Those "Poor" Doctors

[Revere]

33 states (if I remember) have capped non-economic damages at around $250K.

Yet, we are still talking about Tort Reform.

What does that tell you?

It tells me those states don't make the loser pay the winner if the loser is the plaintiff.

Why should we implement "loser pay" for civil wrongs? We don't send the accusers to prison when the defendants aren't convicted.

Don't mix civil and criminal law. The cost of defending spurious malpractice suits incentivized providers and insurers for setting out of court.

 

[Revere]

Most diseases are not preventable.

Most diseases, are in fact, preventable.

With the exception of genetic and autoimmune diseases, I can think of few diseases that aren't preventable.

Are you going to post a government agent at the door of McDonalds or arrest parents who buy their kids Happy Meals?

How much ******* control of people will you demand?

 

[geauxtohell]

It tells me those states don't make the loser pay the winner if the loser is the plaintiff.

Why should we implement "loser pay" for civil wrongs? We don't send the accusers to prison when the defendants aren't convicted.

Don't mix civil and criminal law. The cost of defending spurious malpractice suits incentivized providers and insurers for setting out of court.

Why wouldn't I mix them? The law seeks to redress wrongs. A tort is a civil wrong.

However, when your solution is applied to the criminal world, all of a sudden it appears ludicrous.

 

[Revere]

Why should we implement "loser pay" for civil wrongs? We don't send the accusers to prison when the defendants aren't convicted.

Don't mix civil and criminal law. The cost of defending spurious malpractice suits incentivized providers and insurers for setting out of court.

Why wouldn't I mix them? The law seeks to redress wrongs. A tort is a civil wrong.

However, when your solution is applied to the criminal world, all of a sudden it appears ludicrous.

Oh, there are no civil remedies for false arrest?

 

[geauxtohell]

Most diseases are not preventable.

Most diseases, are in fact, preventable.

With the exception of genetic and autoimmune diseases, I can think of few diseases that aren't preventable.

Are you going to post a government agent at the door of McDonalds or arrest parents who buy their kids Happy Meals?

How much ******* control of people will you demand?

Of course not. I am refuting your asinine point. People can make their choices and live with the consequences. When it comes to what we put in our body, the consequences are disease.

I am not demanding any control over anyone. Your non sequitur is idiotic.

 

[geauxtohell]

Don't mix civil and criminal law. The cost of defending spurious malpractice suits incentivized providers and insurers for setting out of court.

Why wouldn't I mix them? The law seeks to redress wrongs. A tort is a civil wrong.

However, when your solution is applied to the criminal world, all of a sudden it appears ludicrous.

Oh, there are no civil remedies for false arrest?

Civil and possibly criminal. What is your point?

 

[Revere]

Most diseases, are in fact, preventable.

With the exception of genetic and autoimmune diseases, I can think of few diseases that aren't preventable.

Are you going to post a government agent at the door of McDonalds or arrest parents who buy their kids Happy Meals?

How much ******* control of people will you demand?

Of course not. I am refuting your asinine point. People can make their choices and live with the consequences. When it comes to what we put in our body, the consequences are disease.

I am not demanding any control over anyone. Your non sequitur is idiotic.

Just because you merely refute a point doesn't make it asinine.

Your utopia for "preventable diseases" would demand much control over people's lifestyles.

 

[geauxtohell]

Just because you merely refute a point doesn't make it asinine.

Your utopia for "preventable diseases" would demand much control over people's lifestyles.

Except you didn't refute anything.

I haven't created a "utopia" for preventable disease. I am just pointing out the facts.

 

[Revere]

You statists are a scream. Always pushing back against people.

 

[geauxtohell]

You statists are a scream. Always pushing back against people.

Every time you morons use the term "statist" your IQ falls nine points.

Now, to address the meat of your otherwise meatless post: how have I pushed back?

 

[Revere]

Yeah, we're all going to listen to fat asses like Michelle Obama lecture us on "nutrition" and "preventable diseases" and concoct yet another Federal foodie program.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yeah, we're all going to listen to fat asses like Michelle Obama lecture us on "nutrition" and "preventable diseases" and concoct yet another Federal foodie program.

What in the **** are you blabbering about?

Since you obviously have your own agenda and no interest in discussing the topic at hand, I suggest starting your own thread.

Here, I'll hand you a title:

"You can have my Big Mac when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!!!!!!!!!!"

You are welcome.

 

[Gadawg73]

Physicians have no say about what BigPharma does? LOL.
You know nothing about politics. The medical lobby is as powerful or more powerful as the pharma lobby.

