Tolerant, Cosmopolitan, and Socially Liberal...

[Indeependent]

Too bad isn't anywhere near as open minded as the Arab or African nations...

 

[Street Juice]

The only people who make a fuss or who, or who is not, a Jew ... are non-Jews.

And Jewish loan officers, apparently:

Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury: Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deut 23:19, 20

 

[fncceo]

but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury

I wouldn't lend my brother a dime. He's a putz.

 

[rylah]

The only people who make a fuss or who, or who is not, a Jew ... are non-Jews.

And Jewish loan officers, apparently:

Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury: Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deut 23:19, 20

And then in return for the grain stored in Pharaoh's vaults,
Yosef demanded all the Egyptian males circumcise...

 

[Picaro]

The only people who make a fuss or who, or who is not, a Jew ... are non-Jews.

And Jewish loan officers, apparently:

Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury: Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deut 23:19, 20

A few years ago you would see signs in some windows about that, yes. Don't know about nowadays, but probably still a few around.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Jewishness part is even HOTLY debated in Israel..

Oh really, is that so?
Look around, this Halachah is basic knowledge even among gentiles.
Only a Jewish mother bears Jewish children. The law is actually very clear, and people know it.

Nothing to debate really.
Surveys show that in the US outside of the orthodox community, most don't know whether they actually have a minyan. And these seem to me the only ones who want to "debate" it, and also by coincidence tend to have non-Jewish grandchildren.

How can You debate that?

I did not mean that GENERALLY.. I was talking about the schisms that exist in the "spectrum of Jewishness" in Israel between secular and Ultra Orthodox.

But OK.., I'll accept that the "secular Israeli" is more dedicated and observant and religiously conservative than a "reform" American Jew.. Still -- there is debate there as to who "is worthy" of recognition of their "jewishness"..

 

[flacaltenn]

I admittedly know nothing about marriage laws in Israel. Upon a cursory search, it seems that Israeli law prohibits marriage between Jews and non-Jews. Is my understanding accurate?

The law allows various communities to formalize marrige according to their traditions.
Couples who choose not to affiliate with any community court,
can have what is called a 'Brit Zugiyut' or 'Couple Covenant'.

As for the state this is a full formal marriage, as well regarding kids.
But it might have various implications in each community formalities.

For example a flat civil marriage, would force the Druze community court
to marry non-Druze, which is fundamentally contradictory to their traditions.

The Druze are a good point. It's ABSOLUTE separation of "church" and state and FULL respect for religion -- even non-Jewish.. Thanks..

 

[flacaltenn]

But only here, not over there.

In 1967, it was Jewish activists who sued to overturn bans on interracial marriage in America, yet in 2020, the Jewish state retains the strictest miscegenation laws in the world. This is the subject of a new Press TV documentary on Israelis who are not allowed to marry by the country’s Rabbinate. Some couples use a loophole that allows them to marry abroad, but with COVID travel restrictions this has become impossible. The Zionist state does not allow its citizens to obtain a civil marriage. Jewish apologists will often assert that Israel’s marriage laws are primarily motivated by the population’s concern with religious tradition, but a Gallup survey has found that Israel is one of the least religious countries in the world. Under the rules set by the Rabbinate, a Jew who seeks to marry an individual who might be racially impure under Halakhic law must subject their spouse to DNA tests in order to prove their “genetic Jewishness.” Converts to Judaism and communities such as Ethiopian Jews are also largely banned from wedding. Though Israel’s population is 75% Jewish and the country is highly secular, 98% of Jews say their friends are mostly or only Jewish. 89% of Jews also say they would not accept their child marrying a Gentile, going as high as 97% were the theoretical partner a Muslim. While mixing in general is rare, the Israeli state funds initiatives every year intended to discourage Jews from dating outside their race. A street organization composed of Jewish men called Lehava patrol more cosmopolitan neighborhoods in Jerusalem and beat up interracial couples. Jews in the United States are also known as the people who pioneered gay marriage, but in Israel same-sex marriage is prohibited. In Israel marriage is a respected institution that enjoys fierce government protection. 50% of Jews marry by the age of 25, while in America only 29% of people between the ages of 18 to 34 are married. With 95% of American Jews affirming support for the state of Israel, the sincerity of our country’s vanguard of “tolerance,” cosmopolitanism and social liberalism ought to be brought into question. Erik Striker

It's almost like it's on purpose.

You're confusing a lot of stuff here. It's NOT an Israeli govt mandate to have the Rabbinate approve marriages.. THe govt has no RIGHT TO STOP THEM from approving marriages. You said yourself Israel is kinda a secular nation in terms of religiousity.. So there are 3 branches of Judaism.. Dont' have to rely on the "official Rabbinate" to approve a marriage.

