Trump is the ultimate fail for pandemic responses, while China did a great job.

[miketx]

US leading the world in number of infected.

 

[koshergrl]

US leading the world in number of infected.

View attachment 316097

 

[blackhawk]

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, it's TRUMP's fault...

Union Locates 39 Million N95 Masks for Healthcare Workers, Local Governments

Service Employees International Union United Healthcare Workers West announced Thursday that it located 39 million N95 masks and will make them available to state and local governments and health care systems that are fighting the novel coronavirus outbreak. The union found a distributor with...

www.nbcbayarea.com

 

[koshergrl]

Blame Trump!

Gov. Andrew Cuomo Admits Stockpile of Thousands of Unused Ventilators

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo acknowledged Friday that the state did have a stockpile of unused ventilators.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Pogo]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

 

[Fueri]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers. Given that my point, was and is that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers I guess I don't actually care what the 'numerical' difference is, or might be, or whatever.

 

[Pogo]

As U.S. tops global tally of coronavirus cases, Trump is at odds with reality We have now surpassed China for Coronavirus cases and our population is lower. Go figure. Just proves how well their leadership has tackled this virus with their mandatory quarantines and preparedness. The lack of interest in this pandemic by Trump has taken its toll with loss of life, coupled with all the lies that lead the people in the wrong direction with their preparedness. He told his base it was a hoax for Gods sake, and they said it doesn't exist. Add that with the failure to not declare the defense production act, 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are going to look like a scratch in comparison, if Trump doesn't act, or gets the hell out of the way. Having bidding wars with companies to make masks is insane for example. They are bidding over making money, while people die. To hell with that failure. The defense production act has to happen yesterday. Trump with this ultimate failure of his, has done enough damage already. Can you believe it, he wants everybody to get together to go find the easter bunny, a few Sundays from now because it will be beautiful. In the mean time, people are dropping like flies, because we either are in short supply, or have no masks, gloves, or ventilators. But ha, let's all walk out of church together on easter Sunday and have an easter egg hunt. What a sick, selfish. monster he is.

Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live

More about the MSNBC Rachel Maddow Show airing weeknights at 9 PM. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight or online with updated video & episodes at MSNBC.

www.msnbc.com

States fight for supplies in absence of federal coordination

Rachel Maddow looks at how the lack of federal leadership on seeing to the medical equipment needs of the states has states competing against each other and even other countries, driving up prices.

www.msnbc.com

Our numbers only represent the numbers that have been TESTED. The actual numbers of people with the virus are much higher, not just here but everywhere, ESPECIALLY in China.

Trump is doing a great job. My niece is an ER doctor. She said that during H1N1 the city hospitals were a WAR ZONE and this is nothing like that.

This entire nightmare is nothing more than the democrats waging biological warfare on the American people, then using it as an excuse to seize control of our food supplies, our economy, and our housing.

We will probably be going to war. I hope you're prepared because there are a lot of people who are looking forward to setting things straight in this country, and they are ready now.

 

[Pogo]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Simple matter of not-existence.

I'm reminded of God.

 

[Fueri]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

no, actually we don't know any such thing.

If you'd like to make it about that go ahead, although given that my point was, and is, that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers that's a completely different conversation.

 

[Pogo]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

no, actually we don't know any such thing.

If you'd like to make it about that go ahead, although given that my point was, and is, that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers that's a completely different conversation.

Yeah it is. Whether the omission is intentional or not, it's the same omission, isn't it.
That's what I pointed out in the first place. Underlying motivations, or lack thereof, are irrelevant to that.
So while uncertain numbers in both cases might be not valid comparators due to the uncertainty, they're not INvalid comparitors just because one entity tested and dismissed the results and the other entity didn't test. The end result either way is identical.

If you say you counted the number of trees you see but you won't say how many you saw, and I say I didn't bother to count the trees, we both reported the same number of trees.

