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Time To Stop Using Kid Gloves With The Obstinate "No To The Vaccine" Crowd!

Rigby5

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FALSE, the CDC thinks it is a valid tool to deal with the FLU and should be used early in the illness time frame:

What You Should Know About Flu Antiviral Drugs


Can flu be treated?​

Yes. There are prescription medications called “antiviral drugs” that can be used to treat flu illness. CDC recommends prompt treatment for people who have flu infection or suspected flu infection and who are at high risk of serious flu complications, such as people with asthma, diabetes (including gestational diabetes), or heart disease.

What antiviral drugs are recommended this flu season?​

There are four FDA-approved antiviral drugs recommended by CDC to treat flu this season.

  • oseltamivir phosphate (available as a generic version or under the trade name Tamiflu®),
  • zanamivir (trade name Relenza®)
  • peramivir (trade name Rapivab®), and
  • baloxavir marboxil (trade name Xofluza®).
Generic oseltamivirexternal icon and Tamiflu® are available as a pill or liquid suspension and are FDA approved for early treatment of flu in people 14 days and older. Zanamivir is a powder that is inhaled and approved for early treatment of flu in people 7 years and older. (Note: Zanamivir (trade name Relenza®) is administered using an inhaler device and is not recommended for people with breathing problems like asthma or COPD.) Oseltamivir and zanamivir are given twice a day for 5 days. Peramivir is given once intravenously by a health care provider and is approved for early treatment of flu in people 2 years and older. Baloxavir is a pill given as a single dose by mouth and is approved for early treatment of flu in people 12 years and older. (Note: Baloxavir (trade name Xofluza®) is not recommended for pregnant women, breastfeeding mothers, outpatients with complicated or progressive illness, or hospitalized patients because there is no information about use of baloxavir in these patients.)

======

They are not crude and have been used for many years now. There is a LOT of ongoing research to create more of them.

Antiviral drug


Wrong.
The CDC is clear about there being risks to anti-viral drugs.
For example, they said:
{... CDC recommends prompt treatment for people who have flu infection or suspected flu infection and who are at high risk of serious flu complications, such as people with asthma, diabetes (including gestational diabetes), or heart disease. ...}
They do not recommend anti-virals for everyone. They specifically are saying that anti-virals are worth the risk if you already are in a high risk group from the flu itself. They also said they are, "not recommended for people with breathing problems like asthma or COPD". They also are, "not recommended for pregnant women, breastfeeding mothers, outpatients with complicated or progressive illness, or hospitalized patients".

And anti-virals do not totally wipe out any virus, just slightly reduce their symptoms. They are not at all like antibiotics. A virus is not really alive, so they can be very hard to kill.
 

Bob Blaylock

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Rye Catcher

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Rye Catcher

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Nonsense.
If we had NOT "flattened the curve", then twice as many would died the first month, but then it would have been over.
We would not have had the additional 550,000 deaths that are still going to keep on coming, forever.

And by the way, I am vastly far more left wing, progressive, liberal, socialist, than anyone else on this entire board.
LOL. To be left wing and progressive, liberal and socialist suggests - if true - you're schizophrenic. You would have to be conservative too; even far right given your beliefs on the "final solution", allowing millions of Americans to suffer and die waiting for herd immunity.
 

Rigby5

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LOL. To be left wing and progressive, liberal and socialist suggests - if true - you're schizophrenic. You would have to be conservative too; even far right given your beliefs on the "final solution", allowing millions of Americans to suffer and die waiting for herd immunity.

That is stupid.
We have already gone over the fact flu is about the same lethality and infectiousness as covid-19.
Covid-19 has an R0 of only 2, and a lethality of only 0,02%.
So then you should be asking yourself why flu only lasts a month, while covid-19 seems to be going on forever?
Well it is obvious what the answer is, that we are preventing herd immunity from ending covid-19, by our deliberately "flattening the curve".

And regardless of the fact I am far left, I find it incredibly offensive, partisan, and just plain stupid to claim the right would gain anything by needless deaths. If anyone has anything to gain, it would be big pharma, who is selling the vaccines, tests, etc.

Every epidemic in the world has always been ended by herd immunity, from Polio to Ebola, and yet you believe covid-19 is some new miracle threat that can't be defeated as all the other epidemics have been, through herd immunity.
Obviously completely brainwashed and unable to think for yourself.
 

krichton

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Can you guarantee that there will be no long term ill effects from the vaccine, Jim? I don't put things in my body that I don't know about. Anyone that does...in my opinion...is a fool. I had Covid a year and a half ago. It was a mild case. I subsequently donated plasma twice and both times showed anti bodies to the virus. So why is it you think I should risk getting jabbed?

