The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...

[Coyote]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

 

[Phoenall]

There were a handful of Jews in Palestine before 1850 and several hundred thousand Christians and Muslims.

It may have been small - I think the Ottoman census around then placed it around 15,000 but it was none the less a significant enough population not to be counted as "zero".

Try this for size

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Year	Jews	Christians	Muslims	Total
First half 1st century CE	Majority	–	–	~2,500
5th century	Minority	Majority	–	>1st century
End 12th century	Minority	Minority	Majority	>225
14th century before Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	225
14th century after Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	150
1533–1539	5	6	145	157
1690–1691	2	11	219	232
1800	7	22	246	275
1890	43	57	432	532
1914	94	70	525	689
1922	84	71	589	752
1931	175	89	760	1,033
1947	630	143	1,181	1,970

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All figures in thousandsand from the 12C to 1890 the majority of the muslims were Ottomans or Turkish as the arabs refused to take up the land. As yu can see by the figures the muslim population increased above that for natural progression and must be down to illegal immigration from outside Palestine. N0 3rd world nation could double its population in 90 years without immigration taking place.

Did you notice the note published at the top of your source?

This article or section possibly contains previously unpublished synthesis of published material that conveys ideas not attributable to the original sources. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. (September 2011)

AND your point being what . Did you go to the talk page and see what was being discussed

 

[Penelope]

TBH, The fascist Zionist are the problem in the world today. Middle America, we aren't even taking care of the America we have as we are too invested in the ME for Israel and SA and our neocons who love war.

I for one do not want 1 cent of my tax dollars going to Israel anymore.

Then move to palestine

Why would I move to Palestine?

 

[montelatici]

THIS is all that matters. The "ancient claims" mean nothing.


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST. End of story.

UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.

Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.

On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.

America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.

Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.

As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.

Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.

How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.

Why do you just spout propaganda? Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

 

[ChrisL]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

 

[ChrisL]

THIS is all that matters. The "ancient claims" mean nothing.


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST. End of story.

UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.

Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.

On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.

America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.

Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.

As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.

Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.

How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.

Why do you just spout propaganda? Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda. Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened. Also, this is an unbiased link. Too bad for you that Israel won. That's that. They won. The land is theirs. End of story.

Palestine 1918 to 1948

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.

 

[Coyote]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

Ah...I missed that post. Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.

Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Phoenall]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

First of it was not the British that gave the Jews anything, it was the LoN who were the legal land owners under customary International Law. The British were just caretakers of the land until such time as the inhabitants were able to show free will and the ability to govern themselves. The treaties have been produced hundreds of times that show the LoN allocating Palestine to the Jews as their RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME. The balfour declaration was not a handing over of any land just support for the forming of the Jews homeland.

 

[ChrisL]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

First of it was not the British that gave the Jews anything, it was the LoN who were the legal land owners under customary International Law. The British were just caretakers of the land until such time as the inhabitants were able to show free will and the ability to govern themselves. The treaties have been produced hundreds of times that show the LoN allocating Palestine to the Jews as their RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME. The balfour declaration was not a handing over of any land just support for the forming of the Jews homeland.

That's true. I was mistaken.

 

[ChrisL]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

Ah...I missed that post. Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.

Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sorry, I have to get back to work, but I'll read your post later.

 

[Phoenall]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

Ah...I missed that post. Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.

Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

No they were originally given all of Palestine later amended to what is now Palestine

See these

Ammended to this

 

[Coyote]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

Ah...I missed that post. Sometimes I dislike this new formatting.

Then what you are saying is that Israel was given the land as exists in the partition plan?
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

No they were originally given all of Palestine later amended to what is now Palestine

See these

Ammended to this

Based on what?

 

[Kondor3]

Indeed. Just as it has since 1948.

Indeed. Just ask the 2nd and 3rd and 4th -generation Israelis now in possession of that land.

Agree - when you get to that point, the original owners are dead and there is no sense in displacing people. But the land theft that occurred in 1967 and later - the original people are still alive, and return of the land or compensation should be addressed as well as a complete stop to more taking of land through "settlements".

Right of Return will no longer work, in connection with 1948-1949.

Return to the 1967 borders will no longer work, in connection with Israeli security and safety.

Compensation has marvelous possibilities.

But there is no longer enough land with which to make-up a sustainable nation-state.

That leaves population transfer - relocation - as the only practical outcome.

I know that this does not sit well, but the Losing Side is just going to have to suck it up, eventually, and move on.

If they did so voluntarily and with the blessing and large-scale assistance of the outside world, that would be best.

But, sooner or later, it's going to happen.

The Palestinians might as well leverage that as best they can, while they still can.

I sense time running out for the Palestinians to get anything whatsoever.