I am from Missouri (really).

Show me.

Guess why now over half of adults eat prescription dope daily and in 1960 it was 15%.
Viagra is on race cars dude. Doctors MARKET the expensive drugs and get kickbacks from the insurance companies to write the generic ones.

Doctors don't market shit. You think the AMA is sponsoring the Viagra racecar and paying Smiling Bob? No. That would be Pfizer.

If you have proof of any Doctor receiving any sort of financial incentive from a pharmaceutical company to prescribe one drug over another, you should notify your state board of healing arts. That's beyond unethical. It's illegal.



Most diseases are preventable. I don't see what your point is. People come to physicians when they are generally beyond the "prevention stage", though we all believe in preventative medicine (have you heard my vaccine schpeel on here yet?).

It's not Doctors sticking that cigarette in people's mouth our pumping them full of Big Macs.



I agree. Why wouldn't a "specialty" anything be more profitable than a "general" anything? And you are talking to someone who wants to be a generalist.



I am sorry to hear about your trouble. I am not sure why that happened and I won't try to guess. However, I doubt it was some sort of fraudulent activity. For whatever it is worth, that is completely the opposite of what we are told to do. Have you read anything by Bill Colby on this matter?

96% of the population receiving 40% of all health care dollars AND GROWING. You may believe that is a good health care model for society but it isn't.

Good healthcare for society is for Americans to get off their fat asses and exercise, eat healthy, and stop smoking.

I am not holding my breath that that is what is going to happen.

Again, Doctors didn't invent cardiovascular disease, COPD, or Diabetes. They just treat it. What is the alternative? You seem to want to blame the people who are trying to squeeze every ounce of life out of patients who have made a lifetime's worth of bad decisions.

The facts are also that 40% of the remaining health care dollars spent in the US go to treat the remaining 96% of the population.
And 8 out of the 9 diseases treated with that disease care model are preventable.
Cha ching.

Would you please elaborate more on the "disease care model"? You really haven't told me what it is. Just a lot of wild eyed accusations and a very sad anecdote.

Contrary to your beliefs, there isn't some magic box with magic cures for diseases that the medical industry is keeping under lock and key so they can profit off of human suffering.

The only people that claim otherwise are guys like this:

Kevin Trudeau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We spend 60% of all health care dollars on 4% of the population and the system is geared towards servicing that population. 90% of those dollars arespent on disease care.
If you do not understand the basics of supply and demand then forget it. Buy an economics book. The $$ follows the demand. The business model follows the $$$. Econ 101 for dummies.
"Doctors don't market shit"
Free samples TO DOCTORS, 30 BILLION ******* DOLLARS IN 2004 from dope peddlers are 60% of dope peddlers advertising budget Moe. And their ad budget is FAR MORE than their research. You believe that the doctors just let those free samples sit in a box somewhere?
They hand them out like candy. And you claim that is not marketing for the drug companies? LOL, man you need an education.
Respectfully, you are very, extremely naive and gullible but I will give you a pass as you sound like you are very young. Doctors market their expensive equipment daily. I had stomach trouble and was refered to an urologist. He talked me into an expensive test, a MRI. The next doctor I went to for a 2nd opinion advised that the test that the other doctor gave was not even relative to what his own diagnosis was. I obtained a report and opinion from that doctor in writing and submitted it to the first doctor and was refunded the $1300 that I paid for the test.
All the while you claim doctors do not "market shit". LOL.
Well, not shit but they market everything else.
Wild ass accusations Moe? Fact is you have nothing but hot air about the fact that 60% of all health care dollars are spent on 4% of the population for disease care leaving 40% of health care dollars for the other 96% of the population. Nothing on earth comes close to that and you dodge that fact like a monkey on fire.
Where did I say there were magic cures for diseases? You are making shit up as you go because you have no argument based on the facts.
I have 2 cousins as doctors and an aunt. Mom was a RN and I work with doctors regularly in my work. Argue the facts and the $$$.

