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The Verse of the Sword

MuslimAgorist

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"9:5 Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

Sounds scary right? It's known as "The Verse of the Sword", and admittedly many Muslims have used this verse to justify their corrupt intentions. However, it does not establish a doctrine of perpetual violent jihad against all non-Muslims for all time, as the Anti-Muslim Brain Trust would have you believe. I will show this, and then we'll discuss some principles which I believe can be derived from this verse and it's context.

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Marc39

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The link is historically fallacious.

For example, Muhammad was not driven out of Mecca as suggested. Muhammad persecuted the Meccans as he insisted they convert to his fabricated scam of Islam and they rejected his cult.

Meccans were polytheists who did not give a hoot what religion Muhammad practiced, however, they were harrassed by the overbearing Muhammad who kept warning them of going to hell.

The Meccans went to Muhammad's uncle, the influential Abu Talib, to beg him to ask his nephew Muhammad to cease tormenting them. They said he was welcome to practice Islam and they should be allowed to practice their religions.

Muhammad refused to abide by the Meccans requests and eventually left Mecca for Medina, where ignorant Arabs were more receptive to his religious bullshit.

Under the Islamic system of abrogation, Sura 9:5, one of the subsequent verses "revealed" in the Quran, cancels out earlier verses that preach tolerance. The intolerance and violence of Surah 9:5 illustrates the dark side of Islam that Islamists and their apologists refuse to acknowledge.
 
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Kalam

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The link is historically fallacious.
Did you forget that this same routine of yours was shown to be false the first time you attempted to pass it off as a legitimate historical analysis? I suppose we shouldn't expect much from a pathological liar who claims to have a mansion near Mary J. Blige and pretends to have read nearly 10,000 pages of ahadith. Do you ever stop and wonder why nobody takes your nonsense seriously, you silly Jew? :rofl:

For example, Muhammad was not driven out of Mecca as suggested. Muhammad persecuted the Meccans as he insisted they convert to his fabricated scam of Islam and they rejected his cult.

Meccans were polytheists who did not give a hoot what religion Muhammad practiced, however, they were harrassed by the overbearing Muhammad who kept warning them of going to hell.

The Meccans went to Muhammad's uncle, the influential Abu Talib, to beg him to ask his nephew Muhammad to cease tormenting them. They said he was welcome to practice Islam and they should be allowed to practice their religions.

Muhammad refused to abide by the Meccans requests and eventually left Mecca for Medina, where ignorant Arabs were more receptive to his religious bullshit.
Muhammad was a member of the Quraysh.
By lineage, yes, and a member of the Banu Hashim at that. Tribal affiliations mean nothing compared to one's status as a Muslim, however.

The Quraysh simply wanted to practice their religion in Mecca in peace,
The Quraysh could not tolerate criticism of their false religion and responded to words with violence:

"When the apostle openly displayed Islam as God ordered him his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that they took great offense and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy, except those whom God had protected by Islam from such evil, but they were a despised minority." - Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, 166-167​


The Quraysh begged Abu Talib to let them kill Muhammad for criticizing their religion:

"They said, 'O Abu Talib, your nephew has cursed our gods, insulted our religion, mocked our way of life, and accused our forefathers of error; either you must stop him or you must let us get at him, for you yourself are in the same position as we are in opposition to him and we will rid you of him.' He gave them a conciliatory reply and a soft answer and they went away." - Ibn Ishaq, 167-168​

Islam and Muhammad (SAWS) were persecuted because they were contrary to the pagan barbarism that prevailed in Makkan society at the time.


"The apostle continued on his way, publishing God's religion and calling men thereto. In consequence his relations with the Quraysh deteriorated and men withdrew from him in enmity. They were always talking about him and inciting one another against him. Then they went to Abu Talib a second time and said, 'You have a high and lofty position among us, and we have asked you to put a stop to your nephew's activities but you have not done so. By God, we cannot endure that our fathers should be reviled, our customs mocked and our gods insulted. Until you rid us of him we will fight the pair of you until one side perishes,' or words to that effect. Abu Talib was deeply distressed at the breach with his people and their enmity but he could not desert the apostle and give him up to them." - Ibn Ishaq, 168

"Then the Quraysh incited people against the companions of the apostle that had become Muslims. Every tribe fell upon the Muslims among them, beating them and seducing them from their religion." - 170

