The Virus in Washington DC

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I don't give a shit about what anyone did in the past. Cali asked a question about moving forward. I pointed out that the Tea Party movement is not a legitimate option and asked for additional options, MOVING FORWARD. Get it?

Taking off partisan blinders is part of moving forward...get it?

Are you trying to convince yourself? You may have to repeat it more than once.

I dont need to convince myself at all considering I know who I am and how I think.

My intent was to open your eyes a little bit as to how you are coming across in this thread.

 

[VaYank5150]

Why are Tea Party persons Kooks?

How many times do I have to explain why IT IS MY OPINION that these folks are kooks? Please see page 3 of this thread.

Now, to NamVets complaint...I never said that the Tea Partiers were the problem. I was merely trying to point out that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, too many people see the Tea Partiers as a viable avenue to force change. Since many people (myself included) see the Tea Party movement as too fractured, too hateful, too interested in their own personal agendas (no single message), and littered with kooks, I do not believe they are a viable avenue to force change in our government. Hence, I posed a question to the entire board asking for opinions on how we DO force change. End of story.

They aren't hateful.... they are undoubtedly angry. If you want to understand them look at their name..... TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY. For the most part they are middle America. They are just hard working people who see their taxes as being used to fund 'pet projects', special interests, and generally wasted while they struggle to pay their bills and put food on the table.

I know I said I don't care about what happened in the past....but where did these Tea Party people come from? Did they drop from the sky? Where were they all the while Bush and the GOP led Congress were spending like drunken sailors? I find it very strange that this group of people suddenly appeared out of nowhere immediately AFTER the GOP was thrown out of the WH.

 

[California Girl]

Why are Tea Party persons Kooks?

How many times do I have to explain why IT IS MY OPINION that these folks are kooks? Please see page 3 of this thread.

Now, to NamVets complaint...I never said that the Tea Partiers were the problem. I was merely trying to point out that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, too many people see the Tea Partiers as a viable avenue to force change. Since many people (myself included) see the Tea Party movement as too fractured, too hateful, too interested in their own personal agendas (no single message), and littered with kooks, I do not believe they are a viable avenue to force change in our government. Hence, I posed a question to the entire board asking for opinions on how we DO force change. End of story.

Exactly my point...it's your opinion and certainly entitled to it. There is nothing I can say that will change your opinion on that and I respect that. There is no compromising on this, no middle ground. I understand.

Now...what say you Cali Girl? I'm sure there are literally hundreds of issues that there will be NO compromise on. That's politics 2010.

Of course there are going to be issues that we don't find common ground on. That is the point of having different political parties.

But..... I would be prepared to bet that most of the smart posters would, in an ideal world, want to stop the corrupt practices of our system. In order to do that, we have got to stop considering ourselves as 'democrat' or 'republican'.... (fortunately I don't anyway) but those within the parties need to be prepared to make some hard choices to tell Washington that we've gone as far as we are prepared to go - as a country - with regard to forcing Washington to clean up.

In order to force change, we have to stop voting for a party. Either party.

 

[VaYank5150]

Taking off partisan blinders is part of moving forward...get it?

Are you trying to convince yourself? You may have to repeat it more than once.

I dont need to convince myself at all considering I know who I am and how I think.

My intent was to open your eyes a little bit as to how you are coming across in this thread.

I know PRECISELY how I am coming across. Just because I don't care for the Tea Party "movement" and do not believe them to be a viable avenue to affect change in Washington, does not make me partisan, as you are trying to label me.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

How many times do I have to explain why IT IS MY OPINION that these folks are kooks? Please see page 3 of this thread.

Now, to NamVets complaint...I never said that the Tea Partiers were the problem. I was merely trying to point out that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, too many people see the Tea Partiers as a viable avenue to force change. Since many people (myself included) see the Tea Party movement as too fractured, too hateful, too interested in their own personal agendas (no single message), and littered with kooks, I do not believe they are a viable avenue to force change in our government. Hence, I posed a question to the entire board asking for opinions on how we DO force change. End of story.

Exactly my point...it's your opinion and certainly entitled to it. There is nothing I can say that will change your opinion on that and I respect that. There is no compromising on this, no middle ground. I understand.

Now...what say you Cali Girl? I'm sure there are literally hundreds of issues that there will be NO compromise on. That's politics 2010.

Of course there are going to be issues that we don't find common ground on. That is the point of having different political parties.

