Trump doubles down on claim that US 'wages are too high

[idb]

So, the way to compete with China getting all of our manufacturing is to bring USA wages DOWN to China's wages?


What a STUPID comment and thoughtless idea.

What amazes me is how backward-looking and devoid of vision the policy of simply reducing costs to compete with the rest of the world is.
Why do you want to bring your population's living standards down to those of Third World standards so that you can compete with them?

Surely a better and more visionary approach is to invest in your workforce, R&D, engineering resources and produce stuff that the rest of the world needs. wants and is happy to pay for.

people who support the policies that DID lead to Detroit resembling some Third World hellhole should avoid embarrassing themselves saying stupid shit................because the question YOU cant answer is how will making the minimum wage $15/hour, unionizing everybody, or endless regulations make us MORE competitive with the 3rd world countries our manufacturing is competing with

Why should I answer that question?

you shouldnt actually, you'll just embarrass your self further

I hate to tell you this and the rest of your team that do not understand MW. Seattle was the first city that raised the minimum wage since June 2014.
Unemployment rate is 3.3% last month from 4.2% last year.

Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

But...that can't be right!
Surely you really mean it's a wasteland?

 

[Care4all]

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

I agree with near everything you've said on 'paper' or in this case, my computer screen...it's a solid theory...again, on paper...and is the positive aspect of what it could be like, without a minimum wage...but i'm a realist, and a daily witness of humans and their nature, and see a drive to lower wages instead of raising them if without the minimum wage....

Businesses want to lower their labors costs, pay less....that's what this is about....

also, minimum wagers have no experience in negotiating for a higher salary and most people with 20 years in the workforce don't have experience in negotiating for a higher salary, they take the raises they get.... big guns have recruiters negotiate their salary packages.

a darn salary negotiation class should be mandatory to take in high school!

And it's so much more complicated than simply the wage, if an employer pays them less, then us tax payers pay more in safety nets for them...

if there are an excess of low wage workers due to illegal immigrants, then wages stay lower.... so many things are intertwined together with this M/W issue...no fault of the American citizen m/w worker but it still lowers their success in negotiating for higher wages if they have the guts to try.

Note! employers can hire a teen for $4+ something an hour for like 3 months, then they have to bring them up to an adult's minimum wage...or let them go if they can't cut it....

Just a question where have you been the past few years, hiding under a rock?

You do know unemployment was sky high , me thinks you live in an alternative universe...

Also how was wages kept artificially low? When you have one million people applying for a job at Mcdonalds and they only hired 62,000 as in 2011?

I've been right here, watching it all...

The minimum wage is kept artificially low by the influx of illegal and legal immigrants...

A fixed minimum wage by the gvt also gives employers an excuse to keep their wages low, when the government says it's ok for them to pay their workers this sanctified minimum.... it's a theory....that if their were no minimum wage, then employers would pay more, instead of paying less because there would be no "approved" below the cost of living minimum wage....and each employer would really have to crunch the numbers for their own business and see what they can pay their new hire....without a minimum to go by they may think the position should pay more...who knows...I'm not to keen on it working this way...just see it as a race to the bottom on wages for the most part....with few exceptions.

It's been slow coming but the Walmart's of the world are raising their entry level wages, without the govt forcing them to raise them, but the negative advertising against them has forced the issue....

 

[idb]

So, the conservative plan is to turn the US into a low wage economy so that it can compete directly with other low wage economies.
Such a glorious vision!

 

[Slyhunter]

So, the conservative plan is to turn the US into a low wage economy so that it can compete directly with other low wage economies.
Such a glorious vision!

no that isn't their plan at all. You're talking out your ass.

 

[idb]

So, the conservative plan is to turn the US into a low wage economy so that it can compete directly with other low wage economies.
Such a glorious vision!

no that isn't their plan at all. You're talking out your ass.

No?
Wages are too high already apparently.

 

[Slyhunter]

So, the conservative plan is to turn the US into a low wage economy so that it can compete directly with other low wage economies.
Such a glorious vision!

no that isn't their plan at all. You're talking out your ass.

No?
Wages are too high already apparently.

Minimum wage might be.

 

[Boss]

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

I agree with near everything you've said on 'paper' or in this case, my computer screen...it's a solid theory...again, on paper...and is the positive aspect of what it could be like, without a minimum wage...but i'm a realist, and a daily witness of humans and their nature, and see a drive to lower wages instead of raising them if without the minimum wage....

Businesses want to lower their labors costs, pay less....that's what this is about....

also, minimum wagers have no experience in negotiating for a higher salary and most people with 20 years in the workforce don't have experience in negotiating for a higher salary, they take the raises they get.... big guns have recruiters negotiate their salary packages.

a darn salary negotiation class should be mandatory to take in high school!

And it's so much more complicated than simply the wage, if an employer pays them less, then us tax payers pay more in safety nets for them...

if there are an excess of low wage workers due to illegal immigrants, then wages stay lower.... so many things are intertwined together with this M/W issue...no fault of the American citizen m/w worker but it still lowers their success in negotiating for higher wages if they have the guts to try.