"While they were talking thus the apostle appeared, and they leaped upon him as one man and encircled him, saying, 'Are you the one who said so-and-so against our gods and our religion?' The apostle said, 'Yes, I am the one who said that.' And I saw one of them seize his robe. Then Abu Bakr interposed himself, weeping and saying, 'Would you kill a man for saying Allah is my Lord?' Then they left him... Abu Bakr returned that day with the hair of his head torn. He was a hairy man and they had dragged him along by his beard." - 184

"The apostle had gone back to his house when he (Hamza ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib) passed by this woman, who asked him if he had heard of what Abu'l-Hakam ibn Hisham had done just recently to his (Hamza's) nephew, Muhammad; how he had found him sitting quietly there, and insulted him, and cursed him, and treated him badly, and that Muhammad had not answered a word." - 185

"Islam began to spread in Makkah among men and women of the tribes of Quraysh, though Quraysh were imprisoning and seducing as many of the Muslims as they could." - 187

"Then he ('Abdullah ibn Mas'ud) turned towards them as he read so that they noticed him, and they said, 'What on earth is this son of a slave-woman saying?' And when they realized that he was reading some of what Muhammad prayed, they got up and began to hit him in the face; but he continued to read so far as God willed that he should read. Then he went to his companions with the marks of their blows on his face. They said, 'This is just what we feared would happen to you.' He said, 'God's enemies were never more contemptible in my sight than they are now, and if you like I will go and do the same thing before them tomorrow.' They said, 'No, you have done enough, you have made them listen to what they don't want to hear.'" - 202-203

"Then the Quraysh showed their enmity to all those who followed the apostle; every clan which contained Muslims attacked them, imprisoning them, and beating them, allowing them no food or drink, and exposing them to the burning heat of Makkah, so as to seduce them from their religion. Some gave way under pressure of persecution, and others resisted them, being protected by God. Bilal, who was afterwards freed by Abu Bakr but at that time belonged to one of B. Jumah being slave-born, was a faithful Muslim, pure of heart. His father's name was Ribah and his mother was Hamama. Umayya ibn Khalaf ibn Wahb ibn Hudhafa ibn Jumah used to bring him out at the hottest part of the day and throw him on his back in the open valley and have a great rock put on his chest; then he would say to him, 'You will stay here until you die or deny Muhammad and worship al-Lat and al-Uzza.' He used to say while he was enduring this, 'One, one!' (expressing belief in one God.)" - 205

"The B. Makhzum used to take out 'Ammar ibn Yasir with his father and mother, who were Muslims, in the heat of the day and expose them to the heat of Makkah, and the Apostle passed by them and said, so I have hear, "Patience, O family of Yasir! Your meeting-place will be Paradise.' They killed his mother, for she refused to abandon Islam. It was that evil man Abu Jahl who stirred up the Makkans against them. When he heard that a man had become a Muslim, if he was a man of social importance and had relations to defend him, he reprimanded him and poured scorn on him, saying, 'You have forsaken the religion of your father who was better than you. We will declare you a blockhead and brand you as a fool, and destroy your reputation.' If he was a merchant he said, 'We will boycott your goods and reduce you to beggary.' If he was a person of no social importance, he beat him and incited people against him... I said to 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas, 'Were the polytheists treating them so badly that apostasy was excusable?' 'Yes, by God, they were,' he said, 'they used to beat one of them, depriving him of food and drink so that he could hardly sit upright because of the violence they had used on him, so that in the end he would do whatever they said.'" - 206-207​

Shall I continue?


The hijra to Madinah followed a smaller hijra of a few Muslims to Abyssinia; the Quraysh followed the Muslim emigrants all the way there simply so that they could bring them back by force and oppress them once more. The hijra to Makkah was undertaken by a far larger number of Muslims, including Muhammad (SAWS), in order to escape polytheist oppression once and for all. His reputation as a fair-minded settler of disputes earned him an invitation to the city by the Madinan community. The raids on Makkan caravans were not approved of by Muhammad (SAWS) until it was discovered that the Quraysh had been stealing and selling the property that Muslims had been forced to leave behind in Makkah. Tensions escalated and the Makkan army was eventually routed by a smaller and more ill-equipped force of believers, who went on to take Makkah.

and it was Muhammad who murdered female intellectuals and poets who criticized his repressive and violent belief system
Nobody was killed who did not incite violence against Muhammad (SAWS) or the community of believers. That is the recompense for those who threaten the existence of Islam.

and it was Muhammad who stole the land of Jews and Christians simply because they wished to practice their own religion.
War was not initiated with any group that did not declare hostility towards Islam or support others against it. If you can cite specific examples of this taking place, I'll be happy to clarify.