But..... I would be prepared to bet that most of the smart posters would, in an ideal world, want to stop the corrupt practices of our system. In order to do that, we have got to stop considering ourselves as 'democrat' or 'republican'.... (fortunately I don't anyway) but those within the parties need to be prepared to make some hard choices to tell Washington that we've gone as far as we are prepared to go - as a country - with regard to forcing Washington to clean up.

In order to force change, we have to stop voting for a party. Either party.

True...but if we stop voting we defeat one of the basic rights of all Americans. All you have to have is one politician promise you a handout if your poor and you'll vote for them...the rest of what they do is for themselves and their own agrandizement...to find people who will NOT be at the beck and call of lobbyists is, at this point in our history, improbable. Laws would have to be passed and I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Since many people (myself included) see the Tea Party movement as too fractured, too hateful, too interested in their own personal agendas

Yeah, hanging on to one's hard earned money is VERY personal. Some of us still believe it is indeed.. OUR money. Unlike those that think it is the Federal Government's and we get to keep what we're told we can keep. Hence the movement. It is basically a clash between free market capitalism and Marxism. This is NOT A MARXIST COUNTRY and it was not founded to be such. Go start your own "Marxist Utopia" and let me know how it works for you.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And, BTW, you liberals are in no position to be calling anyone "hateful".

 

[California Girl]

How many times do I have to explain why IT IS MY OPINION that these folks are kooks? Please see page 3 of this thread.

Now, to NamVets complaint...I never said that the Tea Partiers were the problem. I was merely trying to point out that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, too many people see the Tea Partiers as a viable avenue to force change. Since many people (myself included) see the Tea Party movement as too fractured, too hateful, too interested in their own personal agendas (no single message), and littered with kooks, I do not believe they are a viable avenue to force change in our government. Hence, I posed a question to the entire board asking for opinions on how we DO force change. End of story.

They aren't hateful.... they are undoubtedly angry. If you want to understand them look at their name..... TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY. For the most part they are middle America. They are just hard working people who see their taxes as being used to fund 'pet projects', special interests, and generally wasted while they struggle to pay their bills and put food on the table.

I know I said I don't care about what happened in the past....but where did these Tea Party people come from? Did they drop from the sky? Where were they all the while Bush and the GOP led Congress were spending like drunken sailors? I find it very strange that this group of people suddenly appeared out of nowhere immediately AFTER the GOP was thrown out of the WH.

See, that's very much what I mean. You believe that this is a sudden shift that happened after Obama became POTUS. Fact is, the TEA parties started in 2004/5 - during the Bush administration. You just didn't hear about them because the media didn't cover them. Admittedly, they have increased in numbers and popularity but, honestly, they were there. I know this because my parents attended a TEA party in 2006. It is not about Obama. If it was, I would be as sceptical as you... and I would question their motives too. And I might consider that race was part of it.... BUT.... they were there - quietly building support and growing.... The catayst was not Obama - it was the recession that kicked them into high gear. It was the bail outs, the economic collapse, and the huge increases in public spending that drove them.... not Obama and certainly not his color or his creed.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Oh no, this is all because Obama is black... haven't you heard?

 

[California Girl]

And, BTW, you liberals are in no position to be calling anyone "hateful".

Can we knock off the whining please. I'm trying to have a decent, honest debate with anyone who wants to comment on the state of our system. I don't care if people are left or right - I want to see how many of us recognize that we're getting shafted by whatever administration is in power.

 

[California Girl]

Oh no, this is all because Obama is black... haven't you heard?

Seriously, take the partisan whining to another thread. Please.

 

[Darkwind]

I watched the new coverage of the Tea Party in Washington. "Too many" for me, meant MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy", or MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Where is Obama's Birth Certificate"?

Then you appear to have tunnel vision and will most likely not find any group to meet your expectations. In a movement with that many numbers, it is unreasonable not to expect a few loons to crash the party. That doesn't mean the rest should pack it up and go home.

Here's a better idea. Why not get better organized. Maybe even elect a leader. At the very least have SOMEONE to throw out the trash and stop have the Tea Party as a whole thought of as a bunch of kooks with tea bags dangling from the brims of hats. Do any of those people know how stupid and immature they look? Honestly?

You mean organize like a political party or something?

 

[California Girl]

Exactly my point...it's your opinion and certainly entitled to it. There is nothing I can say that will change your opinion on that and I respect that. There is no compromising on this, no middle ground. I understand.

Now...what say you Cali Girl? I'm sure there are literally hundreds of issues that there will be NO compromise on. That's politics 2010.

Of course there are going to be issues that we don't find common ground on. That is the point of having different political parties.