 

[Andylusion]

As U.S. tops global tally of coronavirus cases, Trump is at odds with reality We have now surpassed China for Coronavirus cases and our population is lower. Go figure. Just proves how well their leadership has tackled this virus with their mandatory quarantines and preparedness. The lack of interest in this pandemic by Trump has taken its toll with loss of life, coupled with all the lies that lead the people in the wrong direction with their preparedness. He told his base it was a hoax for Gods sake, and they said it doesn't exist. Add that with the failure to not declare the defense production act, 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are going to look like a scratch in comparison, if Trump doesn't act, or gets the hell out of the way. Having bidding wars with companies to make masks is insane for example. They are bidding over making money, while people die. To hell with that failure. The defense production act has to happen yesterday. Trump with this ultimate failure of his, has done enough damage already. Can you believe it, he wants everybody to get together to go find the easter bunny, a few Sundays from now because it will be beautiful. In the mean time, people are dropping like flies, because we either are in short supply, or have no masks, gloves, or ventilators. But ha, let's all walk out of church together on easter Sunday and have an easter egg hunt. What a sick, selfish. monster he is.

Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live

More about the MSNBC Rachel Maddow Show airing weeknights at 9 PM. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight or online with updated video & episodes at MSNBC.

www.msnbc.com

States fight for supplies in absence of federal coordination

Rachel Maddow looks at how the lack of federal leadership on seeing to the medical equipment needs of the states has states competing against each other and even other countries, driving up prices.

www.msnbc.com

Yeah, China can also walk people out of the city, and shoot them, to contain the virus. China can also block off entire cities, and starve them to contain a virus.

China can force a hundred people to build a hospital in a week, for $1 a day.

You morons need to be a bit more careful when celebrating the brilliance of China, and the limited ability of the US government which operates under a fundamental belief in the rights of individuals.

Pretty stupid argument.

Rights of individuals gathering in large crowds is getting them sick, and in many cases dead. I'm not sure what "rights" you get to enjoy after that? But, you are right about one thing though, I damn sure am going to be a "bit more careful" about listening to anything you have to say. I, like you, enjoy my rights, and to hell with being stupid and giving them up to coronavirus. I'm going to exercise my rights by using my brain. Thanks for the advise.

But you understand that every single abusive dictator in the world, has used your logic right there, as why they are allowed to harm the public.

By your logic, we should just re-institute slavery, and make everyone wards of the state. After all, if people have rights, they could do something that causes harm! So lets get rid of all those dangerous rights they have.

If you want to be a slave for life, so you can avoid a cough, that's your choice to do so. Don't impose your dictatorship on me, thanks.

The US has a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet as we support 73% of the world's dicatorships. Are you this stunningly unaware?

The pandemic shows yet again that we people have no representation in our political system, by design. Our political class simply does not care, has no need to, and our political system selects for charlatans to be in those positions and leave us to the whims of concentrated capital. That’s their role in society; that of the little Eichmann.

Our “exceptional” self-aggrandized american “way of life” has been exposed to be the fraud it has always been now. Our “representatives”, our “leaders”, pimps really, hid from the public that a pandemic was coming while they informed the donor class; the substantial people and these pimps all got their insider trading wrapped up, sodomizing the 401k working and underclasses like they bipartisanly sodomized children in the Epstein/Maxwell (who was allowed to slither back off into the shadows so as not to further embarrass the aristocracy) child sex trafficking operation over decades.

What’s the feckless, impotent self-serving response of our ruling aristocracy? Double down on more of the SOS and await a different outcome; evermore societal wealth redistribution upward, fewer of the masses to deal with after the first of the COVID-19 retroviral waves rolls through society, and blame China for the inevitable ramifications of how we organize our society. We left ourselves wide open. Our societal priorities have consequences. They’ve come home to roost. Those who made the decisions will be impacted least, they will get priority access to testing and treatment, and they have tax payer funded healthcare. Win win as the moneychangers like to say.

We have a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet, supporting 73% of the world’s dictatorships. We have the most expansive incarceration apparatus ever known to humankind locking down 25% of the world’s incarcerated population versus our comprising 5% of global population. We have militarized “law” enforcement. The entire population is under constant mass corporate state surveillance. We have for profit internment/concentration camps up and running, easily anyone can be targeted for inclusion, americans being so easily turned on one another. The corporate state media machine has been monopolized down to half a dozen multinational corporations spinning spectacle and illusion at a level of efficiency Edward L Bernays could never have imagined given the technology of his day. We can whip up an endless stream of illegal unconstitutional wars without end, Amen, Amen, while no one asks "how we gonna pay for that?". But America simply cannot get it’s shit together on this pandemic, and this was by bipartisanly achieved over time via neoliberal economic fantasy and a lean six sigma approach to life itself.