Note! employers can hire a teen for $4+ something an hour for like 3 months, then they have to bring them up to an adult's minimum wage...or let them go if they can't cut it....

Just a question where have you been the past few years, hiding under a rock?

You do know unemployment was sky high , me thinks you live in an alternative universe...

Also how was wages kept artificially low? When you have one million people applying for a job at Mcdonalds and they only hired 62,000 as in 2011?

I've been right here, watching it all...

The minimum wage is kept artificially low by the influx of illegal and legal immigrants...

A fixed minimum wage by the gvt also gives employers an excuse to keep their wages low, when the government says it's ok for them to pay their workers this sanctified minimum.... it's a theory....that if their were no minimum wage, then employers would pay more, instead of paying less because there would be no "approved" below the cost of living minimum wage....and each employer would really have to crunch the numbers for their own business and see what they can pay their new hire....without a minimum to go by they may think the position should pay more...who knows...I'm not to keen on it working this way...just see it as a race to the bottom on wages for the most part....with few exceptions.

It's been slow coming but the Walmart's of the world are raising their entry level wages, without the govt forcing them to raise them, but the negative advertising against them has forced the issue....

I won't give away any secrets by mentioning names but my company was advising businesses on strategy and how to improve their bottom line. This was back in the roaring 90s. The company (our client) had regional operations in several southern states and competed against a much larger national chain. I will only add that it was a service sector business dealing with the public.

They were hiring workers to start at minimum wage because they had done some opposition research and knew their competitor was also hiring to start at minimum wage. We keyed on this as a problem for them. Reason being, an employee at the other company had a much better healthcare plan, 401k program, etc. So our company was not securing the "cream of the crop" employees by paying the same rate. We recommended a more vibrant benefits package and starting pay at $1.50 more than minimum wage. Of course, we had several other internal suggestions but this is the one that is relevant to our discussion and the most costly suggestion.

The company approved the plan and within 2 years, was knocking the socks off their competition. It's hard to believe that such a small measure had such an impact but it really did. They began, almost immediately, stealing veteran employees away from the big guys. Their efficiency increased because they had better workers. The employees were happier. Their customers were happier. Therefore, bottom line profits increased substantially.

There are times when a company is better off paying more and getting better workers. This is especially true in the service industry. Increasing the national MW only harms these kinds of efforts in utilizing free market principles.

 

[Boss]

So, the conservative plan is to turn the US into a low wage economy so that it can compete directly with other low wage economies.
Such a glorious vision!

You're too dumb to vote Republican.

No, that's not the plan.

It's the explanation for why it's stupid to raise the MW at this time. No one has suggested we lower the minimum wage or pay people slave wages... that's called hyperbole.

 

[LittleNipper]

The problem as see it is that all GOVERNMENT employees are treated far better than their privately owned counterparts. This includes healthcare, vacation time, paid holidays off, wages, and job security. And they (government/public employees) believe that the opposite is true.

 

[idb]

The problem as see it is that all GOVERNMENT employees are treated far better than their privately owned counterparts. This includes healthcare, vacation time, paid holidays off, wages, and job security. And they (government/public employees) believe that the opposite is true.

So, rather than aim to bring everyone else up to their conditions, the better answer is to bring them down to the private sector standards?

 

[Care4all]

The problem as see it is that all GOVERNMENT employees are treated far better than their privately owned counterparts. This includes healthcare, vacation time, paid holidays off, wages, and job security. And they (government/public employees) believe that the opposite is true.

a lot has changed the past few decades...
private sector jobs with good benefits, with a pension plan, are all reducing those benefits because unions with the good benefits are becoming fewer and fewer....there is no longer a union salary and benefits for the others in the private sector, so they do not need to compete on benefits and salaries of union workers........my last job in Massachusetts, the Corporation had people in human resources that compared what the company paid for similar positions in all the unions in the state then paid the company's employees a little bit more than the Unions....the benefits were second to NONE as well....

so a gvt employee being compared to me, as example, would be getting less from the gvt, than my corporation paid....

now, without as many unions and right to work states, benefits and salaries are lower and a govt job is the prize of prizes.

 

[Campbell]

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

I agree with near everything you've said on 'paper' or in this case, my computer screen...it's a solid theory...again, on paper...and is the positive aspect of what it could be like, without a minimum wage...but i'm a realist, and a daily witness of humans and their nature, and see a drive to lower wages instead of raising them if without the minimum wage....

Businesses want to lower their labors costs, pay less....that's what this is about....

also, minimum wagers have no experience in negotiating for a higher salary and most people with 20 years in the workforce don't have experience in negotiating for a higher salary, they take the raises they get.... big guns have recruiters negotiate their salary packages.

a darn salary negotiation class should be mandatory to take in high school!

And it's so much more complicated than simply the wage, if an employer pays them less, then us tax payers pay more in safety nets for them...

if there are an excess of low wage workers due to illegal immigrants, then wages stay lower.... so many things are intertwined together with this M/W issue...no fault of the American citizen m/w worker but it still lowers their success in negotiating for higher wages if they have the guts to try.