 

[geauxtohell]

We spend 60% of all health care dollars on 4% of the population and the system is geared towards servicing that population. 90% of those dollars arespent on disease care.
If you do not understand the basics of supply and demand then forget it. Buy an economics book. The $$ follows the demand. The business model follows the $$$. Econ 101 for dummies.
"Doctors don't market shit"
Free samples TO DOCTORS, 30 BILLION ******* DOLLARS IN 2004 from dope peddlers are 60% of dope peddlers advertising budget Moe. And their ad budget is FAR MORE than their research. You believe that the doctors just let those free samples sit in a box somewhere?
They hand them out like candy. And you claim that is not marketing for the drug companies? LOL, man you need an education.
Respectfully, you are very, extremely naive and gullible but I will give you a pass as you sound like you are very young. Doctors market their expensive equipment daily. I had stomach trouble and was refered to an urologist. He talked me into an expensive test, a MRI. The next doctor I went to for a 2nd opinion advised that the test that the other doctor gave was not even relative to what his own diagnosis was. I obtained a report and opinion from that doctor in writing and submitted it to the first doctor and was refunded the $1300 that I paid for the test.
All the while you claim doctors do not "market shit". LOL.
Well, not shit but they market everything else.
Wild ass accusations Moe? Fact is you have nothing but hot air about the fact that 60% of all health care dollars are spent on 4% of the population for disease care leaving 40% of health care dollars for the other 96% of the population. Nothing on earth comes close to that and you dodge that fact like a monkey on fire.
Where did I say there were magic cures for diseases? You are making shit up as you go because you have no argument based on the facts.
I have 2 cousins as doctors and an aunt. Mom was a RN and I work with doctors regularly in my work. Argue the facts and the $$$.

1.) I am 32 years old, a combat veteran, and in my third year of medical school. Cut out the "I'll take it easy on you, because you are young and niave" bullshit.

2.) The argument you think you are making is not as coherent as the argument that you think you are making. Frankly, your point comes across as a rant. What is the 4% of the population that you are talking about? The chronically sick? Why should I be surprised that we are spending most of our money treating them? If these are people with conditions like Diabetes, Asthma, CVAs, CHF, and COPD (which can't be cured) why are you blaming physicians for the pathophysiology of the body? It would be great if we could "cure" diabetes. However, many conditions we can only manage. If you've ever seen someone with a CHF exascerbation that is swollen to the point where their body water is gushing through their calves, you'd understand. At any rate, just make your point without the hyperbole and hystrionics. What exactly do you mean by "Disease Care Model"? I think I know, but I don't want to assume.

3.) The doctors I work with give out free samples to the patients who can't afford their regular medications. So, now that we admit that Pfizer and not physicians, sponser the pharmaceutical direct advertisements, are we moving on to free samples? It's a silly point. People can't directly buy any prescription drug without a doctor's prescription. So it's beyond a little absurd to claim that free samples are some sort of insidious marketing ploy on unsuspecting patients. Even if a patient inquires about a drug they've seen advertised on television, it's up to the physician to give them the straight story. Again, despite your claims to the contrary, this is not a kick-back operation. It sucks when you need to discharge a patient on Levaquin, but you can't because they can't afford it and have to go with a lesser antibiotic. In the part of the healthcare industry I am exposed too (inner city hospital with a patient population that is almost 100% medicaid), drug affordability is a major issue. If you discharge someone on medications they can't afford, you might as well discharge them with a pat on the back.

4.) Again, I am sorry you have had bad experiences. That's not a commentary on the system as a whole. Furthermore, obtaining an MRI is pretty routine. I don't know what your issue was, but it wouldn't surprise me if your first doctor thought it was necessary to rule out some other pathology or issue and not graft, which you are convinced that it is. Some physicians are just more liberal in their ordering of labs and imagining. I'll admit that this is a part of the system that I haven't experienced as we CT and MRI the shit out of our patients with little regard to cost as Medicaid is picking up the tab (and, no, the physicians are on fixed salary and receive no extra money for additional tests ordered). Kind of ironic, huh?

 

[Gadawg73]

We spend 60% of all health care dollars on 4% of the population and the system is geared towards servicing that population. 90% of those dollars arespent on disease care.
If you do not understand the basics of supply and demand then forget it. Buy an economics book. The $$ follows the demand. The business model follows the $$$. Econ 101 for dummies.
"Doctors don't market shit"
Free samples TO DOCTORS, 30 BILLION ******* DOLLARS IN 2004 from dope peddlers are 60% of dope peddlers advertising budget Moe. And their ad budget is FAR MORE than their research. You believe that the doctors just let those free samples sit in a box somewhere?
They hand them out like candy. And you claim that is not marketing for the drug companies? LOL, man you need an education.
Respectfully, you are very, extremely naive and gullible but I will give you a pass as you sound like you are very young. Doctors market their expensive equipment daily. I had stomach trouble and was refered to an urologist. He talked me into an expensive test, a MRI. The next doctor I went to for a 2nd opinion advised that the test that the other doctor gave was not even relative to what his own diagnosis was. I obtained a report and opinion from that doctor in writing and submitted it to the first doctor and was refunded the $1300 that I paid for the test.
All the while you claim doctors do not "market shit". LOL.
Well, not shit but they market everything else.
Wild ass accusations Moe? Fact is you have nothing but hot air about the fact that 60% of all health care dollars are spent on 4% of the population for disease care leaving 40% of health care dollars for the other 96% of the population. Nothing on earth comes close to that and you dodge that fact like a monkey on fire.
Where did I say there were magic cures for diseases? You are making shit up as you go because you have no argument based on the facts.
I have 2 cousins as doctors and an aunt. Mom was a RN and I work with doctors regularly in my work. Argue the facts and the $$$.