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You say there will be long term ill effects. Ok. Prove it.
 

krichton

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LOL. To be left wing and progressive, liberal and socialist suggests - if true - you're schizophrenic. You would have to be conservative too; even far right given your beliefs on the "final solution", allowing millions of Americans to suffer and die waiting for herd immunity.

Oh didn't you know. Medicine practiced in the 1800s and further back was so much better than it is now! Also, how hard would it be to simply round up every american at gunpoint and expose them to massive amounts of covid in order to ensure they've been adequately infected, thus achieving herd immunity!
 

freyasman

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The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You say there will be long term ill effects. Ok. Prove it.
No, you want others to take it, first you prove there aren't any.
 

Rigby5

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The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You say there will be long term ill effects. Ok. Prove it.
Absolute nonsense!
The burden of proof is always on the one making the item others are being told to ingest.
And if you support the maker, then you have to prove it is safe as well.
If someone tells me the flesh eating bacteria is good for me and will help me lose weight, it is not up to me to prove otherwise.
No one is making a claim the mRNA vaccine for sure will kill, but clearly it can, it has, and it could kill every one who took it eventually.
The time span in which it can establish a fatal allergic reaction, is infinite.
That is the whole point of why it is risky to fool around with the immune system like that.
 

Rigby5

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Oh didn't you know. Medicine practiced in the 1800s and further back was so much better than it is now! Also, how hard would it be to simply round up every american at gunpoint and expose them to massive amounts of covid in order to ensure they've been adequately infected, thus achieving herd immunity!

Medicine was never as profit motivated and irresponsible as it is now.
I would not put it past big pharma to have deliberately release covid-19 just for the test and vaccine profits.

Last March you did not have to infect everyone in order to gain herd immunity.
Since about half the population started out inherently immune already, and the infection has not spread so far yet, you only needed about 30 million people to recover. And you did not have to force anyone. It was the police using force to prevent people from being able to go out in public without masks. And knowing when infected, it would have been trivial to keep them from the vulnerable during their infection. In 2 weeks it would all have been over, last March, with fewer than 60,000 deaths total.
That would have been 550,000 lives saved.
 

Rigby5

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Oh didn't you know. Medicine practiced in the 1800s and further back was so much better than it is now! Also, how hard would it be to simply round up every american at gunpoint and expose them to massive amounts of covid in order to ensure they've been adequately infected, thus achieving herd immunity!

Name any epidemic that was ended by vaccines while in progress?
You can't, because there isn't any.
Vaccines prevent the next epidemic, but have NEVER ended one.
For example, the Polio epidemic of 1948 was essentially already over by the time the Salk vaccine became available in 1957.

Point being that we have not really progressed from the 1800s, but now suddenly are just pretending we know so much about the immune system that we can train it with a fake synthetic vaccine. That is incredible hubris.
 
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Oldestyle

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The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You say there will be long term ill effects. Ok. Prove it.
Where did I ever say that there will be long term ill effects? What I stated is that we don't have any idea what the long term ill effects may or may not be! You want to force me to take the vaccine? Then isn't inherent on YOU to prove to me that there are no long term ill effects?
 

krichton

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Where did I ever say that there will be long term ill effects? What I stated is that we don't have any idea what the long term ill effects may or may not be! You want to force me to take the vaccine? Then isn't inherent on YOU to prove to me that there are no long term ill effects?

I won't need to. When you're in the ICU for delta you'll know then.
 

freyasman

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I won't need to. When you're in the ICU for delta you'll know then.
And when none of that happens and we're all just fine?
Then what?

What imaginary bugaboo will you try to scare us all with next?
 

Canon Shooter

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It is heartbreaking to hear about all those people in America intentionally choosing not to take the pandemic vaccine! They are really letting down America besides the loss of life the other really terrible thing about the pandemic is how it is hurting the economy and the functioning of our society the longer this disease has a stranglehold over America the longer the nation will continue to incur major losses with businesses not being able to function properly even in some cases being permanently shuttered and individual Americans having the ability to make a living for themselves and their family being dramatically harmed! The stakes here for the country are enormous and the nation is now in a state where the significant numbers of Americans refusing to get vaccinated so the country can reach strong herd immunity and be done with the onerous restrictions like mask wearing associated with the pandemic provides the nation's authorities with the moral justification to take very aggressive steps to bring about people doing their civic duty and getting vaccinated unless they have a valid medical reason not to! The government should mandate that health insurance companies calculate the enormous medical costs on them brought about by enrollees and their family being admitted into the hospital with the Covid 19 disease and who were not vaccinated and mandate that the insurance companies pass this cost onto unvaccinated enrollees in the form of higher health insurance premiums; what is fair is fair if you're being recalcitrant in not getting the vaccine you can pay for the cost that this wrongful action of yours is causing society - hospital administrators are telling us that like ninety plus percent of the admissions with Covid 19 are from people that were not vaccinated. States should mandate that for children to be able to attend school they need to receive the Covid 19 vaccine unless they have a Doctor's note saying that they have a good medical basis for being excused from getting the vaccine (for the age group eligible for the vaccine), state's mandate the measles's vaccine and the polio vaccine state's do it because they don't want these diseases spreading in schools well they shouldn't want the Covid 19 spreading in schools either so they should take this reasonable step to stop the spread!

