CDZ Transgender in the Military Debate

[Coyote]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

There is no indication that being transgender "isn't good" for the military or that transgender service members are disproportionately unfit for the job. Do you have any data to show that it is?

Other countries have no prohibitions against transgenders serving and don't seem to be adversely effected.

1. I don't care what other countries do, most of 'em are a little more into PC than we are. What works for them doesn't mean it'll work as well for us.

Maybe, maybe not. But military culture is similar across many countries. Looking at how it works in other countries, especially those with high quality militaries (like Israel) can provide information.

2. There are indeed studies that indicate transgenders might be disproportionately unfit for the job. These are not people you want to give weapons to and send them off to war. Guess you didn't read Post #10, so I'll re-post some of it:


The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Transgender People Have High Rates of Mental Illness

An endocrinologist in the early days of the sex change movement, Dr. Charles Ihlenfeld, administered cross-gender hormones to some 500 gender changers over six years. Based on his observations, Ihlenfeld sounded a warning in 1979 about hormone therapy and reassignment surgery: “There is too much unhappiness among people who have had the surgery,” he said. “Too many of them end as suicides.” Ihlenfeld retrained as a psychiatrist to be better equipped to treat the transgender population.

I actually DID read it, but I am not seeing how it necessarily applies to the military. They do their own physical and psychiatric assessments of potential recruits do they not?

 

[task0778]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

There is no indication that being transgender "isn't good" for the military or that transgender service members are disproportionately unfit for the job. Do you have any data to show that it is?

Other countries have no prohibitions against transgenders serving and don't seem to be adversely effected.

1. I don't care what other countries do, most of 'em are a little more into PC than we are. What works for them doesn't mean it'll work as well for us.

Maybe, maybe not. But military culture is similar across many countries. Looking at how it works in other countries, especially those with high quality militaries (like Israel) can provide information.

2. There are indeed studies that indicate transgenders might be disproportionately unfit for the job. These are not people you want to give weapons to and send them off to war. Guess you didn't read Post #10, so I'll re-post some of it:


The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Transgender People Have High Rates of Mental Illness

An endocrinologist in the early days of the sex change movement, Dr. Charles Ihlenfeld, administered cross-gender hormones to some 500 gender changers over six years. Based on his observations, Ihlenfeld sounded a warning in 1979 about hormone therapy and reassignment surgery: “There is too much unhappiness among people who have had the surgery,” he said. “Too many of them end as suicides.” Ihlenfeld retrained as a psychiatrist to be better equipped to treat the transgender population.

I actually DID read it, but I am not seeing how it necessarily applies to the military. They do their own physical and psychiatric assessments of potential recruits do they not?

Seriously you don't see a problem with giving a person a weapon and sending them to a war zone if they have a mental disorder or are more suicidal? Or are more prone to become that way?

But maybe it ain't that easy to tell in advance who is a little bit suicidal or otherwise mentally unstable. When they induct in, they separate the males and females right off the bat, don't want any harassment charges, do we? So, if you are in the wrong group even though your physical body says you're in the right group then that right there is the signal that says we got a problem with this person. If you've already had your sex change then obviously it gets a little tougher, but basically if you've got a dick then you're treated as a male and if you don't then you're treated as a female. If you've got a problem with that then it's time for you to go.

 

[JoeMoma]

If a person meets all the tests and qualifications necessary to serve...why not?

Just who are we talking about?

1. Someone who "identifies" with the opposite sex?

2. Someone who acts like or dresses like the opposite sex?

3. Does this involve desiring sexual relations with the same/opposite sex?

4. Someone who has had or wants a sex change operation and/or hormonal therapy?

5. Are these good candidates for the military?

6.What if they claim to be female but display male genitalia during their medical examination?

7. Do they get to pick whether they are treated as men or women?

8. What if they conceal their gender dysphoria until after they are inducted and then demand reassignment and/or medical procedures?

9. Should the military be obligated to accommodate their desires?

5. It's up to the army to make that decision isn't it? Presumably transgenders have been serving for years, just not openly. Before changing policies prior presidents asked the military to study it and how it might effect military readiness and then went by their recommendations.

6. What if? Depends on the policy.

7. Depends on the policy.

9. So? If they served honorably, they should be treated like any other member of the military needing medical services.

Based on your #5, I beleive a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy is in order. Pre-op transgenders showering with their biological opposite sex is out of order.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

There is no indication that being transgender "isn't good" for the military or that transgender service members are disproportionately unfit for the job. Do you have any data to show that it is?

Other countries have no prohibitions against transgenders serving and don't seem to be adversely effected.

1. I don't care what other countries do, most of 'em are a little more into PC than we are. What works for them doesn't mean it'll work as well for us.

Maybe, maybe not. But military culture is similar across many countries. Looking at how it works in other countries, especially those with high quality militaries (like Israel) can provide information.

2. There are indeed studies that indicate transgenders might be disproportionately unfit for the job. These are not people you want to give weapons to and send them off to war. Guess you didn't read Post #10, so I'll re-post some of it:


The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Transgender People Have High Rates of Mental Illness

An endocrinologist in the early days of the sex change movement, Dr. Charles Ihlenfeld, administered cross-gender hormones to some 500 gender changers over six years. Based on his observations, Ihlenfeld sounded a warning in 1979 about hormone therapy and reassignment surgery: “There is too much unhappiness among people who have had the surgery,” he said. “Too many of them end as suicides.” Ihlenfeld retrained as a psychiatrist to be better equipped to treat the transgender population.

I actually DID read it, but I am not seeing how it necessarily applies to the military. They do their own physical and psychiatric assessments of potential recruits do they not?

I know about Israel. Trans don't serve in combat roles or any critical or sensitive areas.