Zone1 Transparent

[IM2]

Why do some people like Booker T Washington and modern blacks with his mentality? The claim is because he represents sucess, but in reality there is a more sinister motive. Some have even hailed him as a prophet for a comment that was so incorrect that it further endangered the lives of black people in America. Why do they not embrace WEB Dubois? I mean, Dubois stressed education and civic duty, so why do we see all the references to Bookert T Washington?

The Debate Between W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington​

Two great leaders of the black community in the late 19th and 20th century were W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. However, they sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress. Their opposing philosophies can be found in much of today’s discussions over how to end class and racial injustice, what is the role of black leadership, and what do the ‘haves’ owe the ‘have-nots’ in the black community.

Booker T. Washington, educator, reformer and the most influentional black leader of his time (1856-1915) preached a philosophy of self-help, racial solidarity and accomodation. He urged blacks to accept discrimination for the time being and concentrate on elevating themselves through hard work and material prosperity. He believed in education in the crafts, industrial and farming skills and the cultivation of the virtues of patience, enterprise and thrift. This, he said, would win the respect of whites and lead to African Americans being fully accepted as citizens and integrated into all strata of society.

W.E.B. Du Bois, a towering black intellectual, scholar and political thinker (1868-1963) said no–Washington’s strategy would serve only to perpetuate white oppression. Du Bois advocated political action and a civil rights agenda (he helped found the NAACP). In addition, he argued that social change could be accomplished by developing the small group of college-educated blacks he called “the Talented Tenth:”

“The Negro Race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men. The problem of education then, among Negroes, must first of all deal with the “Talented Tenth.” It is the problem of developing the best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the worst.”

Booker T. & W.E.B | The Two Nations Of Black America | FRONTLINE

W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress.

www.pbs.org

So we see why Booker T is so popular. His philospohy was similar to the Asian concept of Gaman.

My dictionary defines gaman as “patience, endurance, perseverance, tolerance, self-control, and self-denial.”

In other words, be quiet and take it. It seems as if some members of the white community are of the mindset that whatever they do to people that it's to be accepted and if you don't then it is you who has the problem. Meanwhile those same people willl not sit quietly and take anything. They tell blacks to be like Washington who: "advocated black Americans accept for awhile the political and social status quo of segregation and discriminaton," thinking that if we do that and work hard whites will eventually respect us..

His belief failed miserably. So why do some whites today praise Washington and emplore blacks to be more like him.

The reason is transparent.

 

[MarcATL]

It's the exact same reason why racist whites pretend to like MLK Jr as well.

The perceived submission.

However, they don't like the full truth of the man.

It never changes w/those from a lineage of evil.

 

[el midgetron]

Meanwhile those same people willl not sit quietly and take anything. They tell blacks to be like Washington who: "advocated black Americans accept for awhile the political and social status quo of segregation and discriminaton," thinking that if we do that and work hard whites will eventually respect us..

What kind of racist jerk would think something like “hard work” could earn you “respect”? Work is for chumps. Players hustle.

 

[Seymour Flops]

IM2, if you actually know any black people, you should tell them that the question is not which 19th century black leaders were better or worse for black folks, but which white leaders of the 20th century have managed to re-enslave them.

Blacks were bootstrapping themselves at the pace recommended by BTW, and/or WEB DuBois, who were not nearly as far apart as you seem to think. They were Republicans since the Civil War, when the GOP freed them. Democrats saw that this rising black middle class was the biggest threat to them since abolition.

So, they doffed their white sheets and pointy hats, put on professorial tweed jackets, or jeans and “radical” Beatles haircuts and said to blacks “you’re the victim, brother.” They lured them into welfare, and the illegitimacy/welfare/illegtimacy cycle that is inherent in that system in the U.S. After that keeping them on the plantation was easy. Same way their ancestors were kept on their plantations: with threats that a worse massa was waiting for them if they ever left.