What really gets me sick to my stomach is all these right wing talk radio hosts and right wing cable news hosts condemning state and federal authorities for initiating and running programs where they send staff to people's individual homes advocating for the residents of the home to get their pandemic vaccine. These hosts paint these efforts as something out of the George Orwell novel "1984" about a dark futuristic world where the government does constant surveillance of their citizens when they label these efforts as "Big Brother is watching you" efforts; or these hosts try to tarnish these efforts as HIPAA violations, the law which mandates personal health information be kept private! These hosts and the producers of these programs and the authorities that control these media outlets are behaving like sleazy, selfish Americans who chase ratings at the expense of the well-being of the entire country, shame on you and if you keep it up I hope the stain on your reputation lasts a long time!

What really makes me sick to my stomach is run-on sentences...
 

Rye Catcher

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Medicine was never as profit motivated and irresponsible as it is now.
I would not put it past big pharma to have deliberately release covid-19 just for the test and vaccine profits.

Last March you did not have to infect everyone in order to gain herd immunity.
Since about half the population started out inherently immune already, and the infection has not spread so far yet, you only needed about 30 million people to recover. And you did not have to force anyone. It was the police using force to prevent people from being able to go out in public without masks. And knowing when infected, it would have been trivial to keep them from the vulnerable during their infection. In 2 weeks it would all have been over, last March, with fewer than 60,000 deaths total.
That would have been 550,000 lives saved.
What's you goal? And why and what Medical Degree have you achieved to post your self claimed expertise in Epidemiology?

IMO, what you are doing is putting biddable fools in harms way. The only reasons for doing so are you profit from fear mongering and/or enjoy the attention.

 

Rigby5

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What's you goal? And why and what Medical Degree have you achieved to post your self claimed expertise in Epidemiology?

IMO, what you are doing is putting biddable fools in harms way. The only reasons for doing so are you profit from fear mongering and/or enjoy the attention.

That's ridiculous.
Obviously my goal is the lowest possible death toll, which would have been if we accelerated infection last March, and ended the epidemic then with herd immunity from the initial spike.
That is how epidemic normally always end.
Obviously the new strategy of "flattening the curve" was not based on saving lives, but selling vaccine doses.
Nor have I ever said to trust my opinion on anything; instead I have always explained the strategy or mechanism so anyone can look up the details themselves if they want.
You claim I am lying for profit of attention, both of which makes zero sense because I am not selling a thing, and no one knows who I am.
 

Rye Catcher

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That's ridiculous.
Obviously my goal is the lowest possible death toll, which would have been if we accelerated infection last March, and ended the epidemic then with herd immunity from the initial spike.
That is how epidemic normally always end.
Obviously the new strategy of "flattening the curve" was not based on saving lives, but selling vaccine doses.
Nor have I ever said to trust my opinion on anything; instead I have always explained the strategy or mechanism so anyone can look up the details themselves if they want.
You claim I am lying for profit of attention, both of which makes zero sense because I am not selling a thing, and no one knows who I am.

"IMO, what you are doing is putting biddable fools in harms way. The only reasons for doing so are you profit from fear mongering and/or enjoy the attention."

I stand by my opinion; we are all anonymous and I have no doubt you seek the attention. Bye-bye.
 

Rigby5

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"IMO, what you are doing is putting biddable fools in harms way. The only reasons for doing so are you profit from fear mongering and/or enjoy the attention."

I stand by my opinion; we are all anonymous and I have no doubt you seek the attention. Bye-bye.

And by what basis do you feel so sure of yourself?
Never before has "flattening the curve" ever end any epidemic, or been a successful strategy.
While this time a vaccine did not take 9 years like it did for Polio, but it was just luck the SARS vaccine worked.
If not for these mRNA vaccines, we would have been killing half a million people for at least 5 years or so.
It would have been only about 60k deaths to go with herd immunity on the initial spike, by accelerating it as much as possible, with young volunteers.
There is no way you can contradict that obvious science.
 

krichton

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No, you want others to take it, first you prove there aren't any.

Vaccines only allow your body to recognize what a certain virus looks like. What are you imagining in your fevered anti vax dreams to suggest long term negative side effects? When has that ever occurred with vaccines?
 

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