This might explain the Noah's Ark parable in the bible

[Woodznutz]

Not quite - an adult usually won't pick up a Bible, if he hadn't already encountered it as a child.
Same goes for Comics, TV or any other form of entertainment, right down to sports and hobbies - Kids get started on them - and later most Adults keep up the interest, again promoting it towards their own and other kids.

It's the primary reason for lefty&Libs, religious groups and dictatorship's to get the "youth" inspired aka indoctrinated.

I meant mature adult Christians.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well, to "refute" the story with some science, here we go.

1) To take two of every animal on board an ark requires a lot of effort. Well, actually a little more complicated

"You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"

Seven animals, a male and his female.... and one left over? Anyway, not really important here.

How did they classify animals? For example dogs, did they put two dogs on board, or did they put two dogs of every type of dog on board?

How did they feed the animals? Some of these animals are CARNIVORES which means that they need to eat other animals. Did they put two of every animal and then let the lions eat some of those species to extinction?

How did they cope with the fish? Fish are animals. What would be the point? Also said take two of every bird. How did Noah go around collecting the birds and what did he feed them with?

1,180 bird species right now.

How many birds are there in the world?

New research estimates there are between 50 billion and 430 billion birds on Earth.

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk

So, he'd have to have gone out there and caught bird species in the Amazon area, in Africa, in Asia, in Australasia. How did Noah get out there and capture this many bird species?

How did he get all the land animals? All the insects?

How many species are there?

How many species do we share our planet with? How many of these species have we found and identified?

ourworldindata.org

2.16 million species, he put at least 2 of every species, that's 4.32 million creatures on board. All of them needing to eat for 40 days and 40 nights. Then, after the flood receded, what happened to all the edible food?

How long would he have needed to keep these animals alive for before there was enough food for them to all eat after the flood?

I mean, this task would be nigh on IMPOSSIBLE in the modern era with modern technology. With a boat made of wood, built by some dude and his family. How long would it have taken to build a boat that could have 4 million creatures on board?

We don't know the 'how' of it, which animals went on the ark and which were regenerated after the flood. God gathered them to the ark. Those details are scarce. What is known is that the ark was huge and was a sophisticated vessel.

Regarding the construction of the ark, it took over 100 years to build, and likely took thousands of workers and artisans. The project would have been well known throughout the region.

 

[Kruska]

I meant mature adult Christians.

Doesn't matter if mature or immature adult - fact is that every adult used to be a kid - and that is were he got confronted with religion and the Bible as a first.

I don't know what or why, you would want to discuss about that fact.

 

[Woodznutz]

Doesn't matter if mature or immature adult - fact is that every adult used to be a kid - and that is were he got confronted with religion and the Bible as a first.

I don't know what or why, you would want to discuss about that fact.

Not everyone has the same history regarding the Bible and religion. For example, I was destined to go into the church, my brother and sister were not, in fact my liberal atheist sister was very distressed over it.

We had a large, rather ornate KJV Bible at home, just another unused book in the cabinet. I opened it up from time to time as a child, but it meant nothing to me one way or another, until I was grown and called into the church. I have read and studied it now for nearly fifty years. It still amazes me.

 

[Meriweather]

fact is that every adult used to be a kid - and that is were he got confronted with religion and the Bible as a first.

Confronted? Do you consider children also being confronted with parents, clothing, and the food set before them?

The real question is how many of these "confronted" children ever stopped splashing in the shallows of the story (animals on an ark) and dove deeper into the depths of the theme and lesson being taught? How many animals fit into an ark is similar to how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Who cares. It is a distraction.

 

[Woodznutz]

The pigeons that Noah released - found land after his third try - "upon the water residing" that covered the entire earth.

The dove returned the second time with an olive leaf, indicating that the waters were receding, and the regeneration of the land had begun.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We don't know the 'how' of it, which animals went on the ark and which were regenerated after the flood. God gathered them to the ark. Those details are scarce. What is known is that the ark was huge and was a sophisticated vessel.

Regarding the construction of the ark, it took over 100 years to build, and likely took thousands of workers and artisans. The project would have been well known throughout the region.

No, the Bible says God told Noah to do it.

"Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood."
Yes, the Ark was "huge", how could it be "a sophisticated vessel"? This was a time when a boat was just a boat. Nothing sophisticated about boats in those days.
"likely took thousands of workers".... so you don't know?

We're talking the science here. The science of gathering the animals wasn't done by God, God isn't science. You don't have a scientific answer as to how they got all the animals, how they classified them, how they managed to breed afterwards with only a small number and not end up destroying themselves through inbreeding....

The Ark, well.... it was huge. We can create huge vessels now, but a thousand years ago the largest vessels we could make couldn't hold anywhere near this number.

The Wyoming (ironic isn't it, a place with no sea) was the largest ever wooden ship constructed, Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia

140m long

"Because of her extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold."

Too big, too big for the wood that it was made out of, so it caused problems. And you're telling me without the technology of 100 years ago, they were able to build one a thousand times bigger. NOT A CHANCE.

 

[surada]

It wasn't that kind of flood.

There are salt deposits all over the world in catchment areas, as would be expected.

salt deposits in catchment regions - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

The flood didn't affect the high mountain regions, only the high hills where people lived. "High mountains" is a mistranslation.

The salt flats go back millions of years. Remember, we have geologists.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, the Bible says God told Noah to do it.

"Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood."
Yes, the Ark was "huge", how could it be "a sophisticated vessel"? This was a time when a boat was just a boat. Nothing sophisticated about boats in those days.
"likely took thousands of workers".... so you don't know?

We're talking the science here. The science of gathering the animals wasn't done by God, God isn't science. You don't have a scientific answer as to how they got all the animals, how they classified them, how they managed to breed afterwards with only a small number and not end up destroying themselves through inbreeding....

The Ark, well.... it was huge. We can create huge vessels now, but a thousand years ago the largest vessels we could make couldn't hold anywhere near this number.

The Wyoming (ironic isn't it, a place with no sea) was the largest ever wooden ship constructed, Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia

140m long

"Because of her extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold."

Too big, too big for the wood that it was made out of, so it caused problems. And you're telling me without the technology of 100 years ago, they were able to build one a thousand times bigger. NOT A CHANCE.

Noah was the general contractor. Even with 100 years one man wouldn't be able to construct such a building.

God brought the animals to the ark; Noah's job was to gather the food. Noah was told to bring the animals into the ark, not to gather them. Not in the story but the animals were likely well fattened before going on the voyage. Once in the ark it was likely 'maintenance rations'.

20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

Whatever the number of animals the ark was big enough for all of them and needed supplies.

The ark was a floating warehouse, not a boat or ship. Even the terminology suggests a building, not a ship. Terms like floors, stories, window, door, rooms; not shipbuilding terms. The ark was fitted out with all necessary systems within as well. The Bible just doesn't go into great detail about it.

Wasn't the Wyoming in service for several years before it sank in storm? Ships are made to navigate regardless of conditions, which makes them vulnerable to stresses of seas and winds. The ark "went on the flood" so it moved in relatively calm water, no stresses as experienced by ships.

 

[Woodznutz]

The salt flats go back millions of years. Remember, we have geologists.

Of course. The earth was flooded many times in many places. Noah's flood was the last global flood.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Noah was the general contractor. Even with 100 years one man wouldn't be able to construct such a building.

God brought the animals to the ark; Noah's job was to gather the food. Noah was told to bring the animals into the ark, not to gather them. Not in the story but the animals were likely well fattened before going on the voyage. Once in the ark it was likely 'maintenance rations'.

20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

Whatever the number of animals the ark was big enough for all of them and needed supplies.

The ark was a floating warehouse, not a boat or ship. Even the terminology suggests a building, not a ship. Terms like floors, stories, window, door, rooms; not shipbuilding terms. The ark was fitted out with all necessary systems within as well. The Bible just doesn't go into great detail about it.

Wasn't the Wyoming in service for several years before it sank in storm? Ships are made to navigate regardless of conditions, which makes them vulnerable to stresses of seas and winds. The ark "went on the flood" so it moved in relatively calm water, no stresses as experienced by ships.

