The West Shouldn't Allow Georgia To Be A Sacrificial Lamb For Russia

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So provide us with the list of all the countries we are propping up dictators with American troops. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

Well I don't know about all over the world but...

In the 1950's America removed a Democratically elected government and installed the Shah back in Iran, the Shah being a military dictator. We did this because the Iranian government wanted to nationalize it's oil fields.

As far as the situation with Georgia and Russia goes, the United States isn't able to be of much assistance. We're fighting two wars currently and using the rest of our resources to maintain the rest of our empire.

 

[editec]

Then we agree? S.O. had a right to be it's own country?

I don't.

Osettians came to Georgia in mideval times. It was GEORGIA then, and its still GEORGIA.

Ruaaia, on the other hand took over Geogia by force in the late 19th century.

It was never russia, (or the Soviety union) and it's STILL not Russia.

That said, there's damned little American can do about all this given the fact that we're spread thin militarily, politically and fiscally.

Diplomacy is the best bet Georgia has, methinks.

 

[editec]

AS to RGS's desire that we dicusss the various places that I think we're propping up dictatorships?

Let's take that to another thread, okay?

 

[Jeepers]

So provide us with the list of all the countries we are propping up dictators with American troops. I won't hold my breath waiting though.

Georgia is our ally, I think we should replace their entire military losses and sail the equipment in with a US battle Fleet. I think we should place US troops in Georgia and everywhere the Russians have a check point we put one ourselves. Every convoy to anywhere should be escorted by American troops and vehicles armed and willing to force the Russians to chose open war or leave the Country. Then when the Russians start shooting we can use the same excuse the whiners have used about Georgia, Russia started it!

Bit of a problem with that since our troops are on loan in Iraq...

 

[Jeepers]

Yes, the Georgians do, but we haven't the right or the abililty to fight their battles for them. Not to mention that since Georgia doesn't belong to NATO that we don't even have the obligation.

Up until las week they actually had boots on the ground in Iraq.. I'd say we owe em a little something. Not to mention, we trained their soldiers and they ran like little girls after holding off the army for a few hours.. kind of embarrassing for us..

 

[ABikerSailor]

Gunny, how in the hell do you propose that we assist Georgia, when the current Chimp in Charge is too fucking stupid to do anything? We went into the wrong country to avenge 9/11, we are spread too thin, and there isn't really a damn thing that we can do currently until the idiot in the White House leaves.

Yeah....Georgia is our ally, but we don't have anything that we can give to help them out.

 

[mightypeon]

Random remark:
Note to Southern (be they Ossetian or American) seperatists: Get Allied with Russia!
I bet Putin would enthusiastically support a renewed movement for the Souths independence.


Could not resist at that one.

 

[Inferno]

After the fiasco in Iraq it is tough for the US to take a moral high ground since we sank so low ourselves.

 

[editec]

There was never a nation called Ossetia...never that I know of at, least.

Ossetia is and has always been a region of Georgia.

The Ossetians came to the land called Georgia, a land controlled by the Georgians and they became part of that nation.

Georgia only became part of Imperial Russia by force, you know, and that happened around 1800

Now that Georgia is an independent nation again, I personally think that Ossetia should continue to be part of that nation, just as it had been for centuries before Russia took it over by force.*

* (the relationship of Georgia to Tsarist Russia is way more complex than I have time to explain, but Georgia was an independent nation, one with its own peers of the realm and its own unique history, and it was basically strong armed into becoming part of the Tsarist Russian Empire).

 

[mightypeon]

Well, they could have chosen between the Sultan and the Tzar and went with the Tzar.
The Caucasus was the Balkan of Asia, with a bunch of not really independent small states and major powers around it.

The closest thing to Ossetia would, in my eyes, be Taiwan.
Like Taiwan, Ossetia is, historically, a part of the country it is breaking away from.
However, in both cases the current incarnation of the gouverment of the host country never had de facto control over the break away province. Georgias gouverment never ruled south Ossetia (nor Abkhazia) since they split away from the SU just as the ChiComms never controlled Taiwan.

