Tiny Houses...the ultimate insanity?

[jillian]

One of the trends of millennials is minimalism; rejecting the materialism and excesses of my generation.
But Tiny Houses?
How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

there have always been people who liked downsizing their lives..... at least temporarily.

what percentage of "millenniels" do you believe makes this a "trend" as opposed to something people are doing.

and maybe people would rather live in something affordable that is small than live someplace where they have to hear their neighbor's television through the walls.

also an awful lot of people are now out of the housing market because middle class wages aren't keeping up with inflation (which we've been saying for a long time)

finally, you're awfully judgmental about something you don't understand.

just saying.

 

[jillian]

I finally had time/energy to investigate this matter I was unable to find an easy chart for historical mortgage rates because they oft varied from bank to bank and state to state so there was no real standard value in "early history" - however, I found historical home prices which we can roughly extrapolate on a calculator - I'll be using 3.5% annual interest rate 30yr to figure the monthly cost. (IIRC mortgage interest rates have varied from 3 to 7% in general, I'll later try to find exact interest rates for the past 6 years to make a decent comparison.)

Historical home cost - Historical Census of Housing Tables Home Values - Housing Topics - U.S. Census Bureau
Historical rent - Historical Census of Housing Tables - Gross Rents
Historical household income - Median Household Income in the United States

(Unadjusted Values are used - bottom charts on housing cost & rent)
1970 - Median household income $7,701 = $641.75/m
1970 - Median home price $12,200 = $55/m -- 8.57% of monthly income
1970 - Median rent $108/m -- 16.83% of monthly income

1980 - Median household income $16,671 = $1,389.25/m
1980 - Median home price $47,200 = $212/m -- 15.26% of monthly income
1980 - Median rent $243/m -- 17.49% of monthly income

1990 - Median household income $28,680 = $2,390/m
1990 - Median home price $53,700 = $241 -- 10.08% of monthly income
1990 - Median rent $447/m -- 18.70% of monthly income

2000 - Median household income $41,446 = $3,456.83/m
2000 - Median home price $119,600 = $537/m -- 15.53% of monthly income
2000 - Median rent $602/m -- 17.41% of monthly income

So on average rent ratios to income has not really changed since the 70's, mortgage ratios are the only thing that changed, and other than the jump in ratios from the 70s (which I recall is when we started to see housing regulations enforced) and the drop in ratios during the 90s recession it's relatively stable there as well. Also not even today is the median rent a quarter of income.

Still, it is safe to say that buying is /always/ better than renting; not only is it cheaper, but it is an investment.-- Perhaps it would be better to compare annual cost ratios to get a better feel for the ratios, but I'm out of time here.

When I have some more free time/desire I'll try to find 2000-2014 averages (and the mortgage interest rates) and see if there's a major change there (with the housing bubble pop and recession, I'd actually expect the ratio of cost of home to income would go down, while the ratio of rent to income stays relatively the same.)

I'm going to point out that the first link of yours that I clicked on came up as "dubious/unsavory" in my filter.

just saying.

 

[daws101]

One of the trends of millennials is minimalism; rejecting the materialism and excesses of my generation.
But Tiny Houses?
How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

How does buying jeans with holes in them make any sense?

How does getting a peircing through ones navel make any sense?

How does calling Rap music make any sense?

How does voting for Obama a SECOND TIME make any sense?

And yet lots of stupid white people do this stuff.

This post belongs in the stupid post hall of fame.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm going to point out that the first link of yours that I clicked on came up as "dubious/unsavory" in my filter.

just saying.

LOL your filter doesn't like the US governments pages? It's the same census.gov site as the second one heh

 

[jillian]

I'm going to point out that the first link of yours that I clicked on came up as "dubious/unsavory" in my filter.

just saying.

LOL your filter doesn't like the US governments pages? It's the same census.gov site as the second one heh

the one I clicked on was not the fist link in your post.

if it was the US govt, my filter wouldn't have blocked it.

try again

 

[jillian]

One of the trends of millennials is minimalism; rejecting the materialism and excesses of my generation.
But Tiny Houses?
How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

again, what percentage of millennials choose "tiny houses"?

I know about minimalism and cutting down on possessions, but tiny houses are not simply cutting down the number of shoes you have.

 

[Dhara]

Tiny houses versus Mc Mansions. Makes sense to me.

 

[jillian]

I'm going to point out that the first link of yours that I clicked on came up as "dubious/unsavory" in my filter.

just saying.

