Trump and Evangelical religion pro's and con's. Should Religion even be involved in the election?

[whutTHEYsay]

The philosophy of natural rights was championed by such Founding Fathers as Richard Bland, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson,Richard Henry Lee, James Madison, George Mason, Robert Carter Nicholas, Peyton Randolph, George Washington, and George Wythe.Indeed, it would be amazing if any Revolutionary leader of the Commonwealth could be found who did not subscribe to the doctrines of natural law and right. Moreover, the doctrine was not limited to the select few who directed Virginia's destinies, but was widely held and continually expressed by the popular assemblages throughout the Commonwealth during Revolutionary days.

#winning

You are not responding to what I wrote

Jefferson did not consider the God of Abraham to be “Natures God” who is the source of Natural Law.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Laws applied randomly and whimsically.

A demonstration of the truism that anyone at all can be indicated at any time at all using almost any reason at all.

Jo

Is there any case that you know of where Don Trump could violate the law?

 

[daveman]

Laws applied randomly and whimsically.

A demonstration of the truism that anyone at all can be indicated at any time at all using almost any reason at all.

Jo

Democrats learned well from their Soviet Masters.

Lavrentiy Beria​

Evil son of a ***** who killed a lot of people for having wrong beliefs.

No wonder Democrats took up his plan.

 

[justoffal]

Is there any case that you know of where Don Trump could violate the law?

All of us are liable to prosecution at the drop of that should we become a target.
Trump is a New York businessman just like all the other business men in New York. His habits are not functionally different from any of them. That doesn't make them right. But the idea that he stands out from the crowd that he came from is ure Horse Pucky. Michael Bloomberg for instance who has dozens of hush money deals and settlements.

 

[justoffal]

Democrats learned well from their Soviet Masters.

View attachment 1004581

Lavrentiy Beria​

Evil son of a ***** who killed a lot of people for having wrong beliefs.

No wonder Democrats took up his plan.

Yep..... They now want to know what you're thinking.

 

[ding]

You are not responding to what I wrote

Jefferson did not consider the God of Abraham to be “Natures God” who is the source of Natural Law.

The Virginia Founding Fathers were in substantial agreement that the ultimate source of our natural rights was our Creator. Men"are endowed by their Creator" with inherent and inalienable rights,said Thomas Jefferson in the memorable language of the Declaration of Independence.14 Earlier Jefferson had written in his Summary View that "the God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time."' 5 We have natural rights of the intellect, he indicated, "because Almighty God hath created the mind free . .. "16 Speaking of the natural right of expatriation, Jefferson said in the Summary View: "The evidence of this natural right, like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of kings."' 7 In his Notes on Virginia,Jefferson wrote: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"18 Speaking thereof our natural rights, he concluded: "We are answerable for them to our God."' 9 It was in the Summary View in which Jefferson asserted that Parliament had no power to encroach "upon those rights which God and the laws have given equally and independently to all."20

#winning

 

[daveman]

Is there any case that you know of where Don Trump could violate the law?

Of course. He could abuse illegal drugs. He could accept millions in bribes from foreign governments. He could rape children.

Note those are crimes committed by the Biden family.

Would you support their prosecution?

 

[daveman]

Yep..... They now want to know what you're thinking.

Hate crime laws prosecute people for what they think.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

He could abuse illegal drugs. He could accept millions in bribes from foreign governments. He could rape children.

But if Trump said he didn’t do it then it was lawfare. . You would have to believe him wouldn’t you.


He said in his own words that if Mike Pence does the right thing, we “meaning MAGA” will win the 2020 election.. there had to be corruption and lawbreaking involved for Don Trump to win” the 2020 election.

It’s like a Trump confession that he was trying to steal the 2020 from Biden voters.

 

[daveman]

But if Trump said he didn’t do it then it was lawfair. You would have to believe him when you.


He said in his own words that if Mike Pence does the right thing, we “meaning MAGA” will win the 2020 election.. there had to be corruption and lawbreaking involved for Don Trump to win” 2020 election.

It’s like a Trump confession that he was trying to steal the 2020 from Biden voters.

I bet you believe all those votes for Biden that just magically appeared were legit, don't you?