Under the Islamic system of abrogation, Sura 9:5, one of the subsequent verses "revealed" in the Quran, cancels out earlier verses that preach tolerance. The intolerance and violence of Surah 9:5 illustrates the dark side of Islam that Islamists and their apologists refuse to acknowledge.

A passage can only be regarded as abrogated if one can point to an explicit statement in which Muhammad or a sahabiyy mentions it and its abrogator specifically. Would you like to share one with us regarding 9:5?

Go back to trolling the Israel forum and advocating genocide, you lying Zionist leech. :lol:
 

Marc39

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Did you forget that this same routine of yours was shown to be false the first time you attempted to pass it off as a legitimate historical analysis?

The analysis in which I proved you know nothing about Islam and Muhammad? Yes, I remember vividly.

Your kinowledge is limited to desperately Googling and cutting and pasting.

Otherwise, you are oblivious the Islamic history.

I suppose we shouldn't expect much from a pathological liar who claims to have a mansion near Mary J. Blige and pretends to have read nearly 10,000 pages of ahadith. Do you ever stop and wonder why nobody takes your nonsense seriously, you silly Jew? :rofl:

You're losing it. Try to contain your Muhammadan temper. Fortunately, I cannot be beheaded by an irate Muhammadan.

You are PWNED.

The Quraysh could not tolerate criticism of their false religion and responded to words with violence

The Quraysh were sick and tired of Muhammad's taunting and his threats they would go to hell for not converting to his sick scam of Islam.

There is no evidence that Meccans initiated any violence against Muhammad.
Meccans were polytheists who were content for Muhammad to practice his fabricated religion as long as they could practice their religion.

Unfortunately for the Meccans, Muhammad took his vengeance out on them by raiding their caravans after he left Medina, stealing their "booty" and taking 20% for himself, which he conveniently heard "revealed" by Allah. Muhammad was really a criminal who used his fictitious invention of Allah to permit him to loot and steal.

Muhammad would not abide by the wishes of the Meccans and, thus, Muhammad left for Medina, where he scammed a bunch of ignorant Arabs.

Sura 9:5 was "revealed" (not really revealed, Muhammad fabricated all the revelations) while in Medina when Muhammad flipped out and grew into a terrorist, a murderer, a hater of Jews and Christians, a rapist, a child molester, a hijacker and an extortionist. Sura 9:5 abrogates and cancels the earlier Meccan verses when Muhammad was a religious leader.

As can be readily seen, Islamists become unhinged and lose their shit when the truth about Islam is revealed. They become so angry, they could murder those who criticize Islam.

This is Islam, the religion of "peace".
 

Marc39

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A few more peaceful Sword verses from the religion of peace and its hatred of non-Muslims and exhortations to murder and terrorize them...

Quran 3:151...
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Quran 2:191...
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

Quran 8:65...
O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand

Quran 8:12...
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger

Quran 66:9...
O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.

What a wonderful religion!
 
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Marc39

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War was not initiated with any group that did not declare hostility towards Islam or support others against it. If you can cite specific examples of this taking place, I'll be happy to clarify.

How sick.

Jews were hostile to Muhammad because Jews were happy with their legitimate religion and this crackpot Muhammad, who was kicked out of Mecca because of his mental illness, harrassed the Jews to convert to Islam.

So, you justify Muhammad going to war with the Jews merely for desiring to practice Judaism?

Sick, sick, sick. But, Islam hasn't changed since the 7th century. Today, Muslims are threatening the world with terrorism if they do not convert to Islam.

This is the sick and distorted mentality of Islamists.

The facts are that Muhammad cursed the Jews and proceeded to expel them from Arabia and behead them. He watched the beheading of 800 Jews from morning to night AND he watched along with his child wife, whom he married when she was just 6 years old.

Muhammad murdered Jews because he heard voice in his head from an angel named Gabriel that told him to kill them. Muhammad was psychotic.

Muhammad took the possessions and land of the Jews he expelled. He convenieintly heard voices from his invented Allah that it was ok to steal.

Muhammad was a murderer and a child molester and child abuser.

Muhammad went north from Medina to Khaybar and spared their lives, but, he forced them to give him half their land and possessions, which was extortion, so they could stay.

