3. ENHANCEMENT OF ENFORCEMENT OF HELP AMERICA VOTE ACT OF 2002.

SEC. 4. EXTENSION OF AUTHORIZATION OF ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION.

SEC. 5. REQUIREMENT FOR MANDATORY MANUAL AUDITS BY HAND COUNT.

`SEC. 321. ESTABLISHMENT OF ELECTION AUDIT BOARDS.

`SEC. 322. NUMBER OF BALLOTS COUNTED UNDER AUDIT.

`SEC. 323. PROCESS FOR ADMINISTERING AUDITS.

`SEC. 324. SELECTION OF PRECINCTS.

`SEC. 325. PUBLICATION OF RESULTS.

`SEC. 326. PAYMENTS TO STATES.

`SEC. 327. EXCEPTION FOR ELECTIONS SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC RECOUNT UNDER STATE LAW.

`SEC. 328. EFFECTIVE DATE.

`Subtitle C--Mandatory Manual Audits by Election Audit Boards

SEC. 6. REPEAL OF EXEMPTION OF ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION FROM CERTAIN GOVERNMENT CONTRACTING REQUIREMENTS.

SEC. 7. EFFECTIVE DATE.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yes Kathy it is.

These machines were designed by people who have made ATMs since their inception.

I really ,really cannot understand how these people could have designed voting machine sooo shitty and without a paper trail when they have designed near infallable ATMs which produce massive paper trails?

I cant help but think it was done on purpose especially when they stand up in puplic forum and Promise the election to Bush.

 

[Annie]

Yes Kathy it is.

These machines were designed by people who have made ATMs since their inception.

I really ,really cannot understand how these people could have designed voting machine sooo shitty and without a paper trail when they have designed near infallable ATMs which produce massive paper trails?

I cant help but think it was done on purpose especially when they stand up in puplic forum and Promise the election to Bush.

You do realize that in general it is the states that set up the voting process? Bills are now pending to ensure a paper trail.

As I've stated numerous times now, I think paper ballot is the most secure way to go.

Once again, it was democrats, not republicans in general that were all gung ho on computer voting.

 

[Truthmatters]

Tell me everything you now about the HAVA act?

 

[Annie]

Tell me everything you now about the HAVA act?

LOL! Tell me everything you know about the fall of Rome and the Peloponnesian wars.

 

[CockySOB]

I'll throw ya a bone, TM. Google "Bruce Schneier" and visit his website. Search his site for "voting" and read the mountains of information he's posted over the past decade or so on voting machines and the political process. While I'm no fan of some of Bruce's political ideologies and conclusions, his scientific credentials are beyond reproach.

BTW, the allegations made by Clint Curtis (your articles' source) were investigated and dismissed as unfounded. In fact, some of Curtis' allegations about another former co-worker were found to be patently false (he claimed a coworker was an illegal alien). And in 2006 Curtis entered the political arena as a Democrat trying to unseat Feeney (R-FL), and he lost. Frankly, Curtis' story smacks of political hackery and I don't buy it.

 

[Truthmatters]

Please link me up to all the evidence for what you say?

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.answers.com/topic/clint-curtis

this cover the case pretty well I think.

 

[Truthmatters]

After investigation, the Florida Department of Transportation demanded that Yang repay $97,000 in "questionable charges," but was unable to conclude whether Yang had engaged in intentional misconduct, largely because of poor recordkeeping and Yang's refusal to permit the FDOT to audit Yang's files directly during the course of litigation.

http://www.answers.com/topic/clint-curtis

 

[CockySOB]

Please link me up to all the evidence for what you say?

http://schneier.com then use the search on his site to find his articles on "voting" which includes his MANY articles on electronic voting machines and their multitude of weaknesses.

BTW, Googling for "Bruce Schneier" would also link you to other sources which affirm his credibility on topics of security which is why I recommended Googling his name in the first place. The more information a person has, the better their ability to makes decisions.