1.) I am 32 years old, a combat veteran, and in my third year of medical school. Cut out the "I'll take it easy on you, because you are young and niave" bullshit.

2.) The argument you think you are making is not as coherent as the argument that you think you are making. Frankly, your point comes across as a rant. What is the 4% of the population that you are talking about? The chronically sick? Why should I be surprised that we are spending most of our money treating them? If these are people with conditions like Diabetes, Asthma, CVAs, CHF, and COPD (which can't be cured) why are you blaming physicians for the pathophysiology of the body? It would be great if we could "cure" diabetes. However, many conditions we can only manage. If you've ever seen someone with a CHF exascerbation that is swollen to the point where their body water is gushing through their calves, you'd understand. At any rate, just make your point without the hyperbole and hystrionics. What exactly do you mean by "Disease Care Model"? I think I know, but I don't want to assume.

3.) The doctors I work with give out free samples to the patients who can't afford their regular medications. So, now that we admit that Pfizer and not physicians, sponser the pharmaceutical direct advertisements, are we moving on to free samples? It's a silly point. People can't directly buy any prescription drug without a doctor's prescription. So it's beyond a little absurd to claim that free samples are some sort of insidious marketing ploy on unsuspecting patients. Even if a patient inquires about a drug they've seen advertised on television, it's up to the physician to give them the straight story. Again, despite your claims to the contrary, this is not a kick-back operation. It sucks when you need to discharge a patient on Levaquin, but you can't because they can't afford it and have to go with a lesser antibiotic. In the part of the healthcare industry I am exposed too (inner city hospital with a patient population that is almost 100% medicaid), drug affordability is a major issue. If you discharge someone on medications they can't afford, you might as well discharge them with a pat on the back.

4.) Again, I am sorry you have had bad experiences. That's not a commentary on the system as a whole. Furthermore, obtaining an MRI is pretty routine. I don't know what your issue was, but it wouldn't surprise me if your first doctor thought it was necessary to rule out some other pathology or issue and not graft, which you are convinced that it is. Some physicians are just more liberal in their ordering of labs and imagining. I'll admit that this is a part of the system that I haven't experienced as we CT and MRI the shit out of our patients with little regard to cost as Medicaid is picking up the tab (and, no, the physicians are on fixed salary and receive no extra money for additional tests ordered). Kind of ironic, huh?

Why are there 100,000 dope sales reps in America today?
What citizen has ever seen one of those sales reps?
Who do those sales reps call on? How often? Why do they call on each doctor every 2 weeks on average every 2 weeks, all year, every year?
Who pays for Continuing Medical Education junkets at luxury resorts?
I am happy for you. Have fun at them as you have the stones to come on here and debate and voice your opinion. I am glad you are going to be a doctor. I can tell you have ethics and character. Maybe one day you can treat the dawg. I have a very good physician now as he takes the time to listen to me. Over the years, and in my playing days, I have had knee, shoulder, ankle and ham string trouble. I trusted the tape guy trainer in those days more than the doctor! "You are ok, get back out there". Took on too many 300 lb. OL in my day. And saw many a player and former player get bad medical advice time and time again.
I disagree with you and know first hand how many doctors operate. However, not all of them are that way and you have the guts to stand up for what you believe.
Good luck to you Doc.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why are there 100,000 dope sales reps in America today?
What citizen has ever seen one of those sales reps?
Who do those sales reps call on? How often? Why do they call on each doctor every 2 weeks on average every 2 weeks, all year, every year?
Who pays for Continuing Medical Education junkets at luxury resorts?
I am happy for you. Have fun at them as you have the stones to come on here and debate and voice your opinion. I am glad you are going to be a doctor. I can tell you have ethics and character. Maybe one day you can treat the dawg. I have a very good physician now as he takes the time to listen to me. Over the years, and in my playing days, I have had knee, shoulder, ankle and ham string trouble. I trusted the tape guy trainer in those days more than the doctor! "You are ok, get back out there". Took on too many 300 lb. OL in my day. And saw many a player and former player get bad medical advice time and time again.
I disagree with you and know first hand how many doctors operate. However, not all of them are that way and you have the guts to stand up for what you believe.
Good luck to you Doc.