Then you go confusing genetic tests for Jewishness with genetic tests for race.. Make up your mind. Which is it? The Jewishness part is even HOTLY debated in Israel.. Lots of disagreement about who is "Jewish enough".. So I have NO DOUBT that there are Arab/Jewish marriages, Black/White marriages and you'll be SHOCKED I'm sure to learn how TOLERANT Israel is to Gays..

So you are saying Israel offers civil marriages?

Not if the marriage OCCURS in Israel.. But if the people hop a short flight to Greece and get married or do it in NYCity with relatives -- the Israeli govt does recognize gay marriages, inter-racial, arab/jew marriages..

It's a compromise to keep the 8% of "promise keepers" in the Ultra Orthodox happy. If you get married OUTSIDE -- they have no power to force the govt NOT to recognize your marriage..

ooh wow... and how lame is that...

this type of hypocritical dealings are pretty common in the region...

It's not "hypocritical dealings" by the STATE of Israel.. They were FAR AHEAD of us in tolerance on gay rights and racial equality.. The "BARGAIN" made in the law there is an ABSOLUTE separation of church and state (in American speak) allowing that marriage is a religious ceremony in which the STATE will not mess with..

As Rylah pointed out above -- it's NOT JUST to placate the Ultra Orthodox Rabbinate (which BTW has adherents that don't want a "state government" at all) -- but this separation serves to PROTECT all religions that have different "marriage conceptualizations"..

 

[flacaltenn]

there were plenty of jewish scientists providing nazis too...

Actually, there weren't. Any Jew working in government or academia was dismissed by the Nazi government many years before the war. By the time World War II started in 1939, all Jews in German who weren't in hiding were either deported or sent to concentration camps.

I don’t think people realised what went on before, in the lead up to the actual Holocaust.

The turning point came when Jews in Germany were stripped of their German citizenship, and even then , when they fled to “safety”, it was like going from the frying pan into the fire.

with such toxic ideologies, you can never know when it will get out of control and consume everything around it...

hence people should never think twice to act against any tendencies...

white supremacist movements have immediate impact to anyone who are not in that tight circle...

and a president who cant openly condemn white supremacy, even when the question is asked openly, plain and simple, is as toxic as it gets...

Is that just another jibe at Trump?

not at all...

just defining a process here...

this is how it works in "human behavioral biology";

in an environment full of competition, you need to be in a group to be able to thrive...
thats in fact how jews did thrive in europe for centuries...
the same tendency is what supremacist ideology is based on...
hence they need all these bs definitions and terminologies to form a circle(like in the case of nazis we are discussing here)...

but the problem in the case of supremacist ideologies is that; the circle has to shrink smaller and smaller, with the competition increasing higher and higher...

so the people who think they are in the circle, one day find themselves kicked out of the circle...

thats why they cant see it coming till the last minute when it all turns against them...

some jews may think trump and his supremacist crowd giving them a ticket in the circle...

my humble advise would be caution and logic for those who feel comfortable in there...

Thanks for the advice.. Don't think we need it.. Just have to have authoritarians stop DIVIDING people with "group politics" and keep your filthy hands off my guns...

 

[K9Buck]

Jews in Israel have the tightest borders in the world outside maybe North Korea.

And Israel must, or else Arab terrorists will engage in acts of terror.

 

[rylah]

The Jewishness part is even HOTLY debated in Israel..

Oh really, is that so?
Look around, this Halachah is basic knowledge even among gentiles.
Only a Jewish mother bears Jewish children. The law is actually very clear, and people know it.

Nothing to debate really.
Surveys show that in the US outside of the orthodox community, most don't know whether they actually have a minyan. And these seem to me the only ones who want to "debate" it, and also by coincidence tend to have non-Jewish grandchildren.

How can You debate that?

I did not mean that GENERALLY.. I was talking about the schisms that exist in the "spectrum of Jewishness" in Israel between secular and Ultra Orthodox.

But OK.., I'll accept that the "secular Israeli" is more dedicated and observant and religiously conservative than a "reform" American Jew.. Still -- there is debate there as to who "is worthy" of recognition of their "jewishness"..

That's what I'm trying to explain,
there's no actually much spectrum to be schisming about,
as to the extent that the reform movement attempts to broaden it by defying
what most so called 'secular' Israelis view as 'Mosheh's Torah', to the point of defensive.

