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To Serve & Protect OR Law & Order?

Stainmaster

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A friend of mine is a police officer in West Covina, and we were discussing police policy. We concluded that the idea of to 'Serve & Protect' is really a question. To serve and protect who? The answer could well be the wealthy citizenry.

Law and Order is really what police work is all about - the idea is keep problems quiet and out of sight of the public.

My friend, the Southern California officer pointed out that each community sees things differently. We discussed the multitude of problems people have with police in Santa Monica that are frequently on the local news. My friend's comment was most revealing. "Everything always looks great in Santa Monica if you have money to spend, but don't look for real help." Check out this short video, and think about needing help in affluent Santa Monica, California.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KonTIXbSA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KonTIXbSA[/ame]
 
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Diuretic

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I think both of you are correct, but it's a little more complex than that. The policing function is about protecting the status quo, whatever it is at any given time in a given place.

Through history and across the world there have been bodies involved in what we would call order maintenance functions. It's not just about protecting the wealthy, although it can look like that because order maintenance is about making sure there are no ructions in civil society. Even the much-lauded Robert Peel who put the New Police on the streets of London in 1829 was really putting out a more effective public order maintenance function than the military (see the Peterloo Massacre).
 

George Costanza

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Ideally, I would like to think that "To Protect and to Serve" means to protect everyone who comes into contact with the criminal justice system - both victims and suspects alike.

On a broader level, I think it means to protect the community. After all, that is what police are for: to insure an orderly and crime-free community.
 

The Rabbi

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I think Cumstainmaster is still sore about that weed charge.
 

editec

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To serve and protect...THE LAW.

Ideally, if the laws are just, that means they coincidently end up serving the people.

IF the laws of the land serve the people, that is....

No tyrant has EVER had trouble finding cops to serve and protect THEM exclusively, either, ya know?
 

chanel

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Small towns in my area do "community policing" and have a good relationship with the public. It can only happen in areas where there is mutual repect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in high crime areas.
 

George Costanza

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Small towns in my area do "community policing" and have a good relationship with the public. It can only happen in areas where there is mutual repect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in high crime areas.

It is easy for "mutual respect" to exist between law abiding citizens and the police. You are never going to see a police officer proning out the local bank president he stops for a minor traffic violation. Police officers can be (and invariably always are) very nice to "good" citizens. When has a police officer been anything except polite to you?

In high crime areas, the attitude of the police changes markedly. Not so nice to folks here. Lots more rudeness on the part of police toward citizens who appear to be potential criminals, whether they are or not. Here, your local bank president might get proned out if he got stopped for a minor traffic violation and happened to be black.

Good for small towns where community policing is something that can be done. Let's just not lose our perspective, however. It isn't that rosy everywhere else.
 

The Rabbi

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Small towns in my area do "community policing" and have a good relationship with the public. It can only happen in areas where there is mutual repect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in high crime areas.

It is easy for "mutual respect" to exist between law abiding citizens and the police. You are never going to see a police officer proning out the local bank president he stops for a minor traffic violation. Police officers can be (and invariably always are) very nice to "good" citizens. When has a police officer been anything except polite to you?

In high crime areas, the attitude of the police changes markedly. Not so nice to folks here. Lots more rudeness on the part of police toward citizens who appear to be potential criminals, whether they are or not. Here, your local bank president might get proned out if he got stopped for a minor traffic violation and happened to be black.

Good for small towns where community policing is something that can be done. Let's just not lose our perspective, however. It isn't that rosy everywhere else.

And it's mutual. Cops get abused all the time just because they wear the uniform. The average low life suffers no penalty for being rude and obnoxious while the cop can lose his job over something minor.
 
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Stainmaster

Stainmaster

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I think both of you are correct, but it's a little more complex than that. The policing function is about protecting the status quo, whatever it is at any given time in a given place....

I thinkyou have summed this up very well, and those who benefit from the status quo the most are the wealthy.
 

Skull Pilot

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The police do not protect you.

All they can do is react after the crime has been committed.

You want protection? Arm yourself.
 

editec

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Small towns in my area do "community policing" and have a good relationship with the public. It can only happen in areas where there is mutual repect. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in high crime areas.

It is easy for "mutual respect" to exist between law abiding citizens and the police. You are never going to see a police officer proning out the local bank president he stops for a minor traffic violation. Police officers can be (and invariably always are) very nice to "good" citizens. When has a police officer been anything except polite to you?