Yes there is.

Start negotiations at the 1967 borders and negotiate landswaps.

Israel needs to give up some things too.

Israel is the winner, Coyote.

Losers do not dictate terms.

The West Bank no longer exists as a coherent and contiguous Palestinian-controlled land mass.

Gaza can be overrun in a week, should the Isrealis put their mind to it.

They no longer have any motive to make concessions, and they've been burned on land-for-peace deals multiple times in the past.

Confidence is reasonably high that the time for such talk is behind us now.

And, if that turns out to be true, then the Losing Side is going to be sent packing, one way or another.

Why not get ahead of that trend and bend it to your (their) people's advantage?

But they won't.

The problem with that attitude is, they will never have peace unless they either negotiate for it or conduct an operation that will involve huge human rights violations and will be deplored by the international community of which they are part of. The political and possibly economic price would affect them for a long time. It would be comparable to Stalin's forced population shifts to dilute ethnic minorities. Not a favorable comparison.


The 1967 land borders would be a starting point - not an ending point. No one realistically expects Israel to keep that. So land swaps would be negotiated until a viable state and security situation is achieved for both sides. No one is going to get everything they want.

You and I are miles apart, on (1) whether land-for-peace swaps are still a viable idea and (2) whether those two parties can live peacefully side-by-side afterwards.

I see some logic in what you say, and I agree that arbitrary and unilateral action to relocate the Palestinians would open-up several cans of worms, but that would probably not be the case if the UN stepped-in, and relocated them rather than the Israelis - a UN backed by much of the world, including the US, for logistics and financial support during the transition and in the first decade or two beyond.

I don't see another way out - you believe you do - tomato, tomahhtoe... potato, potaaato... if we're lucky, we may live to see the end-game played out... I think it's coming sooner rather than later, for better or worse.

 

[montelatici]

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

I'm not sure about this...@RoccoR - if you have time could you clarify? Is it as simple as Britain gave it to the Jews?

You should read post 354. It explains what went on in detail.

No, post 354 is just a spouting of Zionist propaganda. My post recapitulates an Israeli Army intelligence report written at the time of the events.

 

[montelatici]

THIS is all that matters. The "ancient claims" mean nothing.


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST. End of story.

UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.

Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.

On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.

America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.

Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.

As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.

Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.

How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.

Why do you just spout propaganda? Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda. Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened. Also, this is an unbiased link. Too bad for you that Israel won. That's that. They won. The land is theirs. End of story.

Palestine 1918 to 1948

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.

My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations. You are posting propaganda pieces.

The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.

There really can't be any question of the facts.

Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?

 

[Beelzebub]

The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists. With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

 

[ChrisL]

THIS is all that matters. The "ancient claims" mean nothing.


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST. End of story.

UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.

Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.

On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.

America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.

Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.

As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.

Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.

How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.

Why do you just spout propaganda? Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda. Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened. Also, this is an unbiased link. Too bad for you that Israel won. That's that. They won. The land is theirs. End of story.

Palestine 1918 to 1948

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.

My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations. You are posting propaganda pieces.

The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.

There really can't be any question of the facts.

Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?

Are you saying this is not what happened? You are so full of it. Anyone can google it themselves to see. The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful. WHO do you think you're fooling?

 

[ChrisL]

The British - very pointedly - refused to hand over a state or a territory to the Zionist organisations, as that had never been the deal, and was only foisted upon the world by Zionist terrorists. With US & Russian support the UN then ratified what had already been done by force of arms, and granted a state to those same terrorists.

They were given the land by the British. If you want to argue that point, you can argue it all day long. It doesn't change the facts.

By that do you mean Israel, West Bank and Gaza?

If so - then I disagree. By what authority? Do you mean the Balfour Declaration?

I will be the first to admit I know less about that period of history than some here (and I suspect you also don't know as much).

The member here who has posted the most comprehensive understanding of it (even if I don't always agree with his opinions) is RoccoR and I respect his historical knowledge.

In this post of his - he described the what the Balfour Declaration and succeeding mandates/declarations meant: Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual Page 16 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

No where do I see where the entire area was given to the Jews or, it was it seems to be non-binding and superceded by other agreements.

They didn't want to give it up to either side, and they were made to on a mandate. It doesn't change the facts.

 

[ChrisL]

The Israelis were given the land when it was under control of the British, although all sides might not have found the situation favorable, the Israelis did NOT "steal" the land. It WAS given to them. Then they were attacked by the Arabs, and they WON the fight. They are under NO obligation to give anything to anyone.

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948
The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. In 1947, and again on May 14, 1948, the United States had offered de facto recognition of the Israeli Provisional Government, but during the war, the United States maintained an arms embargo against all belligerents.