But..... I would be prepared to bet that most of the smart posters would, in an ideal world, want to stop the corrupt practices of our system. In order to do that, we have got to stop considering ourselves as 'democrat' or 'republican'.... (fortunately I don't anyway) but those within the parties need to be prepared to make some hard choices to tell Washington that we've gone as far as we are prepared to go - as a country - with regard to forcing Washington to clean up.

In order to force change, we have to stop voting for a party. Either party.

True...but if we stop voting we defeat one of the basic rights of all Americans. All you have to have is one politician promise you a handout if your poor and you'll vote for them...the rest of what they do is for themselves and their own agrandizement...to find people who will NOT be at the beck and call of lobbyists is, at this point in our history, improbable. Laws would have to be passed and I don't see that happening any time soon.

I am not, for one second, suggesting that we stop voting. I am suggesting that we stop voting for the "same old shit, different day" politicians.... unless that politician stands up and tells us exactly what he has done that was not in the best interests of his constituents. Otherwise, I think we should all start voting 'independent'. Send more non partisan politicians to Washington, kick out the incumbents - no matter which party they represent. That might tell Washington that 'WE SURROUND YOU".

 

[Darkwind]

Define "too many". Those who would use that lame ass excuse need to just step the hell up and join the cause and become the "new and improved face" of the movement. Let go of the stereotypes of Tea Partiers, because it is composed of people from all stripes.

I watched the news coverage of the Tea Party in Washington. "Too many" for me, meant MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy", or MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Where is Obama's Birth Certificate"?

I don't disagree that sometimes the signs in the protests were offensive. But I have seen equally offensive messages at left wing rallies and right wing rallies. The TEA parties are no different. They are not one voice - they are individual people with individual concerns. While I dislike and don't agree with the 'birthers', I do support their right to question. And, let's be honest, Obama could shut them up very easily by releasing his full records... But, that, to me is a distraction, not an issue.

Personally, I think we need to let go of some of the stupid stuff - the constant sniping, the ranting towards Bush, Cheney et al, the birth certificate, etc. All of these are NOT going to help us go forward - they only seek to divide. Which is why the media constantly play them up. The politicians - and the media - would prefer we concentrate on stupid non-issues so they can continue to rob us all.

We really need to be smarter than that. We need to not be distracted by some stupid sign and concentrate on what we all want. Decent, honest politicians who represent us.

This is a technique in which those in power remain in power. They do so by focusing their bases on petty issues and allowing them to form entrenched hatreds of each other. When they begin to hate each other they are no longer focusing upon the problem or paying attention to what they are doing to stay in power.

Blind hatred (and I know there are many who say they don't hate, yet they stay mired in the mud with the rest of us) to the opposition ensures that the status quo remains just that.

 

[California Girl]

I watched the new coverage of the Tea Party in Washington. "Too many" for me, meant MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy", or MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Where is Obama's Birth Certificate"?

Then you appear to have tunnel vision and will most likely not find any group to meet your expectations. In a movement with that many numbers, it is unreasonable not to expect a few loons to crash the party. That doesn't mean the rest should pack it up and go home.

Here's a better idea. Why not get better organized. Maybe even elect a leader. At the very least have SOMEONE to throw out the trash and stop have the Tea Party as a whole thought of as a bunch of kooks with tea bags dangling from the brims of hats. Do any of those people know how stupid and immature they look? Honestly?

Why be so obsessed about how they look? They were making a point. I thought it was funny! It was supposed to be funny. The TEA partiers aren't a 'party', they are a movement.

If we don't step away from the idea of two parties, we will not get the change we need. Personally, I don't care whether my representative wears a suit or jeans and a t-shirt, I just want that person to be honest.... even when the truth hurts.

 

[VaYank5150]

Then you appear to have tunnel vision and will most likely not find any group to meet your expectations. In a movement with that many numbers, it is unreasonable not to expect a few loons to crash the party. That doesn't mean the rest should pack it up and go home.

Here's a better idea. Why not get better organized. Maybe even elect a leader. At the very least have SOMEONE to throw out the trash and stop have the Tea Party as a whole thought of as a bunch of kooks with tea bags dangling from the brims of hats. Do any of those people know how stupid and immature they look? Honestly?

You mean organize like a political party or something?

That is PRECISELY what I mean. IF this movement is serious and has as much support as some on this board would like to believe, then why not?

 

[California Girl]

I watched the news coverage of the Tea Party in Washington. "Too many" for me, meant MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy", or MORE THAN ONE asshole holding up signs saying "Where is Obama's Birth Certificate"?