I don't know if Democrats stole the election. But they have done their damnedest to prevent an impartial validation. Does that tell you anything?

 

[cnm]

It's odd how what God wants seems to be what leftists want.

Where did you get that idea? God wants smiting, Shirley? Lots of smiting.

 

[cnm]

I don't know if Democrats stole the election. But they have done their damnedest to prevent an impartial validation. Does that tell you anything?

That you will suck up and regurgitate anything.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

bet you believe all those votes for Biden that just magically appeared were legit, don't you?

Democrats can’t prevent an impartial validation if Republicans came forward with actual evidence and specific charges against any person who committed voter fraud of any kind that cost Don Trump the election.

The nonexistence of evidence is what prevents the validation that the Democrats stole the election from Don Trump.

Our system of government depends upon the idea that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

That Principle applies to the Democratic Party. The Democrat party is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on you MAGA..

 

[TruthNotBS]

Has a dirt poor person ever given you a job? Of course not, because it takes money to hire people. What happens with 'the government' decides to take more tax money from them? Can you tell us? How does a 'working class' person even get a job? Where do jobs come from? Can you tell us?

Reality: When a government decides to put draconian taxes on a profit earning, product producing and job producing enterprise. That enterprise has less money to hire folks and has to raise prices on their products to account for the shortfall.

Has a dirt poor person ever given you a job?

You're asking the wrong question. Why would we have "dirt poor" people in our country? We live in a nation that is so rich in natural resources and human productive capacity, that it's insane that anyone in our country would be "dirt poor". There's something seriously wrong with our economic and political system, if we have "dirt poor" people in our country.

The job creators in this country, aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, but because capitalism rests upon the labor of others. Without wages, there's no market, hence the capitalists are just as dependent upon workers, as workers rely on capitalists to hire them. There's a type of symbiotic relationship between the wealthy capitalist class and their employees. The employers/exploiters and the employees/exploitees are what allows capitalism to exist.

MASS PRODUCTION IS A SOCIAL ENDEAVOR, NOT A PRIVATE ONE.
It takes a community, to mass produce goods and services.​

Moreover, the employer doesn't have to be a private pursuer of capital but could also be a democratic government. Don't you realize that? There are many ways to create jobs, including the government being the employer. Furthermore, the working class could collectively own the means of production and own and operate business enterprises collectively and democratically. Such business enterprises are called "Worker Co-Ops". So your whole view of production is quite skewed by capitalist propaganda.

Of course not because it takes money to hire people.

But not necessarily a wealthy capitalist.

What happens with 'the government' decides to take more tax money from them? Can you tell us?

It depends on which government you're referring to. Here in the US, we have local municipalities, state and federal governments. Local and state governments fund themselves through taxation, whereas the US Federal Government is the exclusive issuer of the USD, hence it doesn't need taxes to have money. It simply types the money into a computer at the FED, depositing the money into different government accounts. The purpose of federal taxation is to control inflation and maintain the value of the dollar, not to provide the federal government with money to fund itself.

When local governments impose taxes, they have money to maintain their infrastructure and services to the public. They potentially can improve people's lives, by offering social services to the public and improving infrastructure.

How does a 'working class' person even get a job? Where do jobs come from? Can you tell us?

A working-class person can sell their labor power or rent their life to a capitalist for several hours daily or can become employed by the government. In our country, we don't have as many worker-owned and run cooperatives as in Western Europe, but a worker can also find employment in a worker-owned and run cooperative.

Reality: When a government decides to put draconian taxes on a profit earning, product producing and job producing enterprise. That enterprise has less;
money to hire folks and has to raise prices on their products to account for the shortfall.

Not necessarily, it depends on what the government is using that money for. If it is reinvesting the money into public transit and other infrastructural projects, it might actually increase profits for private business enterprises. However, I'm against government imposing "draconian" anything on anyone. I believe the government can function, providing the working class with needed social services, without imposing more taxes on businesses. I believe in offering capitalist job creators with tax cuts and incentives, even subsidies like these:

Rank	Parent	Subsidy Value	Number of Awards
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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Subsidy Tracker

Subsidy Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

​

I don't have much of a problem with "socialism for the rich", provided the rich pay their workers well and respect their rights. If capitalists are good to their workers, providing them with a living wage, and benefits, I become very "business friendly", even though I'm a socialist.