Yes, the Ark was an impossibility. Even with today's technology it'd be difficult to have such a thing being stable.

"Make the boat 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high"

I mean, such a boat would not be big enough for all the animals on the planet.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say God was going to bring the animals to the Ark.

Well, any story is going to have things that just have to fit to make it work. Based on SCIENCE which is what we're talking about, the Ark simply wasn't big enough.

So there's something wrong. Either it wasn't all animals. In which case how did new animals exist? Or it was all animals and the Ark was way, WAY too small.

A floating warehouse in the times we're talking about simply doesn't work. Boats were boats, and the largest wooden boat ever was 140 meters long or 450ft. Same length and it was a disaster boat.

"reflecting a cargo capacity of 303,600 cubic feet (8,600 m3)"

No way it would have been able to hold the number of animals required.

Yes, the Wyoming sand in 1924, 15 years after it was launched, and was built with modern knowledge and modern technology.

 

[Kruska]

Of course. The earth was flooded many times in many places. Noah's flood was the last global flood.

There wasn't any Global flood as portrait in the Bible - especially not after the last Ice age around 27000 years ago.

I loved to read that book - all these killings, wars and devastation - fascinating. I started to read and discuss about it from age 7 to age 9. With age nine/ten I confronted our religion teacher "Brother McNelly" to the extend, that he forbid me to attend his religious class.

What amazes me however, is the fact that "believers" aren't able to conclude simple math - making use of their own Bible and it's texts.

E.g.

Adam to Seth — 130 years

Seth to Enosh — 105 years

Enosh to Kenan — 90 years

Kenan to Mahalalel — 70 years

Mahalalel to Jared — 65 years

Jared to Enoch — 162 years

Enoch to Methuselah — 65 years

Methuselah to Lamech —187 years

Lamech to Noah —182 years

According to this method, the time from Adam to Noah was approximately 1,056 years.

That you don't question the "virility" of a supposed 130 year old Adam to produce an offspring is understood.

That you don't question the age of e.g. Noah (950 years) is understood.

So we have Noah’s birth, which occurred about 1,056 years after the creation of Adam. Then, in Genesis 7:11, we are told that the flood came in the 600th year of Noah’s life, so that would mean the Great Flood came approximately 1,656 years after Adam was created in Eden.

Using a similar method (how many years from Noah to Abraham to Moses - using the Bible) places the creation of Adam and Eve at around 4004 BC. So, doing the math, Noah’s flood occurred in approximately 2348 BC. or around 1200 years before Moses.

That places Moses at around 1100 B.C. (give or take a 100 years) - which coincides almost perfectly with the Egypt Steele that for the first time records the term Israel (destroyed) dated at around 1150 B.C.

Therefore according to your own book - Adam and Eva were created around 4004 B.C.

That you don't question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 10000 B.C., having erected stone dwellings and stone carvings, is understood.

That you don't question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 18000 B.C., having left beautiful cave drawings, is understood.

As for sediment structures:

• The stair-stepped appearance of erosion of sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon with sandstones and limestones forming cliffs and shales forming gentle slopes cannot happen if all these rocks were deposited in less than one year. If the Grand Canyon had been carved soon after these rocks were deposited by a worldwide flood, they would not have had time to harden into solid rock and would have been saturated with water. Therefore, the sandstones and limestones would have slumped during the carving of the canyon and would not have formed cliffs.
• Salt and gypsum deposits, more than 200 feet thick, occur in the Paradox Formation in Utah just 200 miles north of the Grand Canyon, and these deposits are the same age as the Supai rocks in the Grand Canyon that were supposedly also deposited by Noah’s flood. Similar salt deposits, up to 3,000 feet thick, exist in various places on all continents and in layers of all geologic ages, and these deposits can only be produced by evaporation of sea water. Such evaporation could not have happened in repeated intervals in the midst of the forty days and forty nights of raining and during the supposed continuous deposition of sedimentary rocks by a worldwide flood and in which the only drying and evaporation is said to have occurred at the end of the flood

That you don't question the Biblical Flood - despite the irrefutable geological evidence available - is also understood.

Therefore enjoy your personal belief that provides no proof whatsoever - but factually is in absolute contradiction to rock solid proven Facts. Starting right off with Adam & Eve.

