transplant organ trafficking

[tommywho70x]

there have been some well thought statements here as well as the usual dim bulb trash but nobody has really touched on what is truly frightening : the allegation that governments such as china and israel are involved in non-consensual organ harvesting from prisoners (often political rather than criminal) for profit.

the israelis have been repeatedly accused in the past year and seem to be standing mute. when some particularly gruesome accusations came up, i attempted to get official responses from the israeli consul in houston and the anti-defamation league. neither responded.

does anybody here have solid, verifiable evidence pointing to the truth or falsehood of these accusations?

And that's the nut of all this: Consent.

The idea that organs should just be taken as a matter of course is just plain old ghoulish.

i have not been able to get any denial or verification, but the allegation has been made that the israelis carve up people brought in from traffic accidents as "a matter of course" supported by some law.

 

[Dr Gregg]

there have been some well thought statements here as well as the usual dim bulb trash but nobody has really touched on what is truly frightening : the allegation that governments such as china and israel are involved in non-consensual organ harvesting from prisoners (often political rather than criminal) for profit.

the israelis have been repeatedly accused in the past year and seem to be standing mute. when some particularly gruesome accusations came up, i attempted to get official responses from the israeli consul in houston and the anti-defamation league. neither responded.

does anybody here have solid, verifiable evidence pointing to the truth or falsehood of these accusations?

And that's the nut of all this: Consent.

The idea that organs should just be taken as a matter of course is just plain old ghoulish.

i have not been able to get any denial or verification, but the allegation has been made that the israelis carve up people brought in from traffic accidents as "a matter of course" supported by some law.

I believe their laws regarding organ donations is similar to what was proposed in NY. That unless you opt out by filling out a form saying you don't want to be an organ donor, it is assumed that you are. Don't know about those allegations

I wouldn't put it past china to do shit like that, they have a history of deplorable human rights violations, forced abortions, and questionable ethics with regard to all the "Body Worlds" bodies.

 

[JBeukema]

No, what's in it for them?

Your reasons for why you'd do something are irrelevant to someone else.

Leave it to Dude to demand someone find a way to satisfy his selfishness to convince him to allow some good to come of his organs after he's dead. Not surprising, seeing as he is the same poster who argues for an aristocracy and derides any attempt to help others.


You truly are a shitty character.

Leave it to a closet statist like you to be so arrogant that your values hierarchy should be supplanted for that of other people...At gunpoint if necessary.

You truly are a living Randian stereotype of the looter and thug.

When you die, what's so evil about your tissues going to save the live of a sick or wounded child? One body can, if in good health, save the lives of many persons.

Yet you try to paint those who would see people helped as immoral?

 

[JBeukema]

I believe their laws regarding organ donations is similar to what was proposed in NY. That unless you opt out by filling out a form saying you don't want to be an organ donor, it is assumed that you are. Don't know about those allegations

Sounds like a good law. If you've some religious delusion that makes you think that allowing people's lives to be saved or bettered after you're gone, you're insane and probably shouldn't be considered as a source of healthy tissue anyway, lest it be discovered that your madness was caused by some undetected pathogen.

 

[Oddball]

Leave it to Dude to demand someone find a way to satisfy his selfishness to convince him to allow some good to come of his organs after he's dead. Not surprising, seeing as he is the same poster who argues for an aristocracy and derides any attempt to help others.


You truly are a shitty character.

Leave it to a closet statist like you to be so arrogant that your values hierarchy should be supplanted for that of other people...At gunpoint if necessary.

You truly are a living Randian stereotype of the looter and thug.

When you die, what's so evil about your tissues going to save the live of a sick or wounded child? One body can, if in good health, save the lives of many persons.

Yet you try to paint those who would see people helped as immoral?

I didn't say anything about evil...You did.

Once again, you're trying to use your criteria an mores as the guideposts by which others should act....Little I can think of that's more truly selfish.

 

[JBeukema]

Once again, you're trying to use your criteria an mores as the guideposts by which others should act

So you're saying people shouldn't rape and murder? Or is it still wrong (immoral) to make law pertaining to it because the law would be based on what your own mores?

 

[California Girl]

Yet more hysteria from the droolers who think everyone should do what they want. Free choice, people. Donate if you want to and don't if you dont.

I am a donor. I am registered both in the US and UK. If I die, they can take whatever they want but do I think that should entitle me to jump the transplant list? Hell no.

 

[Oddball]

Once again, you're trying to use your criteria an mores as the guideposts by which others should act

So you're saying people shouldn't rape and murder? Or is it still wrong (immoral) to make law pertaining to it because the law would be based on what your own mores?

How are rape and murder relevant here?

Y'know...For a guy who likes to try and hold forth on lofty esoteric topics, some pretty elementary concepts --like appealing to the values of another to persuade them-- fly right over your head.

 

[JBeukema]

So you do support rape and murder?

 

[Oddball]

That's not an answer...What do rape and murder have to do with this topic?

 

[California Girl]

So you do support rape and murder?

 

[JBeukema]

You keep insisting that it's wrong (funny, you want to force your mores on others regarding the matter) to 'force one's mores on another' by wanting to use available tissues to save children.

It's funny, watching you condemn yourself without realizing it.

 

[Oddball]

You still haven't answered the question, deflectasaurus rex.

WHAT

DO

RAPE

AND

MURDER

HAVE

TO

DO

WITH

THIS

TOPIC?

 

[JBeukema]

So you refuse to answer the question?

I can only assume that's because you do, in fact, support rape and murder and you've painted yourself into a corner.

 

[Oddball]

I'll answer it just as soon as you point out its relevance, and how you come to that conclusion.

 

[JBeukema]

So you still refuse to deny that you support rape and murder.

 

[Oddball]

So, you still refuse to point out the relevance of the question.

 

[JBeukema]

Why do you support rape and murder?

Have you no morals at all?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

this topic is tremendously volatile and every discussion i have seen has deteriorated into nonsense. i'm hoping this crew is going to be able to handle it intelligently.

there are at least two distinct moral issues. clearly, if a person or the next of kin of a deceased person does not consent to allow transplant-able organs to be harvested from their corpse, one should think there has been a crime committed.

the chinese have been accused of harvesting organs from prisoners without consent. the israelis have also been accused of non-consensual organ harvesting including unfounded accusations of israeli disaster relief workers harvesting organs from haitian earthquake victims.

the other, only slightly less gruesome scenario is the consensual purchase of organs for profit. there was an indictment in new jersey last summer involving organ gray marketing that implicated orthodox jews and the new jersey governor.

can this community dig into this and discuss these issues with some insight and reason?

Chinese? How about we clean our own house first. What about the New Jersey organ trafficking scandal? It brought down the State government there!

UPDATE: Federal corruption probe spans 44 arrests, human organ trafficking | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

 

[Oddball]

Why do you support rape and murder?

Have you no morals at all?

I know you are, but what am I?