It has never been clearer who our economic/political system serves, it has never been we the people. We are all tacitly complicit in cooperating with and participating in a death cult for Wall Street returns paradigm. We the people know what our "representatives" are. Predators.

The US has a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet as we support 73% of the world's dicatorships. Are you this stunningly unaware?

So couple of things there.

First, you are supporting dictatorship in the US.... so why would you care if we support or don't support, other dictatorships?

Second, I said evil dictatorships. Not all governments are evil, even if they are affectively a dictatorship.

Third, You whine about the US military having a presence in 70% of the nations.... but then decry Trump who has actively tried to reduce our military presence around the world.

Fourth, we only have operational military bases in 60 some countries. Not 70% of the nations of the world. The ignorant left-wing, is including military personnel that are deployed, often as liaisons to the military operating in those countries. This is mutually beneficial, so that we do not mistake movements by another country as being hostile, or them mistaking our movements as being hostile.

Fifth, you can make the argument that we should not have those 60 some operational military bases. The counter is that us pulling back already, has had negative impact on world peace. Tensions between Japan and China have already risen quite a bit, with Japan having already made changes to the limitations on the scope of Japan's military in combat roles. I can almost guarantee that if we had troops stationed in Ukraine, that Russia would not be in the Ukraine today. And if we pulled out of South Korea, North Korea would already be at war. And we already know that if we had not deployed troops into Columbia, that Venezuela would have attacked Columbia, and there would have been war in South America.

You can make the argument we should reduce our world presence, but that would be an uphill argument to make, given how clearly our forces have maintained peace.

The pandemic shows yet again that we people have no representation in our political system, by design.

Bull crap. Every time I turn around, the public is getting pretty much what they ask for. Name something the public wanted, and didn't get?

sodomizing the 401k

The number of stocks I own today, is greater than it was last year, or even a month ago. No one can still your property. No one has lost anything.

they bipartisanly sodomized children in the Epstein/Maxwell (who was allowed to slither back off into the shadows so as not to further embarrass the aristocracy) child sex trafficking operation over decades

Then next time you have a Bill Clinton, who is openly, and provably raping people.... vote him out.
Next time you have a guy drive his car into a pond, and kill an intern he left in the car, while he stumbled drunk back to his apartment, and didn't call police until the next day, vote him out.

You can't blame government, when it is the public who are supporting these people.

Next time a guy robs a convenience store, attacks a police officer, and grabs for his gun and get's shot... praise the police officer. You can't march through New York, chanting we want dead cops, and then complain about criminals in public office.

If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.

Our “exceptional” self-aggrandized american “way of life” has been exposed to be the fraud it has always been now

Really? Because last I looked, we still had millions of immigrants trying to get into this country. Why are they trying to get here, if this is a fraud?

Have you been to Europe? I have. We have a better standard of living here with our "Fraud way of life", than they do.

The only people who think the American way of life is a fraud, are stupid people who don't know how the rest of the planet lives.

You are totally lost to the wilderness with your ridiculous responses. The reason why we should care about dictatorships that we create, is because we affect the lives of millions. When we inject our influence and control, it steals politics, resources, and peoples lives and livelihood. And why should we care about that? Because those people become illegal immigrants and refugees from our own making, that you conveniently complain about. That's why they try and get into this country. Because our government takeover stole everything they ever had, or would have. So yes, we live by way of a fraud, lies, and exploitation of others. And all we do is make cowardly ass excuses for it, just like you are doing now.

You are wrong on all of that. What a ridiculous response.

We steal people's lives and livelihoods? Really? Then why are they all trying to trade with the US?
We steal their politics? Yeah? Name one.
We steal their resources? Isn't that funny how you flip flop on that concept over and over?

We steal their resources, so we shouldn't trade with them.

Then we refuse to trade with them, like Venezuela, and you claim we're destroying them.

So if we do trade, that's bad. But if we don't trade... that's bad.

You people flip flop all over the place.

Because our government takeover stole everything they ever had, or would have

Again, factually garbage. You live a better life in the US, than anywhere else in the world. Stop being a spoiled brat.

 

[Markle]

US leading the world in number of infected.

View attachment 316097

 

[Fueri]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

no, actually we don't know any such thing.

If you'd like to make it about that go ahead, although given that my point was, and is, that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers that's a completely different conversation.

Yeah it is. Whether the omission is intentional or not, it's the same omission, isn't it.
That's what I pointed out in the first place. Underlying motivations, or lack thereof, are irrelevant to that.