Again, on the same topic of marriage, there're many gays and pro-LGBT activist who while promoting reforms to ease marriage and parenting for gay couples, vocally defend against any attempts to defy the status of Rabinate or infringe on the values of tradition.

Take MK Amir Ohanah for example, he wants a certain reform in marriage formality from the state to ease it for the LGBT community to have kids and all the beauracracy. But he wouldn't move an inch in the direction of debating the Halachic definition of a Jew, or force the Rabbinate formalize LGBT couples. You know, a rare case of an actual liberal.

This is how Jews have always been, there was always a tribe of teachers,
and the more simple people, whom you might call 'secular Israelis'.
That 'debate' is a natural thing, between flock and shepherds.

But the debate You're talking about, started in Berlin, with the reform movement,
choosing to "debate the spectrum of Jewishness" by deciding among themselves
that their marriage to gentile women produced Jewish kids, while proclaming Berlin
the "new Jerusalem" and erasing any mention of her from the prayer books.

So much for THAT debate.

These are not people who's grandchildren are even going to identify as Jews,
and they want the debate only because it gives them appearance of validity
when they themselves know that it's a matter of one generation before,
there's no one to make their argument and their "temples" empty,
with the orthodoxy becoming steadily mainstream among,
those who's grandchildren will identify as Jews,
and have Jewish grandchildren themselves.

 

[Picaro]

Jews in Israel have the tightest borders in the world outside maybe North Korea.

And Israel must, or else Arab terrorists will engage in acts of terror.

Arabs have no room to snivel; there is that matter of some 2,000 years of running slaves from Africa to the ME and yet magically having no black people to speak of running around, or Slavs for that matter. This is why I find those NOI tards so hilarious with their ridiculous names they adopt 'cuz they don't want to use 'slave names' from Whitey'.

 

[K9Buck]

rylah

Do you or have you lived in Israel?

 

[rylah]

rylah

Do you or have you lived in Israel?

I'm Israeli.

What Arabs call Musta'arebi,
we returned from today's west Iraq,
after the Mongol conquests, around the same period as the Spanish expulsion.

 

[K9Buck]

I'm Israeli.

What Arabs call Musta'arebi,
we returned from today's west Iraq,
after the Mongol conquests, around the same period as the Spanish expulsion.

I ask because I would like to ask an objective, honest, Israeli questions about life in Israel. I may start a thread on it later and ask you some questions and hope that you are up to answering them. Thanks.

 

[rylah]

I'm Israeli.

What Arabs call Musta'arebi,
we returned from today's west Iraq,
after the Mongol conquests, around the same period as the Spanish expulsion.

I ask because I would like to ask an objective, honest, Israeli questions about life in Israel. I may start a thread on it later and ask you some questions and hope that you are up to answering them. Thanks.

Sure, I'd very much like a normal sincere discussion,
unfortunately seems kinda rare here.

 

[Unkotare]

It's a losing battle, Juice.

The average super patriotic american clown can't even recognise the zionist monster cock that's right inside his mouth, let alone something as "subtle", as "metaphysical", as "vaporous" as jewish political influence in America's immigration laws.

So you might just as well be preaching to your pets.

Anti-Semites are invariably irrational buffoons and sniveling cowards.

 

[Street Juice]

It's a losing battle, Juice.

The average super patriotic american clown can't even recognise the zionist monster cock that's right inside his mouth, let alone something as "subtle", as "metaphysical", as "vaporous" as jewish political influence in America's immigration laws.

So you might just as well be preaching to your pets.

Anti-Semites are invariably irrational buffoons and sniveling cowards.

Anti-Semitism (n) 1. noticing what Jews do; 2. saying what Jews did; 3. a mortal sin of which anyone in the world may be guilty except a Jew; 4. to be guilty of which requires nothing more than the accusation of such by any Jew.

 

[Unkotare]

It's a losing battle, Juice.

The average super patriotic american clown can't even recognise the zionist monster cock that's right inside his mouth, let alone something as "subtle", as "metaphysical", as "vaporous" as jewish political influence in America's immigration laws.

So you might just as well be preaching to your pets.

Anti-Semites are invariably irrational buffoons and sniveling cowards.

Anti-Semitism (n) 1. noticing what Jews do; 2. saying what Jews did; 3. a mortal sin of which anyone in the world may be guilty except a Jew; 4. to be guilty of which requires nothing more than the accusation of such by any Jew.

Does it make you feel better to have a pretend cause of everything you are afraid of in life, loser?

 

[fncceo]

In 1967, it was Jewish activists who sued to overturn bans on interracial marriage in America,

You're welcome ...