 

[CockySOB]

After investigation, the Florida Department of Transportation demanded that Yang repay $97,000 in "questionable charges," but was unable to conclude whether Yang had engaged in intentional misconduct, largely because of poor recordkeeping and Yang's refusal to permit the FDOT to audit Yang's files directly during the course of litigation.

http://www.answers.com/topic/clint-curtis

Care to expound on why the FL Department of Transportation would have anything to do with the voting machines? Last I checked, it was the Florida Department of State, Division of Elections which would be handling anything pertinent to Curtis' allegations.

Moreover, you're trying to tie two things together (the FDOT claim against Curtis' former employer and Curtis' reliability on all his allegations). This is a logical fallacy and further undermines the credibility of your argument.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sounds to me like he was right about Yang enterprises?

The co worker turned out to be a legal one yes but that may have just been a misunderstanding.

Now because they desided not to investigate Feeny doesn not prove anything to me after the Attorney scandal has shown how they have politised the DOJ.

 

[Annie]

I'll throw ya a bone, TM. Google "Bruce Schneier" and visit his website. Search his site for "voting" and read the mountains of information he's posted over the past decade or so on voting machines and the political process. While I'm no fan of some of Bruce's political ideologies and conclusions, his scientific credentials are beyond reproach.

BTW, the allegations made by Clint Curtis (your articles' source) were investigated and dismissed as unfounded. In fact, some of Curtis' allegations about another former co-worker were found to be patently false (he claimed a coworker was an illegal alien). And in 2006 Curtis entered the political arena as a Democrat trying to unseat Feeney (R-FL), and he lost. Frankly, Curtis' story smacks of political hackery and I don't buy it.

Schnier's site:

http://www.schneier.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Realm=whole+site&Terms=voting

a bit on Curtis:

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=10899

 

[Truthmatters]

On May 10 2001, shortly after leaving Yang and accepting a job with the Florida Department of Transportation, Curtis reported that Yang had overbilled the FDOT and hired an illegal alien.[3] Approximately a year later, on April 1 2002, Curtis and his supervisor were both fired, allegedly for violated FDOT policies.[4] (Although Curtis's supervisor later settled a retailiation lawsuit brought relating to her firing, Curtis reports that he did not sue because he "missed the filing deadline.")[5] During that same year, Curtis's accusations against Yang were the subject of a series of articles in the Daytona Beach News-Journal

http://www.answers.com/topic/clint-curtis

 

[CockySOB]

Sounds to me like he was right about Yang enterprises?

The co worker turned out to be a legal one yes but that may have just been a misunderstanding.

Now because they desided not to investigate Feeny doesn not prove anything to me after the Attorney scandal has shown how they have politised the DOJ.

Color me cynical, but I'm of the mind that most contractors to the government have major accounting problems which are usually overlooked as part of the political pandering game. Politicians whitewash or stonewall any investigation into the companies, and in return they receive campaign contributions or the like. So I'm not surprised that Yang International may have overcharged on some projects. But that is a far cry (and a whole different department) from Curtis' allegations that Feeney wanted Yang International to rig the voting machines. As it stands, Curtis' allegations of such matters were determined to be unfounded and dismissed after investigation.

Again, you're attempting to use a logical fallacy to give Curtis' allegations credibility where none is warranted. Deal with it.

 

[Annie]

Color me cynical, but I'm of the mind that most contractors to the government have major accounting problems which are usually overlooked as part of the political pandering game. Politicians whitewash or stonewall any investigation into the companies, and in return they receive campaign contributions or the like. So I'm not surprised that Yang International may have overcharged on some projects. But that is a far cry (and a whole different department) from Curtis' allegations that Feeney wanted Yang International to rig the voting machines. As it stands, Curtis' allegations of such matters were determined to be unfounded and dismissed after investigation.

Again, you're attempting to use a logical fallacy to give Curtis' allegations credibility where none is warranted. Deal with it.

Well said! Not the first logical fallacy today either. On another thread, the connection between this issue and 2000 elections just gets weirder and weirder.