It is the same conceptually, however, we don't know the multipliers or the variables that are feeding the actual totals here vs there, as we are in different places along our respective continuums and for a host of other reasons, so it's hard to say it's just the same omission- as the actual numbers may very well be different.

So, conceptually we can say that neither is properly/comprehensively reporting asymptomatic cases, as we're not, so that is the same conceptually speaking, but numerically I don't think we can assume the numbers are the same.

The math is a major tool in this situation in terms of what we can expect and how to plan going forward here. I think we can make assumptions that underlying transmission rates etc. are fairly similar and do some modeling, ok, but empirical data is always better and this is a new situation, making it even more important that the data we do have is as accurate as possible.

By doing this, IMO, they are throwing out valuable empirical data that analysts all over the world could be using to help all of us get a better handle on the math of this thing. I just don't get what the problem is with their just accurately reporting what they actually know. I can guess, but that's speculation.....

 

[Pogo]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

no, actually we don't know any such thing.

If you'd like to make it about that go ahead, although given that my point was, and is, that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers that's a completely different conversation.

Yeah it is. Whether the omission is intentional or not, it's the same omission, isn't it.
That's what I pointed out in the first place. Underlying motivations, or lack thereof, are irrelevant to that.

It is the same conceptually, however, we don't know the multipliers or the variables that are feeding the actual totals here vs there, as we are in different places along our respective continuums and for a host of other reasons, so it's hard to say it's just the same omission- as the actual numbers may very well be different.

So, conceptually we can say that neither is properly/comprehensively reporting asymptomatic cases, as we're not, so that is the same conceptually speaking, but numerically I don't think we can assume the numbers are the same.

The math is a major tool in this situation in terms of what we can expect and how to plan going forward here. I think we can make assumptions that underlying transmission rates etc. are fairly similar and do some modeling, ok, but empirical data is always better and this is a new situation, making it even more important that the data we do have is as accurate as possible.

By doing this, IMO, they are throwing out valuable empirical data that analysts all over the world could be using to help all of us get a better handle on the math of this thing. I just don't get what the problem is with their just accurately reporting what they actually know. I can guess, but that's speculation.....

The numbers in both cases are certainly unknown, due to testing being anything less than universal. But they're not different from each other on the basis of WHY they're unknown/unreported. The difference amounts to, one set of numbers is unreported because its knowers don't report it, the other is unreported because it was never ascertained. In BOTH cases a disservice is done to the effort to control infections, since we know that some number (doesn't matter how many) of infected carriers are showing no symptoms, and when they're unidentified, they can't be isolated, and the virus cannot be contained.

 

[Fueri]

It would appear China is misrepresenting its numbers by not counting asymptomatic cases.

Color me shocked. China's government lie for its own benefit while misleading the rest of the world? Nevah' I tell you! Nevah!

We can trust nothing, NOTHING that comes from the Chinese government which has done nothing but lie from the jump, and they are lying now.

I suspected it and said it when suddenly they simply had no new cases, which defied any reasonable explanation, but now it has been verified.

Mystery In Wuhan: Recovered Coronavirus Patients Test Negative ... Then Positive

NPR interviewed four residents of Wuhan who contracted the virus, recovered — but then had a retest that turned positive. What does that mean for China's recovery from COVID-19?

www.npr.org

"Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts.

"I have no idea why the authorities choose not to count [asymptomatic] cases in the official case count. I am baffled," said one of the Wuhan doctors who had a second positive test after recovering."

As long as we restrict testing to only those with symptoms --- we're doing the same thing.
Or did you not think of that?

No, I agree we are not counting anywhere near the actual number and in other posts I've indicated that this is anywhere from 10-30X actual reported cases according to epidemiologists, but we're not flat out throwing positives out of our totals, at least I haven't seen anything to indicate that.

In that article one doctor says he sees a dozen of those asymptomatic cases which are not being reported per day.

There's a big difference between not having a positive result and therefore not throwing it in the totals and throwing positive results out of the totals. Even their doctors apparently don't understand that one.

One is a known flaw in the comprehensiveness of the detection system, the other is flat out lying.

If Group A fails to report asymptomatic infections because it never tested for them, and Group B fails to report asymptomatic infections because it did test for them and discounted the results, the difference is what?

The difference is intentional misrepresentation of numbers.