“The Republicans will take away your welfare, and your Obamaphones!” “They gonna put y’all back in chains.” “They won’t let us give y’all reparations!”

 

[DGS49]

Rational "white" folks have nothing but good wishes and support for Black people who choose to advance themselves by education, training, entrepreneurship, and hard work. Who could oppose that, and why?

Parenthetically, at the beginning of Johnson's Great Society, Americans were entertained by a spate of films wherein Sidney Poitier played the Black guy that we thought we would be getting as a result of Johnson's anti-discrimination policies. He worked hard, was conspicuously honest, had gobs of self-respect, and prevailed using the middle-class values that all Americans once subscribed to. But alas...

There is a reluctance in the "white" community to support Black folks who hope to succeed through racial discrimination (e.g., DEI initiatives), despite credentials and abilities that are sub-standard, in the hope that their shortcomings will not harm anyone but themselves. It is this crew who, additionally, refuse to acknowledge the self-causation of wretched existence through behavior patterns that are well known and well documented in this forum.

A pox on "white" folks who presume that without racial discrimination in favor of Blacks there is no hope that they can improve their lot. The main causes for their lot are not racial discrimination or prejudice.

 

[IM2]

IM2, if you actually know any black people, you should tell them that the question is not which 19th century black leaders were better or worse for black folks, but which white leaders of the 20th century have managed to re-enslave them.

Blacks were bootstrapping themselves at the pace recommended by BTW, and/or WEB DuBois, who were not nearly as far apart as you seem to think. They were Republicans since the Civil War, when the GOP freed them. Democrats saw that this rising black middle class was the biggest threat to them since abolition.

So, they doffed their white sheets and pointy hats, put on professorial tweed jackets, or jeans and “radical” Beatles haircuts and said to blacks “you’re the victim, brother.” They lured them into welfare, and the illegitimacy/welfare/illegtimacy cycle that is inherent in that system in the U.S. After that keeping them on the plantation was easy. Same way their ancestors were kept on their plantations: with threats that a worse massa was waiting for them if they ever left.

“The Republicans will take away your welfare, and your Obamaphones!” “They gonna put y’all back in chains.” “They won’t let us give y’all reparations!”

I'm black so I do know black people. You apparently don't. And it's you guys talking about Bookee T Washington. Furthermore you guys constantly talk about the so called founding fathers so you don't have anything to say that I need to hear or read.

Everything you say here is garbage. The GOP didn't free anyone. The GOP participated in Jim Crow just like the Democrats. And the Democratic south is now Republican. So considering that in the last century alone whites got government economic assistance equivalent to at lest 500 trillion dollars that blacks were excluded from, I suggest that once again that you just shut up.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why do some people like Booker T Washington and modern blacks with his mentality? The claim is because he represents sucess, but in reality there is a more sinister motive. Some have even hailed him as a prophet for a comment that was so incorrect that it further endangered the lives of black people in America. Why do they not embrace WEB Dubois? I mean, Dubois stressed education and civic duty, so why do we see all the references to Bookert T Washington?

The Debate Between W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington​

Two great leaders of the black community in the late 19th and 20th century were W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. However, they sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress. Their opposing philosophies can be found in much of today’s discussions over how to end class and racial injustice, what is the role of black leadership, and what do the ‘haves’ owe the ‘have-nots’ in the black community.

Booker T. Washington, educator, reformer and the most influentional black leader of his time (1856-1915) preached a philosophy of self-help, racial solidarity and accomodation. He urged blacks to accept discrimination for the time being and concentrate on elevating themselves through hard work and material prosperity. He believed in education in the crafts, industrial and farming skills and the cultivation of the virtues of patience, enterprise and thrift. This, he said, would win the respect of whites and lead to African Americans being fully accepted as citizens and integrated into all strata of society.