Thank you. Sometimes I feel like physicians are being blamed for the larger problems in the system in the same manner that people blamed the soldiers for the stupidity of Viet Nam. It's illogical. I don't like the pharmaceutical companies either, and I think direct marketing of drugs is immoral, but it's a by-product of the system we have and, from my very small viewpoint, they are generally used to help patients who can't afford them.

Case in point, yesterday my Doctor and I spent about an hour figuring out creative ways to get medications to a patient who could afford them because their income was seasonal. Half of the medications came from the hospital's free pharmacy which is stocked by samples.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why are there 100,000 dope sales reps in America today?
What citizen has ever seen one of those sales reps?
Who do those sales reps call on? How often? Why do they call on each doctor every 2 weeks on average every 2 weeks, all year, every year?
Who pays for Continuing Medical Education junkets at luxury resorts?
I am happy for you. Have fun at them as you have the stones to come on here and debate and voice your opinion. I am glad you are going to be a doctor. I can tell you have ethics and character. Maybe one day you can treat the dawg. I have a very good physician now as he takes the time to listen to me. Over the years, and in my playing days, I have had knee, shoulder, ankle and ham string trouble. I trusted the tape guy trainer in those days more than the doctor! "You are ok, get back out there". Took on too many 300 lb. OL in my day. And saw many a player and former player get bad medical advice time and time again.
I disagree with you and know first hand how many doctors operate. However, not all of them are that way and you have the guts to stand up for what you believe.
Good luck to you Doc.

Thank you. Sometimes I feel like physicians are being blamed for the larger problems in the system in the same manner that people blamed the soldiers for the stupidity of Viet Nam. It's illogical. I don't like the pharmaceutical companies either, and I think direct marketing of drugs is immoral, but it's a by-product of the system we have and, from my very small viewpoint, they are generally used to help patients who can't afford them.

Case in point, yesterday my Doctor and I spent about an hour figuring out creative ways to get medications to a patient who could afford them because their income was seasonal. Half of the medications came from the hospital's free pharmacy which is stocked by samples.

In 1966-1968 my brother was in Nam. Mom about had a nervous break down. Tough times for our family as I was 11 when he went.
Good luck.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why are there 100,000 dope sales reps in America today?
What citizen has ever seen one of those sales reps?
Who do those sales reps call on? How often? Why do they call on each doctor every 2 weeks on average every 2 weeks, all year, every year?
Who pays for Continuing Medical Education junkets at luxury resorts?
I am happy for you. Have fun at them as you have the stones to come on here and debate and voice your opinion. I am glad you are going to be a doctor. I can tell you have ethics and character. Maybe one day you can treat the dawg. I have a very good physician now as he takes the time to listen to me. Over the years, and in my playing days, I have had knee, shoulder, ankle and ham string trouble. I trusted the tape guy trainer in those days more than the doctor! "You are ok, get back out there". Took on too many 300 lb. OL in my day. And saw many a player and former player get bad medical advice time and time again.
I disagree with you and know first hand how many doctors operate. However, not all of them are that way and you have the guts to stand up for what you believe.
Good luck to you Doc.

Thank you. Sometimes I feel like physicians are being blamed for the larger problems in the system in the same manner that people blamed the soldiers for the stupidity of Viet Nam. It's illogical. I don't like the pharmaceutical companies either, and I think direct marketing of drugs is immoral, but it's a by-product of the system we have and, from my very small viewpoint, they are generally used to help patients who can't afford them.

Case in point, yesterday my Doctor and I spent about an hour figuring out creative ways to get medications to a patient who could afford them because their income was seasonal. Half of the medications came from the hospital's free pharmacy which is stocked by samples.

In 1966-1968 my brother was in Nam. Mom about had a nervous break down. Tough times for our family as I was 11 when he went.
Good luck.

Wow. Your brother did two back-to-back tours during some of the worst years in the war.

Deployments are harder on the family, IMO. When a soldier is deployed, he knows when he is in danger and when he is safe. In my experience, the adage about combat being 99% boredom and 1% sheer terror is right.

However, the poor family has no idea if their loved one is in danger or safely behind the wire and always assume the worst.

I know my deployment took years off my father's life. That's the only part about my service that I regret.

Thanks again.