I mean, would there be any "Chinas territorial integrity must be preserved!" sayers if China would attack and invade Taiwan at the day of the Superbowl?

 

[Diuretic]

Sakashvilli fucked up big time. Let him eat it now.

 

[DiveCon]

Well I don't know about all over the world but...

In the 1950's America removed a Democratically elected government and installed the Shah back in Iran, the Shah being a military dictator. We did this because the Iranian government wanted to nationalize it's oil fields.

As far as the situation with Georgia and Russia goes, the United States isn't able to be of much assistance. We're fighting two wars currently and using the rest of our resources to maintain the rest of our empire.

WRONG
the Shah was ALREADY Shah
all we did was advise him to do what he already had the authority to do

 

[Sunni Man]

Georgia is just a little Israel. It is ruled by Zionist Jews. I wish Russia would just erase it from the map.

 

[DiveCon]

Georgia is just a little Israel. It is ruled by Zionist Jews. I wish Russia would just erase it from the map.

WHA??????????

um, have you seen their flag?

 

[sealybobo]

The west, including the Unisted States, is way to much of a bunch of pussies to do anything about this

Remember, everything is about money and power. We fucked with Iraq and that took balls when the rest of the world warned us not to. So we did anyways, and now is anyone shocked russia and china will make a power grab too.
I don't think we have the nerve to get involved, nor the interest. This was a conflict created by the gop, much like the iran hostage scandle. They were losing every issue and thought starting up the cold war would work. it hasn't. fuck georgia. that south essentia, or whatever it is called, can do whatever it wants to do. russia too.

so now the gop would call me a pussy and then I'd be weak on fighting communism. mccarthyism!

people really don't know their being manipulated.

 

[DiveCon]

Remember, everything is about money and power. We fucked with Iraq and that took balls when the rest of the world warned us not to. So we did anyways, and now is anyone shocked russia and china will make a power grab too.
I don't think we have the nerve to get involved, nor the interest. This was a conflict created by the gop, much like the iran hostage scandle. They were losing every issue and thought starting up the cold war would work. it hasn't. fuck georgia. that south essentia, or whatever it is called, can do whatever it wants to do. russia too.

so now the gop would call me a pussy and then I'd be weak on fighting communism. mccarthyism!

people really don't know their being manipulated.

yeah, we did Iraq alone :eyeroll:

 

[sealybobo]

yeah, we did Iraq alone :eyeroll:

England, poland. Did you ever see that list of who was helping us and how many troops from each country were there? it was pathetic. Yes, we basically went in with just england.

Or did you pay attention how one after another our alliies became the coalition of the unwilling?

I get the feeling you know the gop is fos and you just believe they will benefit you more than the dems will. you are wrong, but you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

 

[DiveCon]

England, poland. Did you ever see that list of who was helping us and how many troops from each country were there? it was pathetic. Yes, we basically went in with just england.

Or did you pay attention how one after another our alliies became the coalition of the unwilling?

I get the feeling you know the gop is fos and you just believe they will benefit you more than the dems will. you are wrong, but you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

well, you are entitled to your opinion, just as i am
however, it is MY opinion you are so far outside reality you dont know what the hell you are talking about

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

WRONG
the Shah was ALREADY Shah
all we did was advise him to do what he already had the authority to do

I didn't say the Shah wasn't the Shah, in fact I very cleverly referred to the Shah as the Shah. The link below sheds light on the situation.

New York Times Special Report: The C.I.A. in Iran

 

[DiveCon]

I didn't say the Shah wasn't the Shah, in fact I very cleverly referred to the Shah as the Shah. The link below sheds light on the situation.

New York Times Special Report: The C.I.A. in Iran

then how did we "install" him if he was already what he was?