W.E.B. Du Bois, a towering black intellectual, scholar and political thinker (1868-1963) said no–Washington’s strategy would serve only to perpetuate white oppression. Du Bois advocated political action and a civil rights agenda (he helped found the NAACP). In addition, he argued that social change could be accomplished by developing the small group of college-educated blacks he called “the Talented Tenth:”

“The Negro Race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men. The problem of education then, among Negroes, must first of all deal with the “Talented Tenth.” It is the problem of developing the best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the worst.”

Booker T. & W.E.B | The Two Nations Of Black America | FRONTLINE

W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress.

www.pbs.org

So we see why Booker T is so popular. His philospohy was similar to the Asian concept of Gaman.

My dictionary defines gaman as “patience, endurance, perseverance, tolerance, self-control, and self-denial.”

In other words, be quiet and take it. It seems as if some members of the white community are of the mindset that whatever they do to people that it's to be accepted and if you don't then it is you who has the problem. Meanwhile those same people willl not sit quietly and take anything. They tell blacks to be like Washington who: "advocated black Americans accept for awhile the political and social status quo of segregation and discriminaton," thinking that if we do that and work hard whites will eventually respect us..

His belief failed miserably. So why do some whites today praise Washington and emplore blacks to be more like him.

The reason is transparent.

How many black high school students can even read this racist writing, 2%? 5%?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm black so I do know black people. You apparently don't. And it's you guys talking about Bookee T Washington. Furthermore you guys constantly talk about the so called founding fathers so you don't have anything to say that I need to hear or read.

Everything you say here is garbage. The GOP didn't free anyone. The GOP participated in Jim Crow just like the Democrats. And the Democratic south is now Republican. So considering that in the last century alone whites got government economic assistance equivalent to at lest 500 trillion dollars that blacks were excluded from, I suggest that once again that you just shut up.

Democrat party= Fugitive Slave Laws, Tuskegee Experiment, “I’ll have them ******* voting democrat for the next 200 years” “you ain’t black’”

 

[IM2]

Rational "white" folks have nothing but good wishes and support for Black people who choose to advance themselves by education, training, entrepreneurship, and hard work. Who could oppose that, and why?

Parenthetically, at the beginning of Johnson's Great Society, Americans were entertained by a spate of films wherein Sidney Poitier played the Black guy that we thought we would be getting as a result of Johnson's anti-discrimination policies. He worked hard, was conspicuously honest, had gobs of self-respect, and prevailed using the middle-class values that all Americans once subscribed to. But alas...

There is a reluctance in the "white" community to support Black folks who hope to succeed through racial discrimination (e.g., DEI initiatives), despite credentials and abilities that are sub-standard, in the hope that their shortcomings will not harm anyone but themselves. It is this crew who, additionally, refuse to acknowledge the self-causation of wretched existence through behavior patterns that are well known and well documented in this forum.

A pox on "white" folks who presume that without racial discrimination in favor of Blacks there is no hope that they can improve their lot. The main causes for their lot are not racial discrimination or prejudice.

Whites like you live in a delusion whereby you ignore the huge amount of direct economic assistance whites have been given by the government that blacks were excluded from. Until you and others can discuss this cease with the lectures.

Nothing to both of you said he was true. I'm tired of whites like you 2 lying about how things were. I saw how things were as a child, and none of your gaslighting is going to work.

What you talk about is not reluctance. It is modern 21st century white racism. Substandard whites have been getting jobs from dsay one of this country and until whites like you stop lying to yourself about that, cease the ignorant racist commentary. Our labor created the initial wealth of this country and your white --- is living off the compound interest. So I don't GAD what whites like you are reluctant about. Black tax dollars went into 20th Century programs that excluded us and your white --- has the nerve to tell somebody what whites are reluctant to do.

That's evil. And then whites like you wonder why some blacks call whites devils.

 

[IM2]

How many black high school students can even read this racist writing, 2%? 5%?

Apparently more than you can because you are too stupid to know your own history.