You stated: Noah was the general contractor....

Where in the Bible is a Noah Ship Inc. mentioned that e.g. hired workers or subcontracted the building of the Arc?
You simply come up with that tale, because somehow you started to realize that Noah alone could never have build such a ship aka the Ark.
Have you ever worked on a Farm? if you would then you would also realize that the feeding of all these animals could never have been undertaken by simply Noah and his family. Absolutely NO WAY - it's therefore needless to even speculate about the amount of food that would have been needed to store. Especially since the according to the Bible - God never mentioned as to how long that rain and flood is supposed to last. !!
Not to mention where they got the Bamboo sprouts (need to be fresh every day) for e.g. Pandas or daily fresh Eucalyptus leaves for them Aussie Koalas.

It's a book - (written 3000 years ago taking the average none existing knowledge and education of adults into account) therefore no one expected questions from a matured and educated adult with the knowledge of the 19th century onward - BTW those who questioned it before the 19th century, were burned on the stake etc. Since that can't be done anymore - the Bible simply hasn't got any convincing answers to defend it's content.

For someone to believe in a God or a "Superior Being" is one thing - to base one's believes onto the Bible is something different altogether.

Discussion over on my part - thanks.

 

[Woodznutz]

There wasn't any Global flood as portrait in the Bible - especially not after the last Ice age around 27000 years ago.

I loved to read that book - all these killings, wars and devastation - fascinating. I started to read and discuss about it from age 7 to age 9. With age nine/ten I confronted our religion teacher "Brother McNelly" to the extend, that he forbid me to attend his religious class.

What amazes me however, is the fact that "believers" aren't able to conclude simple math - making use of their own Bible and it's texts.

E.g.

Adam to Seth — 130 years

Seth to Enosh — 105 years

Enosh to Kenan — 90 years

Kenan to Mahalalel — 70 years

Mahalalel to Jared — 65 years

Jared to Enoch — 162 years

Enoch to Methuselah — 65 years

Methuselah to Lamech —187 years

Lamech to Noah —182 years

According to this method, the time from Adam to Noah was approximately 1,056 years.

That you don't question the "virility" of a supposed 130 year old Adam to produce an offspring is understood.

That you don't question the age of e.g. Noah (950 years) is understood.

So we have Noah’s birth, which occurred about 1,056 years after the creation of Adam. Then, in Genesis 7:11, we are told that the flood came in the 600th year of Noah’s life, so that would mean the Great Flood came approximately 1,656 years after Adam was created in Eden.

Using a similar method (how many years from Noah to Abraham to Moses - using the Bible) places the creation of Adam and Eve at around 4004 BC. So, doing the math, Noah’s flood occurred in approximately 2348 BC. or around 1200 years before Moses.

That places Moses at around 1100 B.C. (give or take a 100 years) - which coincides almost perfectly with the Egypt Steele that for the first time records the term Israel (destroyed) dated at around 1150 B.C.

Therefore according to your own book - Adam and Eva were created around 4004 B.C.

That you don't question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 10000 B.C., having erected stone dwellings and stone carvings, is understood.

That you don't question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 18000 B.C., having left beautiful cave drawings, is understood.

As for sediment structures:

• The stair-stepped appearance of erosion of sedimentary rocks in the Grand Canyon with sandstones and limestones forming cliffs and shales forming gentle slopes cannot happen if all these rocks were deposited in less than one year. If the Grand Canyon had been carved soon after these rocks were deposited by a worldwide flood, they would not have had time to harden into solid rock and would have been saturated with water. Therefore, the sandstones and limestones would have slumped during the carving of the canyon and would not have formed cliffs.
• Salt and gypsum deposits, more than 200 feet thick, occur in the Paradox Formation in Utah just 200 miles north of the Grand Canyon, and these deposits are the same age as the Supai rocks in the Grand Canyon that were supposedly also deposited by Noah’s flood. Similar salt deposits, up to 3,000 feet thick, exist in various places on all continents and in layers of all geologic ages, and these deposits can only be produced by evaporation of sea water. Such evaporation could not have happened in repeated intervals in the midst of the forty days and forty nights of raining and during the supposed continuous deposition of sedimentary rocks by a worldwide flood and in which the only drying and evaporation is said to have occurred at the end of the flood

That you don't question the Biblical Flood - despite the irrefutable geological evidence available - is also understood.