As a socialist, I recognize the value of markets, within a certain context, and I don't hate markets or capitalism, provided it's properly regulated. I do however, recognize that in the future, advanced automation and artificial intelligence will force society by necessity to adopt a marketless, non-profit system of production, that is more rational, centrally planned, and democratic (owned and run by the public). That's inevitable due to the nature of advanced technology. Socialism is the inevitable successor of capitalism, just as capitalism succeeded feudalism and chattel slavery. Everything that I have explained in this post, amounts to the natural evolution of human production.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The philosophy of natural rights was championed by such Founding Fathers as Richard Bland, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson,Richard Henry Lee, James Madison, George Mason, Robert Carter Nicholas, Peyton Randolph, George Washington, and George Wythe.Indeed, it would be amazing if any Revolutionary leader of the Commonwealth could be found who did not subscribe to the doctrines of natural law and right. Moreover, the doctrine was not limited to the select few who directed Virginia's destinies, but was widely held and continually expressed by the popular assemblages throughout the Commonwealth during Revolutionary days.

#winning

Many of whom were deists or agnostic in statement. One could be a weak Christian and subscribe to a God of Natural Rights, IO suppose. Washington, Madison, Monroe, and others come to mind.

 

[dblack]

Warren Buffet is NOT avoiding taxes. He is intelligently using the loopholes provided to the rich people. He mentioned the fact that he pays less taxes than his secretary because he has a heart and would like our taxes to be fair. Nonetheless, he is no idiot so he is not going to pay more taxes than other Billionaires as that would solve absolutely nothing.

Whichever. I think we both agree about what he's up to. Still not seeing how this has anything with my claim that Democrats want to force other people care for the poor.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The Virginia Founding Fathers were in substantial agreement that the ultimate source of our natural rights was our Creator. Men"are endowed by their Creator" with inherent and inalienable rights,said Thomas Jefferson in the memorable language of the Declaration of Independence.14 Earlier Jefferson had written in his Summary View that "the God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time."' 5 We have natural rights of the intellect, he indicated, "because Almighty God hath created the mind free . .. "16 Speaking of the natural right of expatriation, Jefferson said in the Summary View: "The evidence of this natural right, like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of kings."' 7 In his Notes on Virginia,Jefferson wrote: "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"18 Speaking thereof our natural rights, he concluded: "We are answerable for them to our God."' 9 It was in the Summary View in which Jefferson asserted that Parliament had no power to encroach "upon those rights which God and the laws have given equally and independently to all."20

#winning

That’s great Saint_Diing, nowhere in a lifetime of his writing does Jefferson ever say that his concept of a “creator“ is limited to the desert kingdom God of Abraham. In fact, he wanted nothing to do with the God of Abraham and his revelation to mankind in a book produced by the corrupt Catholic Church.

 

[ding]

That’s great Saint_Diing, nowhere in a lifetime of his writing does Jefferson ever say that his concept of a “creator“ is limited to the desert kingdom God of Abraham. In fact, he wanted nothing to do with the God of Abraham and his revelation to mankind in a book produced by the corrupt Catholic Church.

Later in life Jefferson wrote that we must follow "those moral rules which the Author of our being has implanted in man as the law of his nature to govern him in his associated, as well as individual character."21 That the natural rights of man came from God, in Jefferson's belief, was beyond doubt.

#winning

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Later in life Jefferson wrote that we must follow "those moral rules which the Author of our being has implanted in man as the law of his nature to govern him in his associated, as well as individual character."21 That the natural rights of man came from God, in Jefferson's belief, was beyond doubt.

#winning

TJ did not believe in an Abrahamic god and dismissed all Christian myths and miracles.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Whichever. I think we both agree about what he's up to. Still not seeing how this has anything with my claim that Democrats want to force other people care for the poor.

You don't have to care for the poor, but you will pay your taxes like everyone else. You can try to defund government programs that lift the poor, providing them with the resources that they need to survive and become productive members of society, but there will always be people that resist your efforts to do that, knowing that if such social ills are left unaddressed they lead to more serious and expensive problems for society.