 

[IM2]

Democrat party= Fugitive Slave Laws, Tuskegee Experiment, “I’ll have them ******* voting democrat for the next 200 years” “you ain’t black’”

Nice try, but we blacks know the true record and the modern republican party filibustered The John Lewis Voting Rights Act.

 

[MarathonMike]

Why do some people like Booker T Washington and modern blacks with his mentality? The claim is because he represents sucess, but in reality there is a more sinister motive. Some have even hailed him as a prophet for a comment that was so incorrect that it further endangered the lives of black people in America. Why do they not embrace WEB Dubois? I mean, Dubois stressed education and civic duty, so why do we see all the references to Bookert T Washington?

The Debate Between W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington​

Two great leaders of the black community in the late 19th and 20th century were W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. However, they sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress. Their opposing philosophies can be found in much of today’s discussions over how to end class and racial injustice, what is the role of black leadership, and what do the ‘haves’ owe the ‘have-nots’ in the black community.

Booker T. Washington, educator, reformer and the most influentional black leader of his time (1856-1915) preached a philosophy of self-help, racial solidarity and accomodation. He urged blacks to accept discrimination for the time being and concentrate on elevating themselves through hard work and material prosperity. He believed in education in the crafts, industrial and farming skills and the cultivation of the virtues of patience, enterprise and thrift. This, he said, would win the respect of whites and lead to African Americans being fully accepted as citizens and integrated into all strata of society.

W.E.B. Du Bois, a towering black intellectual, scholar and political thinker (1868-1963) said no–Washington’s strategy would serve only to perpetuate white oppression. Du Bois advocated political action and a civil rights agenda (he helped found the NAACP). In addition, he argued that social change could be accomplished by developing the small group of college-educated blacks he called “the Talented Tenth:”

“The Negro Race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men. The problem of education then, among Negroes, must first of all deal with the “Talented Tenth.” It is the problem of developing the best of this race that they may guide the Mass away from the contamination and death of the worst.”

Booker T. & W.E.B | The Two Nations Of Black America | FRONTLINE

W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington sharply disagreed on strategies for black social and economic progress.

www.pbs.org

So we see why Booker T is so popular. His philospohy was similar to the Asian concept of Gaman.

My dictionary defines gaman as “patience, endurance, perseverance, tolerance, self-control, and self-denial.”

In other words, be quiet and take it. It seems as if some members of the white community are of the mindset that whatever they do to people that it's to be accepted and if you don't then it is you who has the problem. Meanwhile those same people willl not sit quietly and take anything. They tell blacks to be like Washington who: "advocated black Americans accept for awhile the political and social status quo of segregation and discriminaton," thinking that if we do that and work hard whites will eventually respect us..

His belief failed miserably. So why do some whites today praise Washington and emplore blacks to be more like him.

The reason is transparent.

The legacy of Booker T Washington speaks for itself. Your weak attempts to smear him are sad and ineffective. Du Bois was a child of privilege, never experienced slavery or even racial bias. He apparently had a happy childhood and didn't become an America hater until he attended Harvard. Hmmmmmmmm isn't that interesting?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Nice try, but we blacks know the true record and the modern republican party filibustered The John Lewis Voting Rights Act.

No you stupid lying fucking nitwit!! That’s the OPPOSITE of what happened!!! Ike tried to pass a Civil Right Bill staring in 1957 but your Plantation Master LBJ killed the “****** Bill” in the Senate! You are either uneducated, which is likely or just outright lying

 

[DGS49]

Whites like you live in a delusion whereby you ignore the huge amount of direct economic assistance whites have been given by the government that blacks were excluded from. Until you and others can discuss this cease with the lectures.

Nothing to both of you said he was true. I'm tired of whites like you 2 lying about how things were. I saw how things were as a child, and none of your gaslighting is going to work.