In high crime areas, the attitude of the police changes markedly. Not so nice to folks here. Lots more rudeness on the part of police toward citizens who appear to be potential criminals, whether they are or not. Here, your local bank president might get proned out if he got stopped for a minor traffic violation and happened to be black.

Good for small towns where community policing is something that can be done. Let's just not lose our perspective, however. It isn't that rosy everywhere else.

And it's mutual. Cops get abused all the time just because they wear the uniform. The average low life suffers no penalty for being rude and obnoxious while the cop can lose his job over something minor.



What universe do you live in?

I invite you to go verbally abuse a cop pretty much anywhere in this nation and just see how quickly you'll find your ass in lockup.
 

manu1959

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as far as i can tell the police show up after you are dead....or have been robbed...not sure they prevent crimes....
 

The Rabbi

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It is easy for "mutual respect" to exist between law abiding citizens and the police. You are never going to see a police officer proning out the local bank president he stops for a minor traffic violation. Police officers can be (and invariably always are) very nice to "good" citizens. When has a police officer been anything except polite to you?

In high crime areas, the attitude of the police changes markedly. Not so nice to folks here. Lots more rudeness on the part of police toward citizens who appear to be potential criminals, whether they are or not. Here, your local bank president might get proned out if he got stopped for a minor traffic violation and happened to be black.

Good for small towns where community policing is something that can be done. Let's just not lose our perspective, however. It isn't that rosy everywhere else.

And it's mutual. Cops get abused all the time just because they wear the uniform. The average low life suffers no penalty for being rude and obnoxious while the cop can lose his job over something minor.



What universe do you live in?

I invite you to go verbally abuse a cop pretty much anywhere in this nation and just see how quickly you'll find your ass in lockup.

I live in a universe where my reality is not determined by watching cop shows on TV. That's what separates us.
I'd suggest going to talk to some cops sometime.
 

del

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And it's mutual. Cops get abused all the time just because they wear the uniform. The average low life suffers no penalty for being rude and obnoxious while the cop can lose his job over something minor.



What universe do you live in?

I invite you to go verbally abuse a cop pretty much anywhere in this nation and just see how quickly you'll find your ass in lockup.

I live in a universe where my reality is not determined by watching cop shows on TV. That's what separates us.
I'd suggest going to talk to some cops sometime.

i was going to suggest you go shit in your hat, but i'm sure someone already has.

nevermind
 

The Rabbi

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What universe do you live in?

I invite you to go verbally abuse a cop pretty much anywhere in this nation and just see how quickly you'll find your ass in lockup.

I live in a universe where my reality is not determined by watching cop shows on TV. That's what separates us.
I'd suggest going to talk to some cops sometime.

i was going to suggest you go shit in your hat, but i'm sure someone already has.

nevermind

Actually no one on this board is so arrogant, rude, vulgar and thoughtless as to suggest that.
And that includes Shogun.
Another first for you!
 

del

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I live in a universe where my reality is not determined by watching cop shows on TV. That's what separates us.
I'd suggest going to talk to some cops sometime.

i was going to suggest you go shit in your hat, but i'm sure someone already has.

nevermind

Actually no one on this board is so arrogant, rude, vulgar and thoughtless as to suggest that.
And that includes Shogun.
Another first for you!

go shit in your hat
 

The Rabbi

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i was going to suggest you go shit in your hat, but i'm sure someone already has.

nevermind

Actually no one on this board is so arrogant, rude, vulgar and thoughtless as to suggest that.
And that includes Shogun.
Another first for you!

go shit in your hat

No, you've used that one already.
Foul. In the penalty box for the next 25 posts. Sorry.
 

del

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lawbuff

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A friend of mine is a police officer in West Covina, and we were discussing police policy. We concluded that the idea of to 'Serve & Protect' is really a question. To serve and protect who? The answer could well be the wealthy citizenry.

Your city was involved in a SC case, West Covina v. Perkins was a SC case about SW procedure, just as a FYI.

On topic, the courts have generally ruled that there is "NO duty to protect" unless a "special relationship" is established. This means they can sit all day and not patrol and even if a murder occurs that may have been prevented by patroling, as the primary duty of patrol is "crime prevention", they are immune from Civil suit.
 

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