Muhammad was so hateful of Jews and Christians for rejecting his scam cult that his final words were uttered when he died in his infamous deathbed curse when he told his companions that Arabia must be free of Jews and Christians.

When Muhammad arrived in Medina, it was half Jewish.
By the time of Muhammad's death, Medina was Jew-free.

By the time of Caliph Umar, who succeeded Muhammad after Abu Bakr, ALL of Arabia was Jew-free and Christian-free.

Today, Saudi Arabia remains Jew-free and Christian-free. In fact, non-Muslims are prohibited from entering Macca and Medina, a racist, apartheid system.
 
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Kalam

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The analysis in which I proved you know nothing about Islam and Muhammad? Yes, I remember vividly.

Your kinowledge is limited to desperately Googling and cutting and pasting.

Otherwise, you are oblivious the Islamic history.

"Google":
life.jpg


Copy-pasters who steal their arguments from Daniel Pipes and "Answering Islam" (ie: your kind) are a dime a dozen on the internet, Shlomo. Maybe I'd take your comments about my "kinowledge" seriously if you could speak English coherently. :rofl:

You're losing it. Try to contain your Muhammadan temper. Fortunately, I cannot be beheaded by an irate Muhammadan.

You are PWNED.
Tell it to Mary J, leech. :lol:

There is no evidence that Meccans initiated any violence against Muhammad.
"The apostle continued on his way, publishing God's religion and calling men thereto. In consequence his relations with the Quraysh deteriorated and men withdrew from him in enmity. They were always talking about him and inciting one another against him. Then they went to Abu Talib a second time and said, 'You have a high and lofty position among us, and we have asked you to put a stop to your nephew's activities but you have not done so. By God, we cannot endure that our fathers should be reviled, our customs mocked and our gods insulted. Until you rid us of him we will fight the pair of you until one side perishes,' or words to that effect. Abu Talib was deeply distressed at the breach with his people and their enmity but he could not desert the apostle and give him up to them." - Ibn Ishaq, 168​

The person who dropped you as a child must feel extremely guilty. Let's see you post evidence from the ahadith or a legitimate account of the sirat proving that Muhammad (SAWS) initiated violence against the Makkans in the beginning.

Sura 9:5 abrogates and cancels the earlier Meccan verses when Muhammad was a religious leader.
According to which tradition of Muhammad (SAWS) or the sahaba?

As can be readily seen, Islamists become unhinged and lose their shit when the truth about Islam is revealed. They become so angry, they could murder those who criticize Islam.
Thanks for putting the Zionist love affair with dishonesty on public display again, child killer. Each keystroke of yours benefits Islam and damages the cause of our enemies more than you could imagine. :lol:
 

Kalam

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War was not initiated with any group that did not declare hostility towards Islam or support others against it. If you can cite specific examples of this taking place, I'll be happy to clarify.

How sick.

Jews were hostile to Muhammad because Jews were happy with their legitimate religion and this crackpot Muhammad, who was kicked out of Mecca because of his mental illness, harrassed the Jews to convert to Islam.

So, you justify Muhammad going to war with the Jews merely for desiring to practice Judaism?

Sick, sick, sick. But, Islam hasn't changed since the 7th century. Today, Muslims are threatening the world with terrorism if they do not convert to Islam.

This is the sick and distorted mentality of Islamists.

The facts are that Muhammad cursed the Jews and proceeded to expel them from Arabia and behead them. He watched the beheading of 800 Jews from morning to night AND he watched along with his child wife, whom he married when she was just 6 years old.

Muhammad murdered Jews because he heard voice in his head from an angel named Gabriel that told him to kill them. Muhammad was psychotic.

Muhammad took the possessions and land of the Jews he expelled. He convenieintly heard voices from his invented Allah that it was ok to steal.

Muhammad was a murderer and a child molester and child abuser.

Muhammad went north from Medina to Khaybar and spared their lives, but, he forced them to give him half their land and possessions, which was extortion, so they could stay.

Muhammad was so hateful of Jews and Christians for rejecting his scam cult that his final words were uttered when he died in his infamous deathbed curse when he told his companions that Arabia must be free of Jews and Christians.

When Muhammad arrived in Medina, it was half Jewish.
By the time of Muhammad's death, Medina was Jew-free.

By the time of Caliph Umar, who succeeded Muhammad after Abu Bakr, ALL of Arabia was Jew-free and Christian-free.

Today, Saudi Arabia remains Jew-free and Christian-free. In fact, non-Muslims are prohibited from entering Macca and Medina, a racist, apartheid system.