I don't disagree that sometimes the signs in the protests were offensive. But I have seen equally offensive messages at left wing rallies and right wing rallies. The TEA parties are no different. They are not one voice - they are individual people with individual concerns. While I dislike and don't agree with the 'birthers', I do support their right to question. And, let's be honest, Obama could shut them up very easily by releasing his full records... But, that, to me is a distraction, not an issue.

Personally, I think we need to let go of some of the stupid stuff - the constant sniping, the ranting towards Bush, Cheney et al, the birth certificate, etc. All of these are NOT going to help us go forward - they only seek to divide. Which is why the media constantly play them up. The politicians - and the media - would prefer we concentrate on stupid non-issues so they can continue to rob us all.

We really need to be smarter than that. We need to not be distracted by some stupid sign and concentrate on what we all want. Decent, honest politicians who represent us.

This is a technique in which those in power remain in power. They do so by focusing their bases on petty issues and allowing them to form entrenched hatreds of each other. When they begin to hate each other they are no longer focusing upon the problem or paying attention to what they are doing to stay in power.

Blind hatred (and I know there are many who say they don't hate, yet they stay mired in the mud with the rest of us) to the opposition ensures that the status quo remains just that.

That's a really good point. And it is kind of why I started this thread. I am tired of hearing about what Bush did or did not do. I am tired of hearing about 'birthers' and idiotic people who have every right to question stuff but apparently represent everyone who disagrees with the current administration.

I make no secret of the fact that I disapprove of this administration. But no one cares that I disapproved of the last one! Everyone assumes I'm a republican because I disagree with Obama.

I am not a Republican.

I am not a Democrat.

I am an American.

 

[VaYank5150]

Then you appear to have tunnel vision and will most likely not find any group to meet your expectations. In a movement with that many numbers, it is unreasonable not to expect a few loons to crash the party. That doesn't mean the rest should pack it up and go home.

Here's a better idea. Why not get better organized. Maybe even elect a leader. At the very least have SOMEONE to throw out the trash and stop have the Tea Party as a whole thought of as a bunch of kooks with tea bags dangling from the brims of hats. Do any of those people know how stupid and immature they look? Honestly?

Why be so obsessed about how they look? They were making a point. I thought it was funny! It was supposed to be funny. The TEA partiers aren't a 'party', they are a movement.

If we don't step away from the idea of two parties, we will not get the change we need. Personally, I don't care whether my representative wears a suit or jeans and a t-shirt, I just want that person to be honest.... even when the truth hurts.

Cali...let's be honest...a movement, in and of itself cannot really affect change (sorry, my OPINION again). I am SO with you about the two party system. We need once and for all to have a VIABLE third paty. IF we can get there, then we can get a 4th or 5th viable party. Eventually, voting along party lines will become meaningless, which I believe would be a good thing. But we have to start somewhere, and if, against my opinion, this Tea Party movement has enough support, then so be it. Legitimize them and let's move forward.

 

[Darkwind]

This is what happens when you are a known hyper-partisan.

Hyper-partisan as much as you VaYank...now address the question and quit deflecting.

Could you not, instead of jimping at VaYank, just try and explain how you see the TEA parties and allow him the opportunity to find out why you support them. None of us are perfect and God KNOWS that I jump at people too.... but try to explain it instead of jumping.

Personally, I think people call 'kook' at the TEA parties while having code pink in their camp should possibly not be so quick to label others as 'kooks by association'...However, I'm trying to get some idea of whether the left and the right could find common ground.

I still think we can, if enough of us want to.

But you see, that is exactly what starts the problems and divides each of us.

Why does anyone need to explain the tea party at all? There are going to be those who are not going to believe anything said about them. It is nothing more then mud in the hand.

Ignore the jabs at the tea party completely. After all, does the extreme lunatic wing of the Democrat party care at all what others think of them? Or do they just keep on keepin on?

Stay out of the mud and deal with the issues, not the organizations.

 

[Darkwind]

Here's a better idea. Why not get better organized. Maybe even elect a leader. At the very least have SOMEONE to throw out the trash and stop have the Tea Party as a whole thought of as a bunch of kooks with tea bags dangling from the brims of hats. Do any of those people know how stupid and immature they look? Honestly?

You mean organize like a political party or something?

That is PRECISELY what I mean. IF this movement is serious and has as much support as some on this board would like to believe, then why not?

And so you will always continue to do the bidding of those in D.C. The problem is the corruption and the issues.

The problem is NOT the tea party or how it looks to the left wing of the political spectrum.