LOL your filter doesn't like the US governments pages? It's the same census.gov site as the second one heh

the one I clicked on was not the fist link in your post.

if it was the US govt, my filter wouldn't have blocked it.

last I checked davemanuel.com isn't a government site either

try again

 

[ClosedCaption]

How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

The reason it doesnt make sense is because you're lying. Tiny homes dont cost that much

 

[Katzndogz]

One of the trends of millennials is minimalism; rejecting the materialism and excesses of my generation.
But Tiny Houses?
How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

Why would you think that the toilet doesn't flush?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Some people like to live on boats, some people like RV's and some people enjoy boat/RV sized houses. In the greatest Country in the world the choice (so far) is yours.

I'll see if I can dig up what I was reading. but it suggested Obambam's goones from Hud or one of those Wonderful Guberment agencies was going to make living in an RV. illegal. according to them, they are suppose to only be used for traveling. so these tiny homes with wheels will eventually be out lawed by our MASTERS WHO make our rules that we have to abide

I read that...just another way for the government to control us. The truth is that the tiny house movement is as much about getting off the grid and away from the taxes as it is about minimalism.

Which of course the government cant have because they lose the taxes.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

The reason it doesnt make sense is because you're lying. Tiny homes dont cost that much

It all depends on what you have done.
Luxury Turnkey Tiny Cabin Combines Rustic And Modern Aesthetic | iDesignArch | Interior Design, Architecture & Interior Decorating eMagazine

If you're talking about a garden shed with a bed and a chemical toilet yeah it's cheap.

 

[ClosedCaption]

How is it not the ultimate insanity to pay up to $160 per sq ft. of living space? You have insane people paying as much as $100,000 when all done...for a "home" and small land parcel that doesn't have a toilet that flushes.
How does this make sense?

The reason it doesnt make sense is because you're lying. Tiny homes dont cost that much

It all depends on what you have done.
Luxury Turnkey Tiny Cabin Combines Rustic And Modern Aesthetic | iDesignArch | Interior Design, Architecture & Interior Decorating eMagazine

If you're talking about a garden shed with a bed and a chemical toilet yeah it's cheap.

Of course it does but again, Even that home doesnt cost $100K and the OP presented it like $100K with no toilet is the norm. Its not, thats why it didnt make sense.

 

[Picaro]

I finally had time/energy to investigate this matter I was unable to find an easy chart for historical mortgage rates because they oft varied from bank to bank and state to state so there was no real standard value in "early history" - however, I found historical home prices which we can roughly extrapolate on a calculator - I'll be using 3.5% annual interest rate 30yr to figure the monthly cost. (IIRC mortgage interest rates have varied from 3 to 7% in general, I'll later try to find exact interest rates for the past 6 years to make a decent comparison.)

Historical home cost - Historical Census of Housing Tables Home Values - Housing Topics - U.S. Census Bureau
Historical rent - Historical Census of Housing Tables - Gross Rents
Historical household income - Median Household Income in the United States

(Unadjusted Values are used - bottom charts on housing cost & rent)
1970 - Median household income $7,701 = $641.75/m
1970 - Median home price $12,200 = $55/m -- 8.57% of monthly income
1970 - Median rent $108/m -- 16.83% of monthly income

1980 - Median household income $16,671 = $1,389.25/m
1980 - Median home price $47,200 = $212/m -- 15.26% of monthly income
1980 - Median rent $243/m -- 17.49% of monthly income

1990 - Median household income $28,680 = $2,390/m
1990 - Median home price $53,700 = $241 -- 10.08% of monthly income
1990 - Median rent $447/m -- 18.70% of monthly income

2000 - Median household income $41,446 = $3,456.83/m
2000 - Median home price $119,600 = $537/m -- 15.53% of monthly income
2000 - Median rent $602/m -- 17.41% of monthly income

So on average rent ratios to income has not really changed since the 70's, mortgage ratios are the only thing that changed, and other than the jump in ratios from the 70s (which I recall is when we started to see housing regulations enforced) and the drop in ratios during the 90s recession it's relatively stable there as well. Also not even today is the median rent a quarter of income.

Still, it is safe to say that buying is /always/ better than renting; not only is it cheaper, but it is an investment.-- Perhaps it would be better to compare annual cost ratios to get a better feel for the ratios, but I'm out of time here.

When I have some more free time/desire I'll try to find 2000-2014 averages (and the mortgage interest rates) and see if there's a major change there (with the housing bubble pop and recession, I'd actually expect the ratio of cost of home to income would go down, while the ratio of rent to income stays relatively the same.)