Looks like you missed something, Jewboy.
 

Marc39

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Looks like you missed something, Jewboy.

Looks like you're a true Jew-hating Muhammadan. You're mentally ill, like Muhammad.

Quran 5:60...
Let me tell you who are worse in the sight of GOD: those who are condemned by GOD after incurring His wrath until He made them [Jews] monkeys and pigs, and the idol worshipers. These are far worse, and farther from the right path

You are sick and in need of immediate psychological counseling, Muhammadan.
 

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Looks like you missed something, Jewboy.

Have you found any Jews hiding behind the stones, angry, Jew-hating Muhammadan?

Sahih Bukhari...
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.
 

Kalam

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Thanks for playing! Sorry, but I can't offer a consolation prize other than this little reminder of your kosher hatred of Zionism's least favorite ethnic group:

Were I PM, I'd stomp out every last Pallie man, woman and child. The world would be a better place.
 

Marc39

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Looks like you missed something, Jewboy.

Looks like Muslims have missed an education.
According to the Arab League, one-third of all Arabs are illiterate, over 100 million Arabs.
One-half of all Arab women are illiterate.

Looks like Muslims miss economic success.
25 Arab countries combined have the GDP of Spain.
Rampant poverty and starvation exists in the Arab and Muslims worlds.

Looks like Muslims miss accomplishment in life (Except, for terrorism)
1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world: Only 3 Muslims have won Nobel Prizes

Only 13 million Jews in the world: 160 Jews have won Nobel Prizes.

Muhammad was an illiterate, cave-dwelling loser and 1400 years later, so, too, are Muslims today.
 

Kalam

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Nobody here cares about the statistics you pull out of your ass. Try sharing them with Mary J or those Palestinian children you want to kill.
 

Marc39

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Thanks for playing! Sorry, but I can't offer a consolation prize other than this little reminder of your kosher hatred of Zionism's least favorite ethnic group:

You're losing your shit, again, over the Jews, Muhammadan. Jealous that Jews have real prophets, unlike your fake prophet who ripped off Judaism and married a 6 year-old girl and murdered, terrorized, hijacked, extorted, raped and looted?

Perhaps, you need to convert from Islam, Muhammadan, since you're so ashamed.

Jews have always been educated, successful and prosperous.

Arabs and Muslims have always been ignorant, unsuccessful, backward nomads. Today, Muslims and Arabs are famous only for terrorism.

Deal with your genetic inferiority, Muhammadan. Allahu Akbar! LOL LOL LOL
 

Kalam

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Deal with your genetic inferiority, Muhammadan. Allahu Akbar! LOL LOL LOL

Priceless! That's going on the wall right with the other one. Thanks. :rofl:
 

Marc39

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Nobody here cares about the statistics you pull out of your ass. Try sharing them with Mary J or those Palestinian children you want to kill.

You are flailing, Muhammadan.

You're becoming unglued over what your scam religion and your charlatan, mentally ill fake prophet, Muhammad, are really all about.

The Meccans laughed Muhammad out of Mecca because they knew he was a whackjob.

Today, 1.5 billion Muslims are duped into following the religion fabricated by a mass murderer, a terrorist, a hijacker, a womanizer, a child molester and a pirate.
 

Kalam

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I've already gained more from this thread than I expected to, so I won't be disappointed if you want to call it quits. If you'd like to provide me with even more material, on the other hand, please feel free to continue. :lol:
 

Marc39

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Deal with your genetic inferiority, Muhammadan. Allahu Akbar! LOL LOL LOL

Priceless! That's going on the wall right with the other one. Thanks. :rofl:

Muhammad sexually molesting a 6 year old little girl is pricelessly sick and deviant, Muhammadan. After Muhammad climaxed, he made his baby wife clean the semen off his pants.

Bukhari V1B4N229...
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to wash the traces of semen from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it.

This is the creep Muslims call The Perfect Man.

The Perfect Pervert.
 

Marc39

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Bukhari V1B4N231...
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar: I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible.

Aisha was Muhammad's 6 year-old wife. Muhammad was 52 years old when he married Aisha. Aisha was too young to even menstruate, so, the child molester and fake prophet Muhammad got off by rubbing himself against Aisha's thighs. After climaxing in his pants, he made Aisha clean them. Sick.

This is the man Muslims look up to as The Perfect Man.

The Perfect Deviant.
 
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