Therefore enjoy your personal belief that provides no proof whatsoever - but factually is in absolute contradiction to rock solid proven Facts. Starting right off with Adam & Eve.

You stated: Noah was the general contractor....

Where in the Bible is a Noah Ship Inc. mentioned that e.g. hired workers or subcontracted the building of the Arc?
You simply come up with that tale, because somehow you started to realize that Noah alone could never have build such a ship aka the Ark.
Have you ever worked on a Farm? if you would then you would also realize that the feeding of all these animals could never have been undertaken by simply Noah and his family. Absolutely NO WAY - it's therefore needless to even speculate about the amount of food that would have been needed to store. Especially since the according to the Bible - God never mentioned as to how long that rain and flood is supposed to last. !!
Not to mention where they got the Bamboo sprouts (need to be fresh every day) for e.g. Pandas or daily fresh Eucalyptus leaves for them Aussie Koalas.

It's a book - (written 3000 years ago taking the average none existing knowledge and education of adults into account) therefore no one expected questions from a matured and educated adult with the knowledge of the 19th century onward - BTW those who questioned it before the 19th century, were burned on the stake etc. Since that can't be done anymore - the Bible simply hasn't got any convincing answers to defend it's content.

For someone to believe in a God or a "Superior Being" is one thing - to base one's believes onto the Bible is something different altogether.

Discussion over on my part - thanks.

Sorry that these beliefs are so distressing to you.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, the Ark was an impossibility. Even with today's technology it'd be difficult to have such a thing being stable.

"Make the boat 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high"

I mean, such a boat would not be big enough for all the animals on the planet.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say God was going to bring the animals to the Ark.

Well, any story is going to have things that just have to fit to make it work. Based on SCIENCE which is what we're talking about, the Ark simply wasn't big enough.

So there's something wrong. Either it wasn't all animals. In which case how did new animals exist? Or it was all animals and the Ark was way, WAY too small.

A floating warehouse in the times we're talking about simply doesn't work. Boats were boats, and the largest wooden boat ever was 140 meters long or 450ft. Same length and it was a disaster boat.

"reflecting a cargo capacity of 303,600 cubic feet (8,600 m3)"

No way it would have been able to hold the number of animals required.

Yes, the Wyoming sand in 1924, 15 years after it was launched, and was built with modern knowledge and modern technology.

You really have to read the story more carefully as well as honestly. You are clinging to erroneous and fanciful ideas about the ark and the flood.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, the Wyoming sand in 1924, 15 years after it was launched, and was built with modern knowledge and modern technology.

And yet the ark, built much stronger, floating in calm water, wouldn't last for one year?

 

[Woodznutz]

That you don't question the "virility" of a supposed 130 year old Adam to produce an offspring is understood.

Men aged 90 father children today.

Do you question the biblical lifespan of post flood man at 70 to 80 years?

 

[surada]

And yet the ark, built much stronger, floating in calm water, wouldn't last for one year?

You're still treating a myth as if it's history. That's amazing for an adult.

 

[Woodznutz]

Therefore according to your own book - Adam and Eva were created around 4004 B.C.

That you don't question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 10000 B.C., having erected stone dwellings and stone carvings, is understood.
question this - despite the irrefutable existence of Humans dating back to 18000 B.C., having left beautiful cave drawings, is understood.

Genesis is a renewal of the surface of the earth along with man and animal life after the last ruin/restoration event. There may well have been 'humanoid' beings in the past, but they weren't created "in the image and likeness" of God, to have a spiritual relationship with God. Lots of history between verse one and verse three.

 

[Woodznutz]

You're still treating a myth as if it's history. That's amazing for an adult.

The account is written as actual history.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You really have to read the story more carefully as well as honestly. You are clinging to erroneous and fanciful ideas about the ark and the flood.

Am I? Doubtful.

What I think is the case is that we're talking about the science, but you don't really want to go there.