Raising the Flag signified the Conclusion of the Conflict

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (also known as thePartition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948. Under the resolution, the area of religious significance surrounding Jerusalem would remain under international control administered by the United Nations. The Palestinian Arabs refused to recognize this arrangement, which they regarded as favorable to the Jews and unfair to the Arab population that would remain in Jewish territory under the partition. The United States sought a middle way by supporting the United Nations resolution, but also encouraging negotiations between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East.

The United Nations resolution sparked conflict between Jewish and Arab groups within Palestine. Fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army composed of volunteers from Palestine and neighboring Arab countries. These groups launched their attacks against Jewish cities, settlements, and armed forces. The Jewish forces were composed of the Haganah, the underground militia of the Jewish community in Palestine, and two small irregular groups, the Irgun, and LEHI. The goal of the Arabs was initially to block the Partition Resolution and to prevent the establishment of the Jewish state. The Jews, on the other hand, hoped to gain control over the territory allotted to them under the Partition Plan.

After Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the fighting intensified with other Arab forces joining the Palestinian Arabs in attacking territory in the former Palestinian mandate. On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of the former Palestinian mandate by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command. British trained forces from Transjordan eventually intervened in the conflict, but only in areas that had been designated as part of the Arab state under the United Nations Partition Plan and the corpus separatum of Jerusalem. After tense early fighting, Israeli forces, now under joint command, were able to gain the offensive.

See more . . . The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

 

[montelatici]

THIS is all that matters. The "ancient claims" mean nothing.


The Jews were GIVEN the state of Israel, which the Arabs did not like, fought with them over it, and LOST. End of story.

UNSCOP recommended to partition Palestine into two states – one Jewish and one Arab. This Partition Plan was rejected by all the Arab states. The resolution was passed in the United Nations with a vote of 33-13. Amazingly, both the United States and the Soviet Union supported the resolution, at the height of the Cold War. Russia believed that a Jewish state with many Socialist and Communist ideals would lead it eventually become part of the Soviet sphere of influence. This passing of the Partition Plan negatively affected over 1 million Sephardic Jews living in Arab lands, where the Muslims began turning against their Jewish citizens.

Since there was no U.N. provision to implement the Partition Plan, the Jews and Arabs were let to resolve the conflict themselves. Arab violence escalated and war quickly became the norm. By May of 1948, 1256 Jews, mostly civilians, had been killed by Arabs. As the war for Jewish survival increased, thousands of local Palestinians fled to neighboring Arab countries – believing that when the Jews were defeated they would return home.

On May 14, 1948, the British officially left Palestine and on the same day, the State of Israel was immediately declared by David Ben Gurion, acting as its provisional Prime Minister.

America was the first country to officially recognize the new State of Israel – eleven minutes after it was declared. U.S. President Harry Truman signed the letter of recognition – despite the objections by The United States Secretary of State George Marshall and the entire State Department.

Immediately after the declaration an all-out war broke out between the Jews and Arabs. Seven Arab armies attacked the new Jewish State – but were not united both militarily and politically. For example, the Arab League was established in order to counter The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem’s ambition to secure domination of Arab Palestine. At the same time, King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to merge Palestine with his kingdom. Eventually, the Arab forces began to lose the war.

As the war was raging the Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes but the Arab leadership forbade the Arabs to return or live in areas under Jewish rule.

Unfortunately, in one form or anther, the war and battles that began in 1948 have continue to this day.

How different the situation in the Middle East would have been today if the Arabs had opened their hearts to live in peace with their Jewish neighbors – and had accepted the UN Partition Plan, which so favorable to them.

Why do you just spout propaganda? Are really that thick that you believe we don't have access to the facts?

For example:

"Jewish leadership begged the local Palestinian Arabs not to abandon their homes"

Do you realize what a bunch of horseshit that is?

The facts:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."


The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

It isn't propaganda, but your links are certainly propaganda. Here is another link with the same exact information because this is EXACTLY how it happened. Also, this is an unbiased link. Too bad for you that Israel won. That's that. They won. The land is theirs. End of story.

Palestine 1918 to 1948

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.

My links are usually to official reports by the Mandatory to the League of Nations. You are posting propaganda pieces.

The fact is that European Jews implemented a plan to ethnically cleanse the non-Jews and were successful.

There really can't be any question of the facts.

Why would anyone recognize the establishment of a state created through their expulsion from their homes?

Are you saying this is not what happened? You are so full of it. Anyone can google it themselves to see. The above which I linked to is completely accurate and truthful. WHO do you think you're fooling?

It's propaganda it's not accurate at all. I provided a link to a scholarly work, not propaganda.