That's great. Now use a calculator to calculate the 'median income' of a room containing 99 people with an income of $20K a year and one guy with an income of $2 billion ...


Also the Peanut Gallery can do some research and find that well into the 1960's taking out a 7 year mortgage was considered risky by many working class families, while today, despite the frequency of career changes and job changes and incomes lagging far behind inflation, 30 year mortgages are the 'norm', so yes, the 'monthly percentages' look close to historical values, but that's just because of the longer terms involved, and which in fact are more costly relative to equity..

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's pretty much the only feasible response to a housing industry that is only building homes for the high income few. There is a really dire shortage of affordable housing at the mid and lower end of the 'market' now, plus the fact that having to change jobs every two or three years and move to stay even moderately employed is also becoming the 'norm' as well.

Anybody priced lumber and drywall, paint, etc., lately? It's high, and of pretty crappy quality to boot these days.

The biggest problem is affordable housing is usually in a bad neighborhood.
The wife and I bought our first house in 90 I believe and it was $74k. Crime was none existent.
Sold it 13 years later for $120K because of all the mexicans that moved in and the crime rate skyrocketed.

 

[Tresha91203]

Apartment buildings being built here are very, very small sleeping areas with a tv in the wall. Kitchens and bathrooms are communal. There is also a large room like a social room where there are work stations to plug in your laptop. The idea is that people aren't going to spend that much time at home. When I was looking for an apartment I ran across these places. Rent started at a thou a month.

Sounds like the 21st century commune has arrived. There's a lot to be said for communal living if you're wired for it. You lose a lot of individual freedoms, though, so its not for everyone. I can do it with enough space. I guess im more compound mentality than communal.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The skyrocketing of the cost of renting an apartment is the cause of this. Many rents, even in poorer areas, is approaching the cost of a house payment a month. The gap is getting very narrow. If you listen to those who go the tiny house route they say "rent is burning money, better to pay it into equity than flush it down the toilet".

But since buying a normal sized home requires a large down-payment, the tiny home option is the most appealing and has the biggest bang for the buck.

Rent here is absolutely outrageous.
ONE Bdrm apartments in a decent complex is averaging $750-$800 a month. ONE bedroom.
So...what you are saying makes sense actually.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

Stop voting for Republicans.

Excuse me moron, what alternative universe do you live in?

.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The skyrocketing of the cost of renting an apartment is the cause of this. Many rents, even in poorer areas, is approaching the cost of a house payment a month. The gap is getting very narrow. If you listen to those who go the tiny house route they say "rent is burning money, better to pay it into equity than flush it down the toilet".

But since buying a normal sized home requires a large down-payment, the tiny home option is the most appealing and has the biggest bang for the buck.

Rent here is absolutely outrageous.
ONE Bdrm apartments in a decent complex is averaging $750-$800 a month. ONE bedroom.
So...what you are saying makes sense actually.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

Stop voting for Republicans.

Excuse me moron, what alternative universe do you live in?

.

Have no fear,Barry is creating another housing bubble so the prices should be dropping soon...
http://nypost.com/2016/03/12/obama-is-setting-us-up-for-another-housing-crash/

 

[Wyatt earp]

The skyrocketing of the cost of renting an apartment is the cause of this. Many rents, even in poorer areas, is approaching the cost of a house payment a month. The gap is getting very narrow. If you listen to those who go the tiny house route they say "rent is burning money, better to pay it into equity than flush it down the toilet".

But since buying a normal sized home requires a large down-payment, the tiny home option is the most appealing and has the biggest bang for the buck.

Rent here is absolutely outrageous.
ONE Bdrm apartments in a decent complex is averaging $750-$800 a month. ONE bedroom.
So...what you are saying makes sense actually.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

I think nationally rent use to be 1/4 of household income, now it is approaching 1/2. Something has to give.

Stop voting for Republicans.

Excuse me moron, what alternative universe do you live in?

.

Have no fear,Barry is creating another housing bubble so the prices should be dropping soon...
http://nypost.com/2016/03/12/obama-is-setting-us-up-for-another-housing-crash/

Yup I read that a year or so ago.



.

 

[OldLady]

People here have been living in tiny houses (read sheds, hunting camps, and old campers) for years. Fortunate the HUD man doesn't get out this way, much. I don't really see why the government needs to be involved. If towns want to zone some of them away from fancy neighbors, that's a town issue.