No, I mean what's the numerical difference?

We don't know, as we'd have to model our numbers.

Of course we know. The difference is ZERO. Doesn't matter WHY the numbers are not present --- if they're not present, then they're not present. Simple matter of not-existence.

no, actually we don't know any such thing.

If you'd like to make it about that go ahead, although given that my point was, and is, that they are intentionally misrepresenting their numbers that's a completely different conversation.

Yeah it is. Whether the omission is intentional or not, it's the same omission, isn't it.
That's what I pointed out in the first place. Underlying motivations, or lack thereof, are irrelevant to that.

It is the same conceptually, however, we don't know the multipliers or the variables that are feeding the actual totals here vs there, as we are in different places along our respective continuums and for a host of other reasons, so it's hard to say it's just the same omission- as the actual numbers may very well be different.

So, conceptually we can say that neither is properly/comprehensively reporting asymptomatic cases, as we're not, so that is the same conceptually speaking, but numerically I don't think we can assume the numbers are the same.

The math is a major tool in this situation in terms of what we can expect and how to plan going forward here. I think we can make assumptions that underlying transmission rates etc. are fairly similar and do some modeling, ok, but empirical data is always better and this is a new situation, making it even more important that the data we do have is as accurate as possible.

By doing this, IMO, they are throwing out valuable empirical data that analysts all over the world could be using to help all of us get a better handle on the math of this thing. I just don't get what the problem is with their just accurately reporting what they actually know. I can guess, but that's speculation.....

The numbers in both cases are certainly unknown, due to testing being anything less than universal. But they're not different from each other on the basis of WHY they're unknown/unreported. The difference amounts to, one set of numbers is unreported because its knowers don't report it, the other is unreported because it was never ascertained. In BOTH cases a disservice is done to the effort to control infections, since we know that some number (doesn't matter how many) of infected carriers are showing no symptoms, and when they're unidentified, they can't be isolated, and the virus cannot be contained.

Agreed. We don't know. We know that we don't know comprehensively in either case.

Here in IL, if you have symptoms, you can call a hotline, but the advice is, if you don't have a fever or problems breathing, to just stay home, so those people are not being tested at all.

From what I'm seeing the Chinese are testing people en masse as a prerequisite for other medical needs, which is why they are generating these results on asymptomatics, while we are not testing most of them at this point.

Why they'd chuck that data out I don't know, as it is valuable information.

 

[Asclepias]

Lets not forget that conservative bastion Faux and their role in this.

Fox Business parts ways with Trish Regan, host who dismissed coronavirus as 'impeachment scam'

The Fox Business Network announced on Friday that it had parted ways with Trish Regan, the conservative news host who ignited controversy earlier this month when she dismissed the coronavirus pandemic as a conspiracy to throw President Trump out of office.

www.cnn.com

 

[Pogo]

US leading the world in number of infected.

View attachment 316097

You find that "funny"?

Here ya go Ame®icano --- have a look at what you were accusing me of. See what it looks like, Dumbass.

 

[BWK]

As U.S. tops global tally of coronavirus cases, Trump is at odds with reality We have now surpassed China for Coronavirus cases and our population is lower. Go figure. Just proves how well their leadership has tackled this virus with their mandatory quarantines and preparedness. The lack of interest in this pandemic by Trump has taken its toll with loss of life, coupled with all the lies that lead the people in the wrong direction with their preparedness. He told his base it was a hoax for Gods sake, and they said it doesn't exist. Add that with the failure to not declare the defense production act, 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are going to look like a scratch in comparison, if Trump doesn't act, or gets the hell out of the way. Having bidding wars with companies to make masks is insane for example. They are bidding over making money, while people die. To hell with that failure. The defense production act has to happen yesterday. Trump with this ultimate failure of his, has done enough damage already. Can you believe it, he wants everybody to get together to go find the easter bunny, a few Sundays from now because it will be beautiful. In the mean time, people are dropping like flies, because we either are in short supply, or have no masks, gloves, or ventilators. But ha, let's all walk out of church together on easter Sunday and have an easter egg hunt. What a sick, selfish. monster he is.

Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live

More about the MSNBC Rachel Maddow Show airing weeknights at 9 PM. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight or online with updated video & episodes at MSNBC.

www.msnbc.com

States fight for supplies in absence of federal coordination

Rachel Maddow looks at how the lack of federal leadership on seeing to the medical equipment needs of the states has states competing against each other and even other countries, driving up prices.

www.msnbc.com

Yeah, China can also walk people out of the city, and shoot them, to contain the virus. China can also block off entire cities, and starve them to contain a virus.

China can force a hundred people to build a hospital in a week, for $1 a day.

You morons need to be a bit more careful when celebrating the brilliance of China, and the limited ability of the US government which operates under a fundamental belief in the rights of individuals.

Pretty stupid argument.

Rights of individuals gathering in large crowds is getting them sick, and in many cases dead. I'm not sure what "rights" you get to enjoy after that? But, you are right about one thing though, I damn sure am going to be a "bit more careful" about listening to anything you have to say. I, like you, enjoy my rights, and to hell with being stupid and giving them up to coronavirus. I'm going to exercise my rights by using my brain. Thanks for the advise.

But you understand that every single abusive dictator in the world, has used your logic right there, as why they are allowed to harm the public.

By your logic, we should just re-institute slavery, and make everyone wards of the state. After all, if people have rights, they could do something that causes harm! So lets get rid of all those dangerous rights they have.

If you want to be a slave for life, so you can avoid a cough, that's your choice to do so. Don't impose your dictatorship on me, thanks.

The US has a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet as we support 73% of the world's dicatorships. Are you this stunningly unaware?

The pandemic shows yet again that we people have no representation in our political system, by design. Our political class simply does not care, has no need to, and our political system selects for charlatans to be in those positions and leave us to the whims of concentrated capital. That’s their role in society; that of the little Eichmann.

Our “exceptional” self-aggrandized american “way of life” has been exposed to be the fraud it has always been now. Our “representatives”, our “leaders”, pimps really, hid from the public that a pandemic was coming while they informed the donor class; the substantial people and these pimps all got their insider trading wrapped up, sodomizing the 401k working and underclasses like they bipartisanly sodomized children in the Epstein/Maxwell (who was allowed to slither back off into the shadows so as not to further embarrass the aristocracy) child sex trafficking operation over decades.

What’s the feckless, impotent self-serving response of our ruling aristocracy? Double down on more of the SOS and await a different outcome; evermore societal wealth redistribution upward, fewer of the masses to deal with after the first of the COVID-19 retroviral waves rolls through society, and blame China for the inevitable ramifications of how we organize our society. We left ourselves wide open. Our societal priorities have consequences. They’ve come home to roost. Those who made the decisions will be impacted least, they will get priority access to testing and treatment, and they have tax payer funded healthcare. Win win as the moneychangers like to say.

We have a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet, supporting 73% of the world’s dictatorships. We have the most expansive incarceration apparatus ever known to humankind locking down 25% of the world’s incarcerated population versus our comprising 5% of global population. We have militarized “law” enforcement. The entire population is under constant mass corporate state surveillance. We have for profit internment/concentration camps up and running, easily anyone can be targeted for inclusion, americans being so easily turned on one another. The corporate state media machine has been monopolized down to half a dozen multinational corporations spinning spectacle and illusion at a level of efficiency Edward L Bernays could never have imagined given the technology of his day. We can whip up an endless stream of illegal unconstitutional wars without end, Amen, Amen, while no one asks "how we gonna pay for that?". But America simply cannot get it’s shit together on this pandemic, and this was by bipartisanly achieved over time via neoliberal economic fantasy and a lean six sigma approach to life itself.

It has never been clearer who our economic/political system serves, it has never been we the people. We are all tacitly complicit in cooperating with and participating in a death cult for Wall Street returns paradigm. We the people know what our "representatives" are. Predators.

The US has a military presence in 70% of the nations on the planet as we support 73% of the world's dicatorships. Are you this stunningly unaware?

So couple of things there.

First, you are supporting dictatorship in the US.... so why would you care if we support or don't support, other dictatorships?

Second, I said evil dictatorships. Not all governments are evil, even if they are affectively a dictatorship.

Third, You whine about the US military having a presence in 70% of the nations.... but then decry Trump who has actively tried to reduce our military presence around the world.

Fourth, we only have operational military bases in 60 some countries. Not 70% of the nations of the world. The ignorant left-wing, is including military personnel that are deployed, often as liaisons to the military operating in those countries. This is mutually beneficial, so that we do not mistake movements by another country as being hostile, or them mistaking our movements as being hostile.

Fifth, you can make the argument that we should not have those 60 some operational military bases. The counter is that us pulling back already, has had negative impact on world peace. Tensions between Japan and China have already risen quite a bit, with Japan having already made changes to the limitations on the scope of Japan's military in combat roles. I can almost guarantee that if we had troops stationed in Ukraine, that Russia would not be in the Ukraine today. And if we pulled out of South Korea, North Korea would already be at war. And we already know that if we had not deployed troops into Columbia, that Venezuela would have attacked Columbia, and there would have been war in South America.

You can make the argument we should reduce our world presence, but that would be an uphill argument to make, given how clearly our forces have maintained peace.

The pandemic shows yet again that we people have no representation in our political system, by design.

Bull crap. Every time I turn around, the public is getting pretty much what they ask for. Name something the public wanted, and didn't get?

sodomizing the 401k

The number of stocks I own today, is greater than it was last year, or even a month ago. No one can still your property. No one has lost anything.

they bipartisanly sodomized children in the Epstein/Maxwell (who was allowed to slither back off into the shadows so as not to further embarrass the aristocracy) child sex trafficking operation over decades

Then next time you have a Bill Clinton, who is openly, and provably raping people.... vote him out.
Next time you have a guy drive his car into a pond, and kill an intern he left in the car, while he stumbled drunk back to his apartment, and didn't call police until the next day, vote him out.

You can't blame government, when it is the public who are supporting these people.

Next time a guy robs a convenience store, attacks a police officer, and grabs for his gun and get's shot... praise the police officer. You can't march through New York, chanting we want dead cops, and then complain about criminals in public office.

If you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.

Our “exceptional” self-aggrandized american “way of life” has been exposed to be the fraud it has always been now

Really? Because last I looked, we still had millions of immigrants trying to get into this country. Why are they trying to get here, if this is a fraud?

Have you been to Europe? I have. We have a better standard of living here with our "Fraud way of life", than they do.

The only people who think the American way of life is a fraud, are stupid people who don't know how the rest of the planet lives.

You are totally lost to the wilderness with your ridiculous responses. The reason why we should care about dictatorships that we create, is because we affect the lives of millions. When we inject our influence and control, it steals politics, resources, and peoples lives and livelihood. And why should we care about that? Because those people become illegal immigrants and refugees from our own making, that you conveniently complain about. That's why they try and get into this country. Because our government takeover stole everything they ever had, or would have. So yes, we live by way of a fraud, lies, and exploitation of others. And all we do is make cowardly ass excuses for it, just like you are doing now.

You are wrong on all of that. What a ridiculous response.

We steal people's lives and livelihoods? Really? Then why are they all trying to trade with the US?
We steal their politics? Yeah? Name one.
We steal their resources? Isn't that funny how you flip flop on that concept over and over?

We steal their resources, so we shouldn't trade with them.

Then we refuse to trade with them, like Venezuela, and you claim we're destroying them.

So if we do trade, that's bad. But if we don't trade... that's bad.

You people flip flop all over the place.

Because our government takeover stole everything they ever had, or would have

Again, factually garbage. You live a better life in the US, than anywhere else in the world. Stop being a spoiled brat.

Your version of the the truth has no relationship with reality, and you have presented no recognizable intelligent counter arguments. It's just a rant. You want questions answered, here are the answers; ttps://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-interventions-in-latin-american-021/

Imperial Borders and Mythical Frontiers - TheHumanist.com

IMMIGRATION IS THE FOCAL POINT of the political moment, and it is the thing we Americans think about most foolishly—with the least history or context, with little common sense, and almost no perspective. It’s talked about as a new and unique national crisis for the very same reasons it’s been...

thehumanist.com

This is stealing their politics by installing dictatorships. And it isn't they who we trade with. It's their installed dictators like Bolsonaro who we trade with. "They" being the people, do not have a say. That is why we keep the shit going with Venezuela. They don't do like we say. Nixon and Kissinger put in Pinochet of Chile who murdered 3,000 of his own people so he could take over the copper industry from the people and then we moved in. Now they have another right-wing pos Pinera who is dealing with unrest because the people have no living wage or retirement.

You yourself were excusing some dictators.

We are trying to turn Venezuela into a dictatorship, so we can get our hands on the Gold, diamonds, and oil. It's why we imposed sanctions on them. It's all about the stealing by the US.