Note! employers can hire a teen for $4+ something an hour for like 3 months, then they have to bring them up to an adult's minimum wage...or let them go if they can't cut it....

Just a question where have you been the past few years, hiding under a rock?

You do know unemployment was sky high , me thinks you live in an alternative universe...

Also how was wages kept artificially low? When you have one million people applying for a job at Mcdonalds and they only hired 62,000 as in 2011?

Alternate universe??
Where were you at the end of the Bush reign? 7.5% unemployment, economy bleeding over 700,000 jobs a month, stock market bottomed, had to pass $800 billion to the banks to avoid a depression, two hot wars costing over a trillion dollars of money borrowed from foreign banks, etc.

Now both wars are over, unemployment has dropped to exactly 5%, we've had 67 continuous months of job growth, the stock market has doubled and the main thing....a string of dead young Americans has stopped showing up at Dover.

 

[Stephanie]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

 

[DarkFury]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

Given what went down today I think PRO-guns, PRO-deportation and PRO-wall are about to propel him up another ten points.

 

[Campbell]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

Given what went down today I think PRO-guns, PRO-deportation and PRO-wall are about to propel him up another ten points.

Only with Republicans and they've lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. Learn to say, "Madame President!"

 

[Campbell]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

The Republican party is the one about to shit themselves over American Freedom......they think they're the only ones who should have it.

 

[Boss]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

The Republican party is the one about to shit themselves over American Freedom......they think they're the only ones who should have it.

Big government is anti-freedom.
"Fair and equal for all" is not Liberty.

 

[Campbell]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

The Republican party is the one about to shit themselves over American Freedom......they think they're the only ones who should have it.

Big government is anti-freedom.
"Fair and equal for all" is not Liberty.

 

[Stephanie]

Trump was never my first pick, though he was very useful in waking up that sleeping giant. He brought out what it is that has the people in the country worried about...and it's not some phony BS, like income equality, or GIVING 15 bucks an hour for a hamburger flipper, or what gawddam bathrooms a person who surgically added or cut off parts to themselves were going to be using...

what's even better, is it has the Democrat party and their cult followers pooping all over themselves.

Given what went down today I think PRO-guns, PRO-deportation and PRO-wall are about to propel him up another ten points.

Only with Republicans and they've lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. Learn to say, "Madame President!"

omg, do you have that saying on speed dial or something? I can see you at one of her pathetic rally's cheerleading with: everyone all together now, say Heil Hillary.....
you really need someone better to worship. A corrupted Politician who has done nothing outstanding the whole time she's been sucking a living off us taxpayers is pretty shallow. just my 2cents.

 

[percysunshine]

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

I agree with near everything you've said on 'paper' or in this case, my computer screen...it's a solid theory...again, on paper...and is the positive aspect of what it could be like, without a minimum wage...but i'm a realist, and a daily witness of humans and their nature, and see a drive to lower wages instead of raising them if without the minimum wage....

Businesses want to lower their labors costs, pay less....that's what this is about....

also, minimum wagers have no experience in negotiating for a higher salary and most people with 20 years in the workforce don't have experience in negotiating for a higher salary, they take the raises they get.... big guns have recruiters negotiate their salary packages.

a darn salary negotiation class should be mandatory to take in high school!

And it's so much more complicated than simply the wage, if an employer pays them less, then us tax payers pay more in safety nets for them...

if there are an excess of low wage workers due to illegal immigrants, then wages stay lower.... so many things are intertwined together with this M/W issue...no fault of the American citizen m/w worker but it still lowers their success in negotiating for higher wages if they have the guts to try.

Note! employers can hire a teen for $4+ something an hour for like 3 months, then they have to bring them up to an adult's minimum wage...or let them go if they can't cut it....

Just a question where have you been the past few years, hiding under a rock?

You do know unemployment was sky high , me thinks you live in an alternative universe...

Also how was wages kept artificially low? When you have one million people applying for a job at Mcdonalds and they only hired 62,000 as in 2011?

I've been right here, watching it all...

The minimum wage is kept artificially low by the influx of illegal and legal immigrants...

A fixed minimum wage by the gvt also gives employers an excuse to keep their wages low, when the government says it's ok for them to pay their workers this sanctified minimum.... it's a theory....that if their were no minimum wage, then employers would pay more, instead of paying less because there would be no "approved" below the cost of living minimum wage....and each employer would really have to crunch the numbers for their own business and see what they can pay their new hire....without a minimum to go by they may think the position should pay more...who knows...I'm not to keen on it working this way...just see it as a race to the bottom on wages for the most part....with few exceptions.

It's been slow coming but the Walmart's of the world are raising their entry level wages, without the govt forcing them to raise them, but the negative advertising against them has forced the issue....

I am pretty sure Walmart competes with Target to hire people. If you were a Target manager, what would you offer someone who would be helping your team instead of helping the evil Walmart competitor?

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