What you talk about is not reluctance. It is modern 21st century white racism. Substandard whites have been getting jobs from dsay one of this country and until whites like you stop lying to yourself about that, cease the ignorant racist commentary. Our labor created the initial wealth of this country and your white --- is living off the compound interest. So I don't GAD what whites like you are reluctant about. Black tax dollars went into 20th Century programs that excluded us and your white --- has the nerve to tell somebody what whites are reluctant to do.

That's evil. And then whites like you wonder why some blacks call whites devils.

You speak (write) from a fallacious position. Just because someone else got something good that you didn't get, that does not equate to something bad done to you. I assume that "white privilege" exists, and even that I may have benefitted from it, but that doesn't take away opportunities from Black people of talent and good will. In each and every case where I was arguably the beneficiary of "white privilege," a similarly-qualified POC would have been welcomed much more than I would have.

Allow me to give you a few examples:

When I went to work for DoD in 1975, I lacked a college degree but was given an opportunity because I scored very well on the Professional and Career Exam and because I was a Vietnam veteran. Had I been Black - male or female - with similar credentials, they would have not only hired me, they would have thrown a fucking party to celebrate getting me on board.

When I was admitted to Duquesne University School of Law (1978), same thing. A Black male or female with the same LSAT score and transcripts that I had would have been welcomed with open arms. Indeed s/he could have been accepted with LSAT's and grades that were not nearly has high as mine were.

In both cases, had only one opening been available and I was competing with a POC - male or female - the benefit would have gone against me and to the POC.

What, exactly, was my "white privilege"? How was any POC disadvantaged?

When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, the situation was as you seem to think it is now. Blacks who were qualified were rejected due to racial animus, but those days are long gone and in fact have been flipped in most cases.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I'm black so I do know black people.

No, you're not. You're some cracker dissappointed by how few blacks are on this forum exalting the Democrats for how kindly they have been to Blacks over the centuries, so you make up this silly character. No one is fooled, best you give it up and stop embarassing yourself.

You apparently don't. And it's you guys talking about Bookee T Washington. Furthermore you guys constantly talk about the so called founding fathers so you don't have anything to say that I need to hear or read.

Those great men who founded a great nation, but had flaws like everyone else? Sure, I'll talk them up.

Everything you say here is garbage. The GOP didn't free anyone. The GOP participated in Jim Crow just like the Democrats. And the Democratic south is now Republican. So considering that in the last century alone whites got government economic assistance equivalent to at lest 500 trillion dollars that blacks were excluded from, I suggest that once again that you just shut up.

If you as a white Democrat are afraid that blacks are finally leaving your plantation, you are right to be be. Be very afraid.

 

[MarathonMike]

You speak (write) from a fallacious position. Just because someone else got something good that you didn't get, that does not equate to something bad done to you. I assume that "white privilege" exists, and even that I may have benefitted from it, but that doesn't take away opportunities from Black people of talent and good will. In each and every case where I was arguably the beneficiary of "white privilege," a similarly-qualified POC would have been welcomed much more than I would have.

Allow me to give you a few examples:

When I went to work for DoD in 1975, I lacked a college degree but was given an opportunity because I scored very well on the Professional and Career Exam and because I was a Vietnam veteran. Had I been Black - male or female - with similar credentials, they would have not only hired me, they would have thrown a fucking party to celebrate getting me on board.

When I was admitted to Duquesne University School of Law (1978), same thing. A Black male or female with the same LSAT score and transcripts that I had would have been welcomed with open arms. Indeed s/he could have been accepted with LSAT's and grades that were not nearly has high as mine were.

In both cases, had only one opening been available and I was competing with a POC - male or female - the benefit would have gone against me and to the POC.

What, exactly, was my "white privilege"? How was any POC disadvantaged?

When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's, the situation was as you seem to think it is now. Blacks who were qualified were rejected due to racial animus, but those days are long gone and in fact have been flipped in most cases.

IM2 refuses to acknowledge that what WAS Systemic Bias against Blacks has been replaced by Systemic FAVORITISM for Blacks. There